LED acclimation timeline?..

Joeb1983 · 09/29/2015, 09:49 AM

A few months ago I made the switch from T5's to LED's on all my tanks but one.

Budget did not permit current AI or EcoTech models. After researching I settled on used AI Vega colors as everything I read put the Hydra in the middle of the Sol and Vega. (Sol, Hydra then Vega being the premium of the 3 given its main board, controllability and upgradability)

I knew I would have fading issues after the switch, so I researched common Vega settings that did not burn corals, especially having the cool whites set too high.

I also used the coral acclimation mode via the controller set to 40% initially with the below settings:

CW - 25%
R - 15
G - 15
B - 60
RB - 60
DB - 60

Week after week my corals just look worse and worse... Under T5's everything was thriving with great color and growth.

I ended up loosing a chalice no matter what I did to try and save it. Now a few months later:

Monti Cap is very faded, growth has halted.
Favia is faded, growth halted.
Trumpet is on the decline, not plump or expanded.
Zoas not spreading/growth stopped.
Torches just look sad...

I'm now up to a 60% reduction with the following settings:

20
10
10
55
55
55

With these settings I still have little to no growth, but more polyp extension on my birds nest and the Zoas are more full and Acans seem happier.

I hate seeing my tank like this and I am starting to feel I made a costly mistake.

How long does this tinkering with settings faze take because at this point I am strongly considering switching back to T5's, especially given that my remaining T5 lite tank is doing wonderful...

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Research shows that it may be lack of UV?

Doc_Sid · 09/29/2015, 10:02 AM

Its not because of lack of a specific colour spectrum. Corals adapt and utilise whatever spectrum is available(between 400 to 500nm. Royal Blue 450nm being the peak).

Your issue might be due to too high or too little light.

Joeb1983 · 09/29/2015, 11:15 AM

When I switched to quality T5 HO bulbs, I had fading issues; after a month or so the colors came back.

I would assume its too much light then seeing how I have bleaching. I know from experience my corals would darken/brown with not enough light and lighten/bleach with too much.

I know there is a difference, but visually to the human eye the tank seems more dim than my T5 lit tank.

I guess I'm just getting frustrated and worried about loosing anything else.

oblio · 09/29/2015, 11:19 AM

IMO you simply running the lights too high. I run 2 kessils and max at 35% on a 90gall tank. I was running at 60% with little growth. LED's are way more powerful than we give them credit for. Turn the lights down i bet you see a drastic improvement.

Wazzel · 09/29/2015, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeb1983

I'm now up to a 60% reduction with the following settings:

20
10
10
55
55
55

Any lower and you just a soon turn it off. Your actual levels are

8
4
4
22
22
22

Relax, let it run through the acclimation process. I would go a month to get to the setting you have. The corals will go though an adjustment period. No real way to give you a time frame on that. I had some take weeks and some take months. Your light are not near high enough to cause an over lighting problem.

Joeb1983 · 09/30/2015, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wazzel

Any lower and you just a soon turn it off. Your actual levels are

8
4
4
22
22
22

^ My thoughts exactly. I hope it works out as I am just about at the 3 month mark under LED's.

The tank in question is a 45 standard. Seeing how its 36" wide I went with 2 fixtures in the hood.

Ill give it another couple months. I know many people have success with LED's.

Its just hard seeing things the way they are and I was surprised at the drastic change that rapidly took place after the switch.

Wazzel · 09/30/2015, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeb1983

^ My thoughts exactly. I hope it works out as I am just about at the 3 month mark under LED's.

The tank in question is a 45 standard. Seeing how its 36" wide I went with 2 fixtures in the hood.

Ill give it another couple months. I know many people have success with LED's.

Its just hard seeing things the way they are and I was surprised at the drastic change that rapidly took place after the switch.

It will, stay the course and do not muck with the settings to much. A lighting system change will need time for the corals to come around.

Allentown · 09/30/2015, 03:30 PM

I ran my Kessils at 90% and i couldn't stop my zoas from growing (it was a high nutrient tank).

I pulled a torch out and put it under my Hydra 52s and within 2 weeks it actually is looking better under the Hydras than it did under the kessils..although the tank that the Hydras on is pretty much zero nutrients right now i no doubt shocked the crap out of it.

For what its worth though, my leathers did not do well under the kessils and i lost an acro and a birds next before i gave up trying to keep SPS in that tank. Acans did excellent along side the zoas though. The GSP which is basically a weed, did not do well under the kessils either. Weirdest thing ever.

