Calcium and Alkalinity

Scubajoe1 · 08/11/2015, 06:12 PM

Ok I know I will get a slue of messages telling me if it's not broke don't fix it but just curious what most people are running their tanks at in regards to alkalinity and Ca. Currently my calcium is about 415-420 and alkalinity is 8.85 and both steady with doing about 200 mils each of the BRS solutions daily for my 185 gallon tank. I have upped it from about 170 a month ago to what it is not and no major change. Mg is about 1350.

SPS corals are looking decent and tips are growing and eventually coloring up. I was not sure if this was ever going to happen in regards to coloring up but it is a slow process compared to the new growth. Phosphates about .04 ppm and nitrates are .5 ppm. Have to feed a lot to get these up from 0.00.

Was wondering if a higher alkalinity and slightly higher Ca would be better? Always looking to improve.

Thanks

Joe

markalot · 08/11/2015, 07:43 PM

Hi Joe,

not an expert, just parroting what I have learned from others.

With lower nutrients Acros do better with alk between 7 and 8 KH and calcium wherever it decided to fall as long as it's better than 400. I would look to slowly lowering your Alk.

Do you have large colonies? 200ml sounds very high but I'm not familiar with the BRS two part.

Scubajoe1 · 08/11/2015, 09:16 PM

I know low alkalinity is good when running biopellets when running ULNS but I don't think I am at the ULNS state anymore since I removed my bio-pellets. my phosphates are typically 0.04-0.05 unless I decrease the feeding then they drop to 0.00 in a couple days. Again nitrates were about 3 ppm which is a good level for SPS but I went on vacation for a week and my house sitter did not feed any oyster feast, phyto or reef roads so hence the drop in nutrients.

I know all tanks are different but I believe for SPS people strive for < 0.1 ppm for phosphates and < 10 for nitrates but I heard people having luck with higher levels as well.

I have 1 colony the size of my open hand and about 4 others the size of my closed fist. Remaining four are small frags. Also have LPS and one large clam.

Will take a pic tomorrow.

BryanS4 · 08/11/2015, 09:19 PM

Are you sure its staying steady? 200 ml is a ton.

I have a 125 and 40 sump and a lot of sps and I'm at 40 ml of brs 2 part per day.

What did you add to up it from 170 to 200? You may be good, but man that sounds like a ton unless your tanked is packed.

Scubajoe1 · 08/11/2015, 09:33 PM

I am certain regarding the measurements. Analytical chemist here for 20+ years. I have even made standard Ca solutions to test the Hanna kit and usually am +/- 1-2%. Take my measurements about the same time each evening and also took samples to the LFS to have them measure as well and both were in decent agreement.

http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...hf0ni.jpg.html

http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...ovnpg.jpg.html

http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...zaib5.jpg.html

Scubajoe1 · 08/11/2015, 09:39 PM

According to BRS the amount of Ca and Alkalinity added should be about the same. So I am adding 200 of each /day

Mg if dosed daily should be about 1/6 of that so about 33 mils/day

Scubajoe1 · 08/11/2015, 09:46 PM

I will call and ask them tomorrow. I see their starting daily dose for a tank with many SPS coral is 0.3 ml/gallon

I am about 3 times that so not sure where it would be going.

Going to test now actually with current kit and new reagents.

Scubajoe1 · 08/11/2015, 10:02 PM

OK I just measured again and got 433 with old reagents and 430 with new reagents using the Hanna checker. it did seem to increase about about 13 ppm in two days going from 170 mils to 200 mls. Will follow the next couple days and maybe drop it again if it keeps increasing. Seems that 170 mLs keeps me at a steady state.

markalot · 08/11/2015, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scubajoe1

I am certain regarding the measurements. Analytical chemist here for 20+ years. I have even made standard Ca solutions to test the Hanna kit and usually am +/- 1-2%. Take my measurements about the same time each evening and also took samples to the LFS to have them measure as well and both were in decent agreement.

http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...hf0ni.jpg.html

http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...ovnpg.jpg.html

http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...zaib5.jpg.html

Very nice. Those colonies look pretty large so you may be fine, or Mag is low and it's precipitating somewhere? Anyway you're way beyond my knowledge, that exquisita is gorgeous, mine is a brown turd.

