Basement Frag / Reef Room Considerations

[jmatt]

Hello all,

I am contemplating getting back into the hobby after 20 years. I think I have a few of the important requirements:

1. Some basic experience with a reef tank (mine was pretty darn nice back in the day)
2. Plenty of room in the basment, a 20' x 14' space
3. A wife that would love to see a DT back in the house someday -- so key
4. A modest budget, perhaps $5k to start

Although it is very early in the planning stages (and I will be going slow) I was hoping to get some advice on a basement reef room layout so I can avoid room design pitfalls. What to put where? I'd like to avoid someday saying "Darn it! If only I had..."

The idea is frag space and sumps in the basement and eventually a DT upstairs. I was shocked when the wife said we could get rid of the dining room china cabinet and replace it with a DT.

The space has:

1. HVAC (no thermostat in the space)
2. A basement half-window for ventilation
3. Bare concrete floor and walls, top and right side of diagram, (yes, I will raise sumps so they don't sit on the concrete)
4. A water line coming from the water softener

I plan on adding all of the walls and 36" door on the left and bottom of the diagram. The furnace will be boxed out of the space. The well tank (top) will simply be curtained off for aesthetics. The space is large enough that I could fit freestanding frag and grow out tanks in the middle of it... I would love shallow tanks I could easily access from all four sides...

Questions (and please jump in with stuff I haven't thought of):

1. Linoleum on the bare floor or do I need a subfloor?
2. Okay to leave the concrete walls or finish them with stud and sheetrock? Not finishing makes it easy to add more plumbing and electrical
3. Eventually, I would like a DT upstairs plumbed into this setup, pipes can run up to it from the lower left orange corner of the diagram
4. I plan on a sink and counter area, should I run hot water to the space?
5. There's no drain, I will have to pump out to the house plumbing
6. Open rafters above, no insulation in place

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pictures upload[/IMG]

[toothybugs]

Your sump and tanks will kick off a lot of humidity - will mold be a problem or are you sufficiently ventilated?

You might enjoy having a line split off your sink to run RODI without occupying your faucet. I don't know that hot water will be needed but it's certainly nice.

[ericarenee]

Originally Posted by jmatt

Hello all,

I am contemplating getting back into the hobby after 20 years. I think I have a few of the important requirements:

1. Some basic experience with a reef tank (mine was pretty darn nice back in the day)
2. Plenty of room in the basment, a 20' x 14' space
3. A wife that would love to see a DT back in the house someday -- so key
4. A modest budget, perhaps $5k to start

1. HVAC (no thermostat in the space)
2. A basement half-window for ventilation
3. Bare concrete floor and walls, top and right side of diagram, (yes, I will raise sumps so they don't sit on the concrete)
4. A water line coming from the water softener

I plan on adding all of the walls and 36" door on the left and bottom of the diagram. The furnace will be boxed out of the space. The well tank (top) will simply be curtained off for aesthetics. The space is large enough that I could fit freestanding frag and grow out tanks in the middle of it... I would love shallow tanks I could easily access from all four sides...

Questions (and please jump in with stuff I haven't thought of):

1. Linoleum on the bare floor or do I need a subfloor?
   
   I would epoxy the floor then use Rubber floor tiles over them in your walking paths. You can leave it bare if you wish. No matter what you will get water on them from time to time..
   
2. Okay to leave the concrete walls or finish them with stud and sheetrock?
   
   Again Mold Resistance Paint. If you are in a area where heating or cooling the basement is a issue then you could consider framing it in .. If so use DENSE Glass or DuroRock not drywall in the areas around the tanks and 12 inches all the way around the room on floor .
   
   
   Not finishing makes it easy to add more plumbing and electrical
3. Eventually, I would like a DT upstairs plumbed into this setup, pipes can run up to it from the lower left orange corner of the diagram
4. I plan on a sink and counter area, should I run hot water to the space?
   I would for sure run hot and cold water.. Cleaning stuff in ice cold water would be no fun and less effective
   
5. There's no drain, I will have to pump out to the house plumbing
   There are basement sewage / Gray water pump systems . The cheapest is to use the ones like at lowes where you raise that area up on a platform and there is a flat tank with a raised tank in the back for the pump..... just google basement sewage sump..
   
6. Open rafters above, no insulation in place
   
   I Have only the ceilings insulated in the area of our basement where there are bedrooms just to keep noise down .

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pictures upload[/IMG]

[thegrun]

Linoleum on the bare floor or do I need a subfloor?
Linoleum or a good concrete sealer is all you need.

Okay to leave the concrete walls or finish them with stud and sheetrock?
You do not need sheetrock, but I would paint the walls near the tank/sump with a good epoxy paint.

I plan on a sink and counter area, should I run hot water to the space?
While hot water isn't necessary, it is nice to have. If it isn't too much extra work and expense, I would run a hot water line.
There's no drain, I will have to pump out to the house plumbing
Open rafters above, no insulation in place
No problem with open studs.

As posted above I would think about adding an exhaust fan, something in the 200 cfm range should be fine.

[jmatt]

Reserved so I can take everyone's ideas and format into an outline. That way people looking for this kind of stuff can find it all in one post rather than having to read the entire thread.

[jmatt]

Hmm, I could have that door open outward so that it doesn't bang into whatever I put in that corner of the room.

Or maybe bi-fold doors could allow for a large 48" opening. And increased airflow if they're louvered. Although it wouldn't be as quiet as a solid core 36" door.

So which do you find more necessary? Easy access to move large items or a door designed for quiet?

