Chloroquine phosphate during QT?

[coolxborg]

A few days ago I read on here that CP (chloroquine phosphate) is good for treating velvet. Ive also read that some use it during QT.

Is this a good or bad idea for beginners to do? Or is it unnecessary and only needed for treatment?

If good, Im planning to do this after purchasing fish:
- TTM - 12 days
- Prazipro - 2 weeks
- CP - 2 weeks

Is that fine? or too stressful for fish?

[RussIV]

Originally Posted by coolxborg

A few days ago I read on here that CP (chloroquine phosphate) is good for treating velvet. Ive also read that some use it during QT.

Is this a good or bad idea for beginners to do? Or is it unnecessary and only needed for treatment?

If good, Im planning to do this after purchasing fish:
- TTM - 12 days
- Prazipro - 2 weeks
- CP - 2 weeks

Is that fine? or too stressful for fish?

just dump them in tap water for 15 minutes and call it a day.

they are fish. they arent astronauts decompressing from the apollo missions.

[coolxborg]

Thanks for the sound advise.

[Saltliquid]

???? what the! astronauts??
Chloroquine and Copper chloride both work good and great for QT.
You are planning on doing it right, good on you, i mean why would you quarantine anything unless it may have something that may harm your tank life once introduced, so then it does have something and shows in QT, what then, treatment!!!
By treating anyway you are achieving far more then most would.
Read up on freshwater dips, they are usually great for killing your fish.

[RussIV]

Originally Posted by liquidg

???? what the! astronauts??
Chloroquine and Copper chloride both work good and great for QT.
You are planning on doing it right, good on you, i mean why would you quarantine anything unless it may have something that may harm your tank life once introduced, so then it does have something and shows in QT, what then, treatment!!!
By treating anyway you are achieving far more then most would.
Read up on freshwater dips, they are usually great for killing your fish.

i really hate disinformation.

please link these studies. a simple google for fresh water dips shows videos, how-tos, and everything in between.

to the op:
qt is fine as many parasites take 2 weeks to incubate and i was being fecitious. i would think a copper based med would be fine, however ive seen fish die to it if improperly administered. (like fw dips)

to each their own

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by RussIV

just dump them in tap water for 15 minutes and call it a day.

they are fish. they arent astronauts decompressing from the apollo missions.

FW dips are useful against flukes, but not against ich or velvet.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by coolxborg

A few days ago I read on here that CP (chloroquine phosphate) is good for treating velvet. Ive also read that some use it during QT.

Is this a good or bad idea for beginners to do? Or is it unnecessary and only needed for treatment?

If good, Im planning to do this after purchasing fish:
- TTM - 12 days
- Prazipro - 2 weeks
- CP - 2 weeks

Is that fine? or too stressful for fish?

You will get lots of divergent opinions on this. My own, and I have changed my views over the last year, is that prophylactic treatment IS a good idea. TTM and CP will both treat ich, so if you plan the latter the former is unnecessary. My own QT protocol is:

1. Nitrofuracin green powder for two weeks
2. Cp for four weeks
3. Two rounds of prazi
4. Observe for two weeks

If a fish shows disease symptoms within the first two weeks, I go to CP right away. I will do FW dips if flukes present, but not otherwise.

[RussIV]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

FW dips are useful against flukes, but not against ich or velvet.

where does this misinformation come from?

here is a crash course....

http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/marinevelvet/

if you suspect velvet, not only will they pop off, you could add a dose of hydrogen peroxide to the bath.

it also works for ich (the first stages)

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by RussIV

just dump them in tap water for 15 minutes and call it a day.

they are fish. they arent astronauts decompressing from the apollo missions.

Seriously? TTM +prazi followed by at least 4 weeks of observation.

[coolxborg]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

You will get lots of divergent opinions on this ... TTM and CP will both treat ich, so if you plan the latter the former is unnecessary.

I guess this is the part that I need some clarification on (perhaps why you said I will get lots of different opinions). Initially, I thought I could just treat with CP and no longer perform TTM. However, I read somewhere that TTM is mainly used to treat Ich and while CP could treat Ich, its more designed for velvet?

From your process though, you treat CP for four weeks. I think in one of Steve's (snorvich) post, he mentioned to treat 14 days for velvet and 30 days for Ich. So i guess thats why youre doing 4 weeks?

What's Nitrofuracin green powder? I could probably google. Haha.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by RussIV

where does this misinformation come from?

here is a crash course....

http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/marinevelvet/

if you suspect velvet, not only will they pop off, you could add a dose of hydrogen peroxide to the bath.

it also works for ich (the first stages)

Actually that is incorrect. A fresh water dip has no effect on cryptocaryon irritans. It will temporarily ameliorate the symptoms of velvet but not cure it. It is useful at diagnosing flukes. Also, there are a fair number of errors in the article quoted.

[snorvich]

CP is excellent for treating amyloodinium and is the treatment of choice. For ich, four weeks will be successful much of the time but the variability of the back end of the life cycle makes it iffy some of the time.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by RussIV

where does this misinformation come from?

here is a crash course....

http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/marinevelvet/

if you suspect velvet, not only will they pop off, you could add a dose of hydrogen peroxide to the bath.

it also works for ich (the first stages)

Nice. If you are going to cite an article, at least pick one that actually supports what you are arguing Talk about misinformation ...... Lest somebody new to the hobby buy into 'just dump them in tap water for 15 minutes and call it a day' , consider ....