However, after looking at what people are doing, i am definitely going to a 2x strip of T5s to my new tank and run them 4 to 5 hours a day along side my Hydras. No so much because i think T5s are required to supplement LEDS (although i don't think it hurts) but more so because i don't want to spend another $1,400 for 3 more hydras when i can just supplement the shaded areas with a $200 T5 strip.

Joeb1983 · 12/21/2015, 10:44 AM

As mentioned, the corals are darkening back. I left coral acclimation and settings alone.

I will say what I personally have noticed is that LED's put off some intensity even if it seems dark/dimmer to the eye.

I guess it doesn't "flood" the tank with light like T5's or MH's.

Steve Atkins · 12/21/2015, 02:06 PM

When I first went to leds I had great difficulty deciding if I had too much or too little light as some corals bleached a little and some went darker.

The successful compromise I reached, and which I have kept up with ever since, was to have alternate days of high brightness and low brightness (at only about 50 - 60% of high brightness). Even now 4 days a week my lights reach 100% for a brief 'midday' period and 3 days a week they only get to 70%. I also run cloud simulation which can drop light output by 50% at irregular intervals.

The theory was that the colours would come from the corals having to deal with maximum intensity, even if just for short periods, but the bleaching would come from prolonged high intensity. So far so good.

Steve

Joeb1983 · 12/21/2015, 02:16 PM

Yeah, I've been tinkering and experementing between my 5 tanks. 3 are lit by vega colors, one by a regular hydra and one with a prime.

The prime is programmed to have a high intensity period mid day like you stated and honestly it's by far the most appealing tank with color, extension and growth.

I even have a maxima clam doing great.

The others are following a mid level intensity with a 2 hour ramp.

gus6464 · 12/21/2015, 08:31 PM

The real question is why did you dump the glorious powers of T5 for LED?

Joeb1983 · 12/21/2015, 09:55 PM

A bunch of my buddies made the switch to DIY LED's and raved about how awesome they where.

Half of them looked like a rats nest of wires that looked like it belonged on the Delorean from Back to the Future. Lol!

Honestly, I originally bought 2 Vegas for my 45 due to heat issues with the canopy.

I fell in love with the controllability and the whole not needing to replace bulbs every 8 months was very appealing.

Gets expensive with multiple tanks even during sale time, but as I said before...

I wonder how many bulbs I could have bought with the money I dropped over 4 months on used Vegas and hydras. I traded a skimmer for the prime.

I wish I went with all hydras for the added spectrums however... Although I find the Vegas built better, plus they have a lot of upgradability. Custom pucks and hydra 52 kits.

I love how the fixtures are. Solid built, sleek bricks with awesome mounting options that look very modern.

Radions were outside of my price range and I didn't care for the fan location personally.

So far it's been a learning curve that's for sure...

Cryptos · 12/22/2015, 01:29 AM

I had a major issues bleaching my corals when I got new led fixtures. First I thought I'd lost my chemistry or something. After a lot of time playing with the % white and blues (for simplicity) I was not seeing much from my corals but disparity... My LFS told me I was overthinking it and after checking my stats they told me to help the coral heal I should drop to actinic lighting only for two weeks (intensity wasn't a major concern so I went 75%) and then after two weeks barely add the other spectrums with very small increases every 5-7 days until I saw what I wanted from my corals but not to try going more than about 40% total output. After three days in blue only at a full 12 hrs with no whites coming on at all my corals began to fully extend and I'm seeing color come back to a few that I was sure we're gonners. I'm still going through the cycle but it's obvious the advice is working as of now. When I introduce new corals in the future I'll use the screen layers method and keep them off to the side of the tank until they have many weeks to adjust....

My 2 Cents

Also I want to note that I got several corals from shops using LEDs and they claimed the corals should be acclimated.... My lights don't sit 3 feet above the water so that was a big change for the corals regardless.

Joeb1983 · 12/22/2015, 07:34 AM

My friend who sells frags and has booths at swap meets runs Chinese LED's over all his frag tanks.

Over the years I noticed it didn't matter when I stopped by, he ALWAYS had only the blues on... I always thought they where on to make the colors pop for potential sales.

I started keeping tabs on particular frags over the next few weeks... Nothing was dying off and colors were amazing.

Even SPS such as bird of paradise birds nest.... Those frags looked like the picture on Red Sea's coral pro bucket. Lol!