[jmatt]

Originally Posted by toothybugs

Your sump and tanks will kick off a lot of humidity - will mold be a problem or are you sufficiently ventilated?

You might enjoy having a line split off your sink to run RODI without occupying your faucet. I don't know that hot water will be needed but it's certainly nice.

There's a basement window in the space (top right wall) so I can probably have all the ventilation I want.

There's an HVAC conduit parallel to the water line on the right wall, so I can put a small vent on it and deliver climate-controlled air.

And I have a basement dehumidifier that I'm not presently using, so I can hang that somewhere in the space as well.

And yeah, if I'm running a sink it would be dumb not to plumb in hot water.

[ericarenee]

Originally Posted by jmatt

There's a basement window in the space (top right wall) so I can probably have all the ventilation I want.

There's an HVAC conduit parallel to the water line on the right wall, so I can put a small vent on it and deliver climate-controlled air.

And I have a basement dehumidifier that I'm not presently using, so I can hang that somewhere in the space as well.

And yeah, if I'm running a sink it would be dumb not to plumb in hot water.

ONE more thing You must used vents or louvered doors on the furnace room.

[jml1149]

Originally Posted by jmatt

There's a basement window in the space (top right wall) so I can probably have all the ventilation I want.

There's an HVAC conduit parallel to the water line on the right wall, so I can put a small vent on it and deliver climate-controlled air.

And I have a basement dehumidifier that I'm not presently using, so I can hang that somewhere in the space as well.

And yeah, if I'm running a sink it would be dumb not to plumb in hot water.

I have found that the CO2 concentrations in the basement were much higher than upstairs. So I replaced a 32x14 window near the tank and leave it open. This made no difference. I put an air pump in the window and tied it to the skimmer, this also made no difference. In this type of weather, I just don't think there's enough air exchange, or the air is exchanging in the wrong direction. So I ran a tube through the wall, put the pump outside, closed the window, and ran this to my skimmer. This has made a huge difference in Ph.

My suggestion would be to plan for some sort of active exchange of outside air, not just passively leaving the window open.

I also tried a DIY CO2 scrubber, which also worked very well. But it may get expensive to run, depending on how much air you put through it.

Just my 2p.

[ericarenee]

Originally Posted by jml1149

I have found that the CO2 concentrations in the basement were much higher than upstairs.p.

What kind of heat do you have in your home?

If gas how old is the furnace or when was the last time the Burners were Checked and Adjusted . properly...

But i Do agree a Basement can have Stale air in it..

The best solution Put a Air return and a hvac vent down there. across the room from each other...... This will circulate air from upstairs into the basement and vs Versa ..



OP sorry for kinda off your topic

[jml1149]

Originally Posted by ericarenee

What kind of heat do you have in your home?

It's an oil furnace, and in the winter it's fine, because I can feel the cold air leaks in plenty of places I haven't sealed up yet. The problem is during the summer, when we seal up the house and run the AC, I think the air exchange in the basement is much worse. It's GREAT during the spring and fall, when all of the windows are open

[ericarenee]

Originally Posted by jml1149

It's an oil furnace, and in the winter it's fine, because I can feel the cold air leaks in plenty of places I haven't sealed up yet. The problem is during the summer, when we seal up the house and run the AC, I think the air exchange in the basement is much worse. It's GREAT during the spring and fall, when all of the windows are open

aww ok its backwards from what i would expect .

We have huge air returns in the basement and upstairs...in the summer we close off the upstairs return some.. With a Magnet cover and open the one full in the basement.. Reverse in the winter... But we do have living space in part of the basement and a Bathroom ..

[jml1149]

Got it. I don't have any returns in the basement, it's unfinished, but where my office and tank are. The only spot in the house the home boss would allow.

[jmatt]

>>> I would epoxy the floor then use Rubber floor tiles over them in your walking paths. You can leave it bare if you wish. No matter what you will get water on them from time to time..

I'm thinking linoleum is cheaper and easier, I'll have to look into prices. I like the idea of the rubber floor mats, too.


>>> Again Mold Resistance Paint. ... use DENSE Glass or DuroRock not drywall in the areas around the tanks and 12 inches all the way around the room on floor .

DuroRock, that's the stuff you use in sheetrocking a bathtub or shower, yes? Makes sense.

>>> There are basement sewage / Gray water pump systems . The cheapest is to use the ones like at lowes ...

Yeah, I saw that in another thread. Probably my only option.

>>>I Have only the ceilings insulated in the area of our basement where there are bedrooms just to keep noise down .

Wife's office is directly above, so noise could be an issue. Not sure how I feel about insulation directly above the exposed tanks, I could sheetrock the ceiling.... but I want access to the rafters since I could theoretically build tank displays like an LFS in the center area and tie 2x4 supports to them for stability. I know I should think small at first but I wanna leave options open...

[jmatt]

Originally Posted by ericarenee

ONE more thing You must used vents or louvered doors on the furnace room.

Furnace will be completely exposed on the other side with enough space so a technician can get in there... should probably make it bigger with that in mind.

[jmatt]

Originally Posted by jml1149

I have found that the CO2 concentrations in the basement were much higher than upstairs. ...My suggestion would be to plan for some sort of active exchange of outside air, not just passively leaving the window open.

Hmm, if I have HVAC circulating in there it would be bringing in air from the rest of the house. If I went with a louvered doors to the room that could create a positive pressure for the space, with air in from the HVAC vent and out through the doors on the opposite side of the room.

Thanks for that, I hadn't considered CO2 levels.