Zoom the picture, right click to copy the image URL and strip the ~original from the end so it ends in .jpg

So I will now say. DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.

JB NY · 08/12/2015, 07:42 AM

So here are my thoughts on alk.

You can get some stronger growth with alk in the 9-10 dKh range, Coloration IME will not suffer at all, in many cases some corals will do slightly better with alk at this range.

But I have found that SPS, specifically acropora, do better health wise, meaning less random acts of self destruction, STN, RTN at a lower alk of 8-9 dkH.

The only time you need to go lower is if your tank suffers from burning tips on your acros. If you start to see that, drop the alk to below 8 and it generally goes away.

CA and mag, I bump mine to 450 and 1400. I find that for me those are the optimum places for those two for growth.

Scubajoe1 · 08/12/2015, 02:14 PM

Thanks JB. I am pretty much there right now. maybe a little higher on Ca (430) and Mg (1350)

Joe

reefmutt · 08/13/2015, 11:38 AM

You're getting good advice here, imo..
I second 'don't change a thing'..

M007 · 08/13/2015, 05:39 PM

Things look pretty good to me, why tinker?

Scubajoe1 · 08/13/2015, 09:01 PM

ummm, it's in my nature...I'm a scientist. :-)

08/11/2015, 06:12 PM	#1
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	Calcium and Alkalinity Ok I know I will get a slue of messages telling me if it's not broke don't fix it but just curious what most people are running their tanks at in regards to alkalinity and Ca. Currently my calcium is about 415-420 and alkalinity is 8.85 and both steady with doing about 200 mils each of the BRS solutions daily for my 185 gallon tank. I have upped it from about 170 a month ago to what it is not and no major change. Mg is about 1350. SPS corals are looking decent and tips are growing and eventually coloring up. I was not sure if this was ever going to happen in regards to coloring up but it is a slow process compared to the new growth. Phosphates about .04 ppm and nitrates are .5 ppm. Have to feed a lot to get these up from 0.00. Was wondering if a higher alkalinity and slightly higher Ca would be better? Always looking to improve. Thanks Joe __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.

08/11/2015, 07:43 PM	#2
markalot ... Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 3,806 Blog Entries: 3	Hi Joe, not an expert, just parroting what I have learned from others. With lower nutrients Acros do better with alk between 7 and 8 KH and calcium wherever it decided to fall as long as it's better than 400. I would look to slowly lowering your Alk. Do you have large colonies? 200ml sounds very high but I'm not familiar with the BRS two part. __________________ -- Mark 150G (72x18x27) \| 35G sump \| SRO-XP2000INT Skimmer \| ATI SunPower T5 / NanoBox LED hybrid 60" x 4 + 8 NanoBox v3.1 arrays

08/11/2015, 09:16 PM	#3
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	I know low alkalinity is good when running biopellets when running ULNS but I don't think I am at the ULNS state anymore since I removed my bio-pellets. my phosphates are typically 0.04-0.05 unless I decrease the feeding then they drop to 0.00 in a couple days. Again nitrates were about 3 ppm which is a good level for SPS but I went on vacation for a week and my house sitter did not feed any oyster feast, phyto or reef roads so hence the drop in nutrients. I know all tanks are different but I believe for SPS people strive for < 0.1 ppm for phosphates and < 10 for nitrates but I heard people having luck with higher levels as well. I have 1 colony the size of my open hand and about 4 others the size of my closed fist. Remaining four are small frags. Also have LPS and one large clam. Will take a pic tomorrow. __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.

08/11/2015, 09:19 PM	#4
BryanS4 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Hernando Beach, FL Posts: 944	Are you sure its staying steady? 200 ml is a ton. I have a 125 and 40 sump and a lot of sps and I'm at 40 ml of brs 2 part per day. What did you add to up it from 170 to 200? You may be good, but man that sounds like a ton unless your tanked is packed. Last edited by BryanS4; 08/11/2015 at 09:28 PM.

