Last couple of Herbie questions before I start plumbing. Please help

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 10:21 AM

I asked a few question a couple of weeks ago about how to do three drains and such. Now I'm trying to start the plumbing on my 120 today or tomorrow. Just a couple of questions. Just want to be sure so the Herbie method will actually work.

I have a 120 Aqueon dual overflow. I'm going to run 2 full siphon drains , 1 emergency drain and 1 return .

Questions .... At what height should I run the drain pipes ? I will be using the megaflow pipes , so I can adjust , but should I run the 2 siphons 10" below the overflow ? Then have the emergency set at 4" below the overflow ? That way of the emergency could handle it maybe I could spot the rise in water by the time it overflows ?

How far should the 2 siphons be under water level in the sump ? Will be using filter socks , so would 2" under water be enough ? No Ts or anything correct , just straight pipe .

Last question is .... If I make 2 removable short pipes that go into the socks , when I remove them to change socks, will I lose my siphon ? Or not since there's water still coming through the pipe .

Sorry for the questions that might seem obvious to Herbie guys . I'm coming from using Dursos since I started !

Firochromis · 09/15/2015, 10:28 AM

Hi, before going Herbie route, please check the BeanAnimal method. It is a modified Durso and many people believe it is much safer and silent. Please google "Beananimal"

Regards

nuxx · 09/15/2015, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firochromis

hi, before going herbie route, please check the beananimal method. It is a modified durso and many people believe it is much safer and silent. Please google "beananimal"

regards

+1

Toddrtrex · 09/15/2015, 11:12 AM

My 210 has dual overflows, and I run 2 separate herbies in each overflow. I personally didn't want to have only one E-drain. I run my return over the back. I used all new PVC, didn't want to use the megaflow pipes -- didn't want to risk using the adjustable pipes.

The full siphons are 6" from the top of the overflow. (( not counting the "bulkhead overflow strainer" )). The E-drain is about 2" from the top overflow.

Into the sump, my pipes are about 2 inches under the water line of the sump -- when running. I use filter socks. The 2 Herbies never share a line, always separate.
When I change out the filter socks the siphons remain -- nothing to worry about there.

Why do you want the filter sock pipes removable? Mine are attached to the sump's bulkheads ( threaded );

Before the socks,

With socks,

Toddrtrex · 09/15/2015, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firochromis

Hi, before going Herbie route, please check the BeanAnimal method. It is a modified Durso and many people believe it is much safer and silent. Please google "Beananimal"

Regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuxx

+1

Not all that easy with a reef ready --- would need to modify the overflows. Not sure the OP would want to replace/modify the overflows and seal the bottom 4 holes.

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 11:18 AM

Toddrtrex ... thats basically what I meant. I meant threaded OR union after the bulkheads in sump so I can get socks out easier. Lets use your plumbing for an example. If you were to unscrew the threaded pipe from the bulkhead when changing a sock, would the siphons break ?

In my case, I don't have threaded bulkheads which would have been great for this application. I will either order some, or just make my own rig without threaded bulkheads.

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 11:20 AM

I definitely would not like to modify the overflows lol When I move I will probably get one custom built and finally be done switching tanks. But for right now, its in the bedroom and I need it close to the wall as well.

CoralReefBoffin · 09/15/2015, 11:20 AM

While I am a proponent of the Herbie drain method, if you have 3 drains I would highly recommend utilizing the BeanAnimal drain system/configuration ...

Toddrtrex · 09/15/2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew930

Toddrtrex ... thats basically what I meant. I meant threaded OR union after the bulkheads in sump so I can get socks out easier. Lets use your plumbing for an example. If you were to unscrew the threaded pipe from the bulkhead when changing a sock, would the siphons break ?

In my case, I don't have threaded bulkheads which would have been great for this application. I will either order some, or just make my own rig without threaded bulkheads.

Ahh, I get you. Personally I have never removed the short pipes to remove the socks. I just pull them down (( at an angle )) to get them around the pipe, haven't had any troubles doing it that way. I don't think you lose the siphon, per se, but it might reset. So, not 100% what would happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralReefBoffin

While I am a proponent of the Herbie drain method, if you have 3 drains I would highly recommend utilizing the BeanAnimal drain system/configuration ...

Again, not an easy thing to do with a reef ready tank.

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 11:40 AM

What would you say my best option is for my tank ? I started another thread awhile back and some members were saying that they did the 3 drains, with one return and it worked out. Are you saying that this is probably not a smart idea ? I had my mind made up, but if there is a big con to this, I definitely want to re-consider my options.