So I asked him if he just ran the blues all the time? He said that he does... Said they survive, get great color, just the growth isn't there. Said he's flipping frags, not trying to grow them.

He gets frag orders in all the time and frags his own colonies.

I've even noticed the same at my LFS. Blues all the time unless you ask them to bring up the whites...

Maybe they have a weird after hours light schedule?

Who knows?.. Haha!

09/29/2015, 09:49 AM	#1
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	LED acclimation timeline?.. A few months ago I made the switch from T5's to LED's on all my tanks but one. Budget did not permit current AI or EcoTech models. After researching I settled on used AI Vega colors as everything I read put the Hydra in the middle of the Sol and Vega. (Sol, Hydra then Vega being the premium of the 3 given its main board, controllability and upgradability) I knew I would have fading issues after the switch, so I researched common Vega settings that did not burn corals, especially having the cool whites set too high. I also used the coral acclimation mode via the controller set to 40% initially with the below settings: CW - 25% R - 15 G - 15 B - 60 RB - 60 DB - 60 Week after week my corals just look worse and worse... Under T5's everything was thriving with great color and growth. I ended up loosing a chalice no matter what I did to try and save it. Now a few months later: Monti Cap is very faded, growth has halted. Favia is faded, growth halted. Trumpet is on the decline, not plump or expanded. Zoas not spreading/growth stopped. Torches just look sad... I'm now up to a 60% reduction with the following settings: 20 10 10 55 55 55 With these settings I still have little to no growth, but more polyp extension on my birds nest and the Zoas are more full and Acans seem happier. I hate seeing my tank like this and I am starting to feel I made a costly mistake. How long does this tinkering with settings faze take because at this point I am strongly considering switching back to T5's, especially given that my remaining T5 lite tank is doing wonderful... Any input would be greatly appreciated. Research shows that it may be lack of UV?

09/29/2015, 10:02 AM	#2
Doc_Sid Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 40	Its not because of lack of a specific colour spectrum. Corals adapt and utilise whatever spectrum is available(between 400 to 500nm. Royal Blue 450nm being the peak). Your issue might be due to too high or too little light. __________________ Using Tapatalk

09/29/2015, 11:19 AM	#4
oblio Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brandon Fl Posts: 407	IMO you simply running the lights too high. I run 2 kessils and max at 35% on a 90gall tank. I was running at 60% with little growth. LED's are way more powerful than we give them credit for. Turn the lights down i bet you see a drastic improvement. __________________ Tank: 90Gal corner drilled, MP40, MP10, 2 Kessil 360we's, 2 39W t5 supplements, ReefOctopus DNWB150, 2 reactors, carbon and GFO, CadLights BR-1 media reactor w/EcoBak pellets

09/30/2015, 03:30 PM	#8
Allentown Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Augusta, Ga Posts: 975	I ran my Kessils at 90% and i couldn't stop my zoas from growing (it was a high nutrient tank). I pulled a torch out and put it under my Hydra 52s and within 2 weeks it actually is looking better under the Hydras than it did under the kessils..although the tank that the Hydras on is pretty much zero nutrients right now i no doubt shocked the crap out of it. For what its worth though, my leathers did not do well under the kessils and i lost an acro and a birds next before i gave up trying to keep SPS in that tank. Acans did excellent along side the zoas though. The GSP which is basically a weed, did not do well under the kessils either. Weirdest thing ever. However, after looking at what people are doing, i am definitely going to a 2x strip of T5s to my new tank and run them 4 to 5 hours a day along side my Hydras. No so much because i think T5s are required to supplement LEDS (although i don't think it hurts) but more so because i don't want to spend another $1,400 for 3 more hydras when i can just supplement the shaded areas with a $200 T5 strip. __________________ NEW Build: 225g 72x27x27 Tigger Emerald 39 Sump, ConeS CO-3, 3xHydra 52, BRS 2 part dosers, Vortech MP-40 QD Gyre XF150, Neptune Wav x2, 2x Jaebo RW-4, SMR-1, MR-1

09/29/2015, 11:15 AM	#3
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	When I switched to quality T5 HO bulbs, I had fading issues; after a month or so the colors came back. I would assume its too much light then seeing how I have bleaching. I know from experience my corals would darken/brown with not enough light and lighten/bleach with too much. I know there is a difference, but visually to the human eye the tank seems more dim than my T5 lit tank. I guess I'm just getting frustrated and worried about loosing anything else.