1. The article is from 2007 ..... 2007 .... in the intervening 8 years, a lot has been learned about how these parasites infect our tanks.
2. It is clearly noted that 'Once in the quarantine tank the (FW) treatment should be repeated on days 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 & 11, so it's NOT one and done.
3. Further, 'One of the most important things about a freshwater dip is that it will buy you some time to start another treatment or to set up a quarantine tank as even a very badly infected fish can lose most of its parasite in a few minutes and improve quite dramatically', thus supporting what Steve notes.
4. Finally, 'NB A freshwater dip is a pretty stressful process and is not advisable for very delicate or very ill fish'; maybe analogous to an astronaut after all.

I'm happy to entertain any better 'proof' you might be able to google-up. Until then, I believe the 'misinformation' is clearly all yours.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by coolxborg

I guess this is the part that I need some clarification on (perhaps why you said I will get lots of different opinions). Initially, I thought I could just treat with CP and no longer perform TTM. However, I read somewhere that TTM is mainly used to treat Ich and while CP could treat Ich, its more designed for velvet?

From your process though, you treat CP for four weeks. I think in one of Steve's (snorvich) post, he mentioned to treat 14 days for velvet and 30 days for Ich. So i guess thats why youre doing 4 weeks?

What's Nitrofuracin green powder? I could probably google. Haha.

I think the use of CP for the treatment of ich is fairly 'new'. I have used it with success on infections, but as noted, for a full four weeks. NGP is a blend of methylene blue and a pair of broad spectrum antibiotics and is excellent for easing the transition of a new fish. Helps with ammonia burn, any mild bacterial infections and seems to have a placating effect on the fish.

[RussIV]

Originally Posted by snorvich

Actually that is incorrect. A fresh water dip has no effect on cryptocaryon irritans. It will temporarily ameliorate the symptoms of velvet but not cure it. It is useful at diagnosing flukes. Also, there are a fair number of errors in the article quoted.

i believe you need to stop pretending you know what you are talking about

https://archive.is/HET7n

white papers are littered in the scientific community. also chlorine of 10 ppm is also effective (tap water)

-colorni 1985-1987

[RussIV]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Nice. If you are going to cite an article, at least pick one that actually supports what you are arguing Talk about misinformation ...... Lest somebody new to the hobby buy into 'just dump them in tap water for 15 minutes and call it a day' , consider ....

1. The article is from 2007 ..... 2007 .... in the intervening 8 years, a lot has been learned about how these parasites infect our tanks.
2. It is clearly noted that 'Once in the quarantine tank the (FW) treatment should be repeated on days 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 & 11, so it's NOT one and done.
3. Further, 'One of the most important things about a freshwater dip is that it will buy you some time to start another treatment or to set up a quarantine tank as even a very badly infected fish can lose most of its parasite in a few minutes and improve quite dramatically', thus supporting what Steve notes.
4. Finally, 'NB A freshwater dip is a pretty stressful process and is not advisable for very delicate or very ill fish'; maybe analogous to an astronaut after all.

I'm happy to entertain any better 'proof' you might be able to google-up. Until then, I believe the 'misinformation' is clearly all yours.

anyone with ich can observe it themselves. if you have any peer reviewed papers on the matter, i will entertain it. however, i will stick with the phds on the subject, not a hobbyist. (with all due respect)

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by RussIV

anyone with ich can observe it themselves. if you have any peer reviewed papers on the matter, i will entertain it. however, i will stick with the phds on the subject, not a hobbyist. (with all due respect)

Actually, that is also incorrect. Ich can be present in the gills with no visible symptoms. Your original article was not written by a peer reviewed Phd.

[RussIV]

Originally Posted by snorvich

Actually, that is also incorrect. Ich can be present in the gills with no visible symptoms. Your original article was not written by a peer reviewed Phd.

was written by a phd with numerous references to peer reviewed works if you looked at the bottom. They were not cited for their health. try again

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by RussIV

anyone with ich can observe it themselves. if you have any peer reviewed papers on the matter, i will entertain it. however, i will stick with the phds on the subject, not a hobbyist. (with all due respect)

.... entertain them .... not it .....

I wonder if said gaggle of PhD's would stand by all of the 'conclusions' in that article today. If you are going to attempt to appear informed on this topic I suggest you cite better research examples.

Unfortunately it thus becomes hard for the newcomer to know what advice to follow and what to ignore. My suggestion to anyone new is to spend some time on the board, read what folks have had to say over a longer period of time, and I think the 'wheat' becomes clear from the 'chaff'.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by RussIV

was written by a phd with numerous references to peer reviewed works if you looked at the bottom. They were not cited for their health. try again

There was no author cited nor were works cited. By the way, when new to a hobby board, insulting those that have been there a long time will not make you popular.

[Sk8r]

Somewhere in file I have a Scientific American cite for an article that proves Mr. Edison's lightbulbs are not economically viable. Check for currency re dates of supporting articles.

This technical discussion, if held at all, should be held in Advanced Topics, not in the NTTH forum, where people are simply seeking a safe procedure for their first experience in marine tanks.

And it should be held POLITELY, avoiding the use of the word 'you.'

[BrianD]

RussIV, perhaps your manner of discourse is acceptable in other forums you may frequent. I will give you advance warning that it is not acceptable on Reef Central.