My initial thought was : Left overflow - Emergency, Siphon
Right overflow - Siphon, Return
Return would go straight up to tank, but have a T for a manifold. The 2 siphons would run under water level in sump. The emergency drain would probably run above the refugium section and above water so I can hear if its in use.

Is there something about 2 siphons that would cause a problem? I was going to do 2 emergencies with only 1 siphon, and let water trickle in them, but there would be some stagnant water.

I really want something where I can set it and not have to tune it every week.

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 11:41 AM

Cant really run the return up the back side as its pretty deep already and I need it close to the wall.

Toddrtrex · 09/15/2015, 12:02 PM

What are the hole sizes in each overflow? If they are different, I would make sure that the E-drain is the biggest.

The theory is that you want one E-drain for each siphon (( the same size or bigger )), so that if one gets clogged the E-drain will be able to handle the flow.
In your case, the chances of both full siphons getting clogged at the same time are pretty slim, but that risk does exist. The risk will be lower if the E-drain has a bigger diameter than the full siphon.

Stagnate water is a concern that I had too, the other part that made me go with 2 full siphons and 2 E-drains.

What size pump are you using? What size piping for your siphons and E-drain?

Depending on how your tank/room is set up, could run the return up the side, right at the corner.

In the end, the risk will be small of both siphons being blocked at the same time, up to you if you want to take that risk. (( Plus, the risk could be higher/lower depending on the answers to the questions I asked. )).

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 12:22 PM

Its just a standard 120g Aqueon Reef Ready. All holes are for up to 1" I believe ? They are all the same size. I really can't run the return up the side either unfortunately.

I was going to do 3x 1" Drains and 1x 3/4" return that will also be using a combo of 3/4" and 1/2" parts for a manifold. I will have a ball valve near the pump as well as before the bulkhead. My pump I currently have to use is a Sicce 5.0. Its rated at 1321gph. Not sure how much after the head pressure. My estimate is about 54" of head pressure. I figured even one drain MIGHT be able to handle it with a ball valve on the return and a manifold.

What do you think ?

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 12:27 PM

I did put the megaflow drains in just now to see what the deal was. At its lowest point, I measured about 7" from very top of overflow. The megaflow pipes are obviously a little wider before the bulkhead.

I know you said you didn't like the thought of adjustable, but would it make sense to use these for the siphons (at lowest point) and a straight pipe for the emergency, or would you not since its not bigger diameter as you were talking about in the previous post ?

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 12:45 PM

And I would probably have to dial my return back anyway correct ?

Because if I was running a manifold and tuned the siphons, then stopped using one of the reactors or add/subtract flow from them, there would be more flow in the DT, UNLESS I did have the valve close a little I believe ? So Im a little lost here ! lol

drew930 · 09/15/2015, 09:52 PM

bump for suggestions

drew930 · 09/18/2015, 03:15 PM

Ttt. Need some advice here lol Hopefully get the plan together by tonight or tomorrow and get moving !

09/15/2015, 10:21 AM	#1
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	Last couple of Herbie questions before I start plumbing. Please help I asked a few question a couple of weeks ago about how to do three drains and such. Now I'm trying to start the plumbing on my 120 today or tomorrow. Just a couple of questions. Just want to be sure so the Herbie method will actually work. I have a 120 Aqueon dual overflow. I'm going to run 2 full siphon drains , 1 emergency drain and 1 return . Questions .... At what height should I run the drain pipes ? I will be using the megaflow pipes , so I can adjust , but should I run the 2 siphons 10" below the overflow ? Then have the emergency set at 4" below the overflow ? That way of the emergency could handle it maybe I could spot the rise in water by the time it overflows ? How far should the 2 siphons be under water level in the sump ? Will be using filter socks , so would 2" under water be enough ? No Ts or anything correct , just straight pipe . Last question is .... If I make 2 removable short pipes that go into the socks , when I remove them to change socks, will I lose my siphon ? Or not since there's water still coming through the pipe . Sorry for the questions that might seem obvious to Herbie guys . I'm coming from using Dursos since I started ! __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 11:12 AM	#4
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	My 210 has dual overflows, and I run 2 separate herbies in each overflow. I personally didn't want to have only one E-drain. I run my return over the back. I used all new PVC, didn't want to use the megaflow pipes -- didn't want to risk using the adjustable pipes. The full siphons are 6" from the top of the overflow. (( not counting the "bulkhead overflow strainer" )). The E-drain is about 2" from the top overflow. Into the sump, my pipes are about 2 inches under the water line of the sump -- when running. I use filter socks. The 2 Herbies never share a line, always separate. When I change out the filter socks the siphons remain -- nothing to worry about there. Why do you want the filter sock pipes removable? Mine are attached to the sump's bulkheads ( threaded ); Before the socks, With socks, __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