12/21/2015, 10:44 AM	#9
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	As mentioned, the corals are darkening back. I left coral acclimation and settings alone. I will say what I personally have noticed is that LED's put off some intensity even if it seems dark/dimmer to the eye. I guess it doesn't "flood" the tank with light like T5's or MH's.

12/21/2015, 02:06 PM	#10
Steve Atkins Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wellington, NZ Posts: 552	When I first went to leds I had great difficulty deciding if I had too much or too little light as some corals bleached a little and some went darker. The successful compromise I reached, and which I have kept up with ever since, was to have alternate days of high brightness and low brightness (at only about 50 - 60% of high brightness). Even now 4 days a week my lights reach 100% for a brief 'midday' period and 3 days a week they only get to 70%. I also run cloud simulation which can drop light output by 50% at irregular intervals. The theory was that the colours would come from the corals having to deal with maximum intensity, even if just for short periods, but the bleaching would come from prolonged high intensity. So far so good. Steve

12/21/2015, 02:16 PM	#11
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	Yeah, I've been tinkering and experementing between my 5 tanks. 3 are lit by vega colors, one by a regular hydra and one with a prime. The prime is programmed to have a high intensity period mid day like you stated and honestly it's by far the most appealing tank with color, extension and growth. I even have a maxima clam doing great. The others are following a mid level intensity with a 2 hour ramp.

12/21/2015, 08:31 PM	#12
gus6464 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,079	The real question is why did you dump the glorious powers of T5 for LED?

12/21/2015, 09:55 PM	#13
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	A bunch of my buddies made the switch to DIY LED's and raved about how awesome they where. Half of them looked like a rats nest of wires that looked like it belonged on the Delorean from Back to the Future. Lol! Honestly, I originally bought 2 Vegas for my 45 due to heat issues with the canopy. I fell in love with the controllability and the whole not needing to replace bulbs every 8 months was very appealing. Gets expensive with multiple tanks even during sale time, but as I said before... I wonder how many bulbs I could have bought with the money I dropped over 4 months on used Vegas and hydras. I traded a skimmer for the prime. I wish I went with all hydras for the added spectrums however... Although I find the Vegas built better, plus they have a lot of upgradability. Custom pucks and hydra 52 kits. I love how the fixtures are. Solid built, sleek bricks with awesome mounting options that look very modern. Radions were outside of my price range and I didn't care for the fan location personally. So far it's been a learning curve that's for sure...

12/22/2015, 01:29 AM	#14
Cryptos Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 3	I had a major issues bleaching my corals when I got new led fixtures. First I thought I'd lost my chemistry or something. After a lot of time playing with the % white and blues (for simplicity) I was not seeing much from my corals but disparity... My LFS told me I was overthinking it and after checking my stats they told me to help the coral heal I should drop to actinic lighting only for two weeks (intensity wasn't a major concern so I went 75%) and then after two weeks barely add the other spectrums with very small increases every 5-7 days until I saw what I wanted from my corals but not to try going more than about 40% total output. After three days in blue only at a full 12 hrs with no whites coming on at all my corals began to fully extend and I'm seeing color come back to a few that I was sure we're gonners. I'm still going through the cycle but it's obvious the advice is working as of now. When I introduce new corals in the future I'll use the screen layers method and keep them off to the side of the tank until they have many weeks to adjust.... My 2 Cents Also I want to note that I got several corals from shops using LEDs and they claimed the corals should be acclimated.... My lights don't sit 3 feet above the water so that was a big change for the corals regardless.

12/22/2015, 07:34 AM	#15
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	My friend who sells frags and has booths at swap meets runs Chinese LED's over all his frag tanks. Over the years I noticed it didn't matter when I stopped by, he ALWAYS had only the blues on... I always thought they where on to make the colors pop for potential sales. I started keeping tabs on particular frags over the next few weeks... Nothing was dying off and colors were amazing. Even SPS such as bird of paradise birds nest.... Those frags looked like the picture on Red Sea's coral pro bucket. Lol! So I asked him if he just ran the blues all the time? He said that he does... Said they survive, get great color, just the growth isn't there. Said he's flipping frags, not trying to grow them. He gets frag orders in all the time and frags his own colonies. I've even noticed the same at my LFS. Blues all the time unless you ask them to bring up the whites... Maybe they have a weird after hours light schedule? Who knows?.. Haha!