08/11/2015, 09:33 PM	#5
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	Test measurements I am certain regarding the measurements. Analytical chemist here for 20+ years. I have even made standard Ca solutions to test the Hanna kit and usually am +/- 1-2%. Take my measurements about the same time each evening and also took samples to the LFS to have them measure as well and both were in decent agreement. http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...hf0ni.jpg.html http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...ovnpg.jpg.html http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Scub...zaib5.jpg.html __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.

08/11/2015, 09:39 PM	#6
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	According to BRS the amount of Ca and Alkalinity added should be about the same. So I am adding 200 of each /day Mg if dosed daily should be about 1/6 of that so about 33 mils/day __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.

08/11/2015, 09:46 PM	#7
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	I will call and ask them tomorrow. I see their starting daily dose for a tank with many SPS coral is 0.3 ml/gallon I am about 3 times that so not sure where it would be going. Going to test now actually with current kit and new reagents. __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.

08/11/2015, 10:02 PM	#8
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	OK I just measured again and got 433 with old reagents and 430 with new reagents using the Hanna checker. it did seem to increase about about 13 ppm in two days going from 170 mils to 200 mls. Will follow the next couple days and maybe drop it again if it keeps increasing. Seems that 170 mLs keeps me at a steady state. __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.

08/12/2015, 07:42 AM	#10
JB NY Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 9,207	So here are my thoughts on alk. You can get some stronger growth with alk in the 9-10 dKh range, Coloration IME will not suffer at all, in many cases some corals will do slightly better with alk at this range. But I have found that SPS, specifically acropora, do better health wise, meaning less random acts of self destruction, STN, RTN at a lower alk of 8-9 dkH. The only time you need to go lower is if your tank suffers from burning tips on your acros. If you start to see that, drop the alk to below 8 and it generally goes away. CA and mag, I bump mine to 450 and 1400. I find that for me those are the optimum places for those two for growth. __________________ -Joe TOTM Sept 2002 \| Reefland April 2004 \| CORAL Magazine Nov 2007 Featured Tank "Coral Reef Aquarium" 2011 \| Reef Spotlight 2018 Current Tank Info: 270G SPS Tank, 140G sumps, 35G Frag Tank, Ultra Reef Akula UKS-200 Skimmer, Apex, Giesemann Spectra 3x250W MH 4x80W T5, 2xReefbrite Tech 72" Blue LED, Triton Dosing, ARID C30 Algae Reactor, Maxspect Gyre

08/12/2015, 02:14 PM	#11
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	Thanks JB. I am pretty much there right now. maybe a little higher on Ca (430) and Mg (1350) Joe __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.

08/13/2015, 11:38 AM	#12
reefmutt Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mtl. Canada Posts: 7,824	You're getting good advice here, imo.. I second 'don't change a thing'.. __________________ Matt. Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

08/13/2015, 05:39 PM	#13
M007 Acro Whore Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,631	Things look pretty good to me, why tinker? __________________ Mixed reef emphasis on SPS. Tangs, Triggers, Bartlets, CBB, Goldflake Angel, and a Pigmy or two. Current Tank Info: 250G SPS Mixed Reef. ATLAS 84x28x24. SuperMarin 250. Cebu Sun 3 x 250WMH Radiums 4 x 80W T5. Profilux 3 w/GHL dosing CA-ALK-MG. Moved by Tunze and Vertex. Reef Octopus 5K return.

08/13/2015, 09:01 PM	#14
Scubajoe1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 409	ummm, it's in my nature...I'm a scientist. :-) __________________ Scubajoe 180 Gallon reef tank with coast to coast Herbie overflow. 60 Gallon sump with 9" filter sock. 36" lifereef skimmer, activated carbon filter. Emperor Aquatics 40W UV Sterilizer Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reed tank, coast to coast overflow, herbie overflow. Life reef sump and 36" life reef skimmer, GHL Doser 2, Neptune Apex reef controller, Auto topoff, Spectrapure RO system with a Tunze RO controller. activated carbon and no more GFO.