09/15/2015, 11:18 AM	#6
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	Toddrtrex ... thats basically what I meant. I meant threaded OR union after the bulkheads in sump so I can get socks out easier. Lets use your plumbing for an example. If you were to unscrew the threaded pipe from the bulkhead when changing a sock, would the siphons break ? In my case, I don't have threaded bulkheads which would have been great for this application. I will either order some, or just make my own rig without threaded bulkheads. __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 11:20 AM	#7
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	I definitely would not like to modify the overflows lol When I move I will probably get one custom built and finally be done switching tanks. But for right now, its in the bedroom and I need it close to the wall as well. __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 11:40 AM	#10
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	What would you say my best option is for my tank ? I started another thread awhile back and some members were saying that they did the 3 drains, with one return and it worked out. Are you saying that this is probably not a smart idea ? I had my mind made up, but if there is a big con to this, I definitely want to re-consider my options. My initial thought was : Left overflow - Emergency, Siphon Right overflow - Siphon, Return Return would go straight up to tank, but have a T for a manifold. The 2 siphons would run under water level in sump. The emergency drain would probably run above the refugium section and above water so I can hear if its in use. Is there something about 2 siphons that would cause a problem? I was going to do 2 emergencies with only 1 siphon, and let water trickle in them, but there would be some stagnant water. I really want something where I can set it and not have to tune it every week. __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 10:28 AM	#2
Firochromis Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ankara, Turkey Posts: 86	Hi, before going Herbie route, please check the BeanAnimal method. It is a modified Durso and many people believe it is much safer and silent. Please google "Beananimal" Regards

09/15/2015, 11:20 AM	#8
CoralReefBoffin Moved On Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 70	While I am a proponent of the Herbie drain method, if you have 3 drains I would highly recommend utilizing the BeanAnimal drain system/configuration ...

09/15/2015, 11:41 AM	#11
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	Cant really run the return up the back side as its pretty deep already and I need it close to the wall. __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 12:02 PM	#12
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	What are the hole sizes in each overflow? If they are different, I would make sure that the E-drain is the biggest. The theory is that you want one E-drain for each siphon (( the same size or bigger )), so that if one gets clogged the E-drain will be able to handle the flow. In your case, the chances of both full siphons getting clogged at the same time are pretty slim, but that risk does exist. The risk will be lower if the E-drain has a bigger diameter than the full siphon. Stagnate water is a concern that I had too, the other part that made me go with 2 full siphons and 2 E-drains. What size pump are you using? What size piping for your siphons and E-drain? Depending on how your tank/room is set up, could run the return up the side, right at the corner. In the end, the risk will be small of both siphons being blocked at the same time, up to you if you want to take that risk. (( Plus, the risk could be higher/lower depending on the answers to the questions I asked. )). __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

09/15/2015, 12:22 PM	#13
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	Its just a standard 120g Aqueon Reef Ready. All holes are for up to 1" I believe ? They are all the same size. I really can't run the return up the side either unfortunately. I was going to do 3x 1" Drains and 1x 3/4" return that will also be using a combo of 3/4" and 1/2" parts for a manifold. I will have a ball valve near the pump as well as before the bulkhead. My pump I currently have to use is a Sicce 5.0. Its rated at 1321gph. Not sure how much after the head pressure. My estimate is about 54" of head pressure. I figured even one drain MIGHT be able to handle it with a ball valve on the return and a manifold. What do you think ? __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 12:27 PM	#14
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	I did put the megaflow drains in just now to see what the deal was. At its lowest point, I measured about 7" from very top of overflow. The megaflow pipes are obviously a little wider before the bulkhead. I know you said you didn't like the thought of adjustable, but would it make sense to use these for the siphons (at lowest point) and a straight pipe for the emergency, or would you not since its not bigger diameter as you were talking about in the previous post ? __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 12:45 PM	#15
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	And I would probably have to dial my return back anyway correct ? Because if I was running a manifold and tuned the siphons, then stopped using one of the reactors or add/subtract flow from them, there would be more flow in the DT, UNLESS I did have the valve close a little I believe ? So Im a little lost here ! lol __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/15/2015, 09:52 PM	#16
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	bump for suggestions __________________ 150 in progress ...

09/18/2015, 03:15 PM	#17
drew930 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 1,333	Ttt. Need some advice here lol Hopefully get the plan together by tonight or tomorrow and get moving ! __________________ 150 in progress ...