Filter sock poll

[seamonster124]

Filter sock poll. Getting tired of changing em out every 2 days. they are catching some very nasty crap and my trates are finally at 0 at 3.5 months wet.

I guess the Q is will the crap caught by socks be otherwise biologically neutralized If I remove the socks?

[heathlindner25]

You want your nitrates at 0?

[slief]

I run four 7" 200 micron felt socks. I have a very heavy load with over 60 fish that are fed 3 times a day. Several of these fish are larger tangs in the 7-8" range. I over feed too. I change my socks about once a week or about the time they start to back up. I don't have any nuissance algae issues and I don't have detectable nitrates and my sump remains spotless. I've been doing it this way for the last 5 years and I've had no issues.

Changing socks every other day is a complete waste of time in my opinion unless they are backing up. Socks remove solids from the water. They back up after several days because they are still catching solids. While it is true that some of the waste will break down in the socks, where else is that waste to go without socks?? It would wind up in the bottom of the sump in the form of detritus. Yea, some will be filtered out by the skimmer but not all and I certainly don't know anybody who vacuums their sumps every other day. Point being that if you change your socks before or when they start to backup, you are still removing a lot of waste that would otherwise be distributed throughout the system.

That said, in my opinion, biological filration plays a bigger role in nitrate removal than filter socks. Socks play a role in removing some of the solids and help to