Mandarin QT/TTM question

[coolxborg]

Tank info: 150 Gallons w/30g sump, running for ~4 months
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5
Phosphate = 0
Ph = 8.1
Calcium = 420
Alkalinity = 8.3
Magnesium = 1260

Two weeks ago, I picked up a target mandarin from a local reefer who was breaking down. I initially didnt want to take him since my tank is new, but the seller said that he eats frozen food. He was essentially giving him for free so I took him.

Luckily, the seller was right. He eats frozen food + arctipods.

Anyway, I added him to my QT where I was housing a pistol shrimp. What I realized a week later was I was QT'ing that pistol because it came from one of my other QT that housed a Goby with ich. They are now separated.

He's been sitting in the QT by himself for a week now and still eating well.

Question is, whats the best way to handle it from here?

Option 1 - TTM + 4 weeks of observation (or would this stress him out?)
Option 2 - Observation in QT for 6-8 weeks or longer
Option 3 - Put him in my DT (from other threads, it seems they are resistant to Ich, but not sure if he's a carrier at this point)
Other options?

I feel that option 2 maybe the best option or do I need to treat regardless?

[Isaacs55]

Mandarins are least likely to get ich. I wouldn't say resistant because any fish can carry ich even if there's no noticeable signs. But in my opinion I would do TTM and 4-6 weeks observation. Get him as fat as possible while your doing TTM and observation.

[mushumatt]

I may be wrong but don't all fish carry ich but only shows signs and comes out when stress or an outside source is introduced. {Edit: not so.---sk8r. It's an external parasite that lives in sandbeds.] But mandarins are almost impervious to getting ich from their coating on the outside of the fish. I had an ich outbreak back in the day in my 180. Every fish came down with ich (luckily none passed away) and my mandarin was the only one not to show signs of ich.

[gone fishin]

I think I would do TTM and observe. FWIW just about all mandarins will eat frozen. The problem is that they get out competed for it and they still need pods which is there staple diet, since they ideally will grab a pod about every 5 seconds. IMO the challenge with QT of mandarins is keeping enough pods on hand for the fish to eat.

Also, I am of the opinion that fish do not always have ich. I do not have ich in my DT therefore the fish do not have it. Good luck with the mandarin it may be tough in a new tank. You will want to research any future additions with an eye towards if they are pod eaters as well. When it comes to competing the mandarin will lose most of the time.

[mushumatt]

You could always breed pods in a desperate tank to supplement a new tank.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by mushumatt

I may be wrong but don't all fish carry ich but only shows signs and comes out when stress or an outside source is introduced. But mandarins are almost impervious to getting ich from their coating on the outside of the fish. I had an ich outbreak back in the day in my 180. Every fish came down with ich (luckily none passed away) and my mandarin was the only one not to show signs of ich.

that is incorrect. ich is not always present. it is a discreet organism with a defined life cycle.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I think I would do TTM and observe. FWIW just about all mandarins will eat frozen. The problem is that they get out competed for it and they still need pods which is there staple diet, since they ideally will grab a pod about every 5 seconds. IMO the challenge with QT of mandarins is keeping enough pods on hand for the fish to eat.

Also, I am of the opinion that fish do not always have ich. I do not have ich in my DT therefore the fish do not have it. Good luck with the mandarin it may be tough in a new tank. You will want to research any future additions with an eye towards if they are pod eaters as well. When it comes to competing the mandarin will lose most of the time.

100% this. frozen should only be considered supplemental, their primary food source will always be amphipods and copepods that they catch live.

a 4 month old tank is a bit of a gamble with any dragonet, even a tank of that size. however, you can take steps to mitigate your risk. multiple, small daily feedings of a variety of foods can help. i've noticed a pronounced increase in feeding response with foods soaked in selcon. dragonets also seem to be very keen on many smaller types of row, i.e. fish or other marine animal eggs. Nutramar Ova is darn near magic in this regard, but it's pretty much impossible to get currently. so substituting other types of row can be helpful.

live foods are also excellent. like white worms and black worms are great supplements. the movement seems to really interest dragonets (and all your other fish), downside for the black worms being that they only like for a few seconds in saltwater. so care must be taken with the amount that you're feeding, so as not to create too much waste.

additionally, freshly hatched baby brine dispensed through one of the Paul B. style feeders are pretty much the bee's knees.

here is the original thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...eeding+station

these kinds of feeding stations are very useful for all kinds of fish, but are especially helpful for grazers like dragonets and pipefish.

finally, it's never a bad idea to culture pods outside of the main tank, or to add them from time to time. i just ordered a half gallon not too long ago from Algae Barn to help bootstrap my new tank. it's a 150 long, and initially there were quite a few pods visible on the glass. two weeks after adding my mandy though, not so much. even though i brought over a substantial amount of live rock and sand, sponges, and other structures from the old tank, i wanted to help shore up their numbers.

i also used a little dose from the bag to start some additional pod cultures. i run them in my basement in old plastic pretzel jars, and feed them phytoplankton, which i also culture. surprisingly easy to do!

if you decide to go that route, and i understand it's not something everyone is interested in, here are some good resources to help get your started:

http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c90...pods-c199.html
http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=302
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/breeder

best of luck!

[mushumatt]

Ook my bad, I thought I read it somewhere my bad for the false information. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

[Sk8r]

For the record, I have had mandarins for many years, and have only had one that would eat anything but pods, not even when desperate. I had one mandy that used to follow a purple tang, and began eating small pellet when he did,---go figure. But no others.

[laga77]

I have 2 Mandarins for over a year. I feed them live white worms and black worms, along with a daily dosing of BBS.

[gone fishin]

Originally Posted by mushumatt

Ook my bad, I thought I read it somewhere my bad for the false information. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

No worries.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by mushumatt

Ook my bad, I thought I read it somewhere my bad for the false information. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

not a problem. there is quite a bit of misinformation spread about ich, so the confusion is understandable.

hopefully i didn't come off as too big a d-bag.

[mushumatt]

Oh no no not at all I appreciate the information I'd rather be corrected and have the right information then know false information. I like the links on the bbs feeder. I am going to construct one once my tank is established and I get my mandarin.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I think I would do TTM and observe. FWIW just about all mandarins will eat frozen. The problem is that they get out competed for it and they still need pods which is there staple diet, since they ideally will grab a pod about every 5 seconds. IMO the challenge with QT of mandarins is keeping enough pods on hand for the fish to eat.

Also, I am of the opinion that fish do not always have ich. I do not have ich in my DT therefore the fish do not have it. Good luck with the mandarin it may be tough in a new tank. You will want to research any future additions with an eye towards if they are pod eaters as well. When it comes to competing the mandarin will lose most of the time.

I agree with all of the points above.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by mushumatt

Oh no no not at all I appreciate the information I'd rather be corrected and have the right information then know false information. I like the links on the bbs feeder. I am going to construct one once my tank is established and I get my mandarin.

A bbs feeder is a great supplement but will probably not be sufficient to maintain a mandarin in a 40 gallon tank. The originator of the bbs feeder has a 100 gallon tank that is mature.

[mushumatt]

I don't plan to get a mandarin for at least a year or more. They are my favorite fish, I had one in my 90 then he went into my 180 I had. I had him for 4 years until I had to take my tank down when I went to college.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by mushumatt

I don't plan to get a mandarin for at least a year or more. They are my favorite fish, I had one in my 90 then he went into my 180 I had. I had him for 4 years until I had to take my tank down when I went to college.

If mandarin is your fish of choice, then get a larger tank.

[mushumatt]

You wanna help me move the tank when my house is done being built?

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by mushumatt

You wanna help me move the tank when my house is done being built?

You want me to help you dispose of the mandarin when it does not survive?

[mushumatt]

I love it people immediately jump down people's throats and make assumptions. If I obviously can't find a mandarin that readily accepts prepared food I would never even consider purchasing a mandarin for a 40 gallon tank. But if I was to find one that eats frozen and prepared food then yes I will get one, people act like it's impossible to keep a mandarin in a smaller reef, which it is not. Very hard, yes. Would I culture pods and bbs to supplement feedings, yes I would. I have a friend that has had a mandarin in his 40 breeder going on now for 3 years, it eats prepared food and he supplements with live pods and bbs. It is healthy and looks really good.

It is easier to keep mandarin in an established larger tank as we all know because of the added liverock and surface area for pods to populate. But for that sole reason only.

[coolxborg]

Thanks for everyone's input. Looks like he's going through TTM and 4 weeks of observation.

@MongoDongo - Ive been feeding him frozen mysis soaked with Selcon. He's also have had live brine shrimp who were fed Selcon 12 hours before I fed it to him. Looks like I'll also need to try Nutramar Ova, but after doing a quick search, Ill need to keep an eye out when its in stock again.

[MondoBongo]

There are some other types of roe that I've seen others reporting success with as well, so since nutramar is unfortunately unobtainium at the moment they may be worth trying too.

I've also seen some mild interest in the frozen cyclop-eeze. When I can find the frozen cyclop-eeze it is usually in a double pack with PE Myses. So you can kill two birds with one stone.

Good luck!

[coolxborg]

Update: The mandarin has gone through TTM and 4 weeks of observation. He is now in the DT!

I have lots of pods in the refugium. Whats the best way to get the pods in my DT? Just rinse my macro in the main display at night?

[Spacekitty]

Originally Posted by coolxborg

Update: The mandarin has gone through TTM and 4 weeks of observation. He is now in the DT!

I have lots of pods in the refugium. Whats the best way to get the pods in my DT? Just rinse my macro in the main display at night?

Pods will go through your return pump fairly well, but if you feel like not enough are coming through, you can shake them out of the macro algae over the DT.

[heathlindner25]

I have a target in Mandarin in my 40 breeder and he is obese.....will eat every pellet that hits the sand he needs to go on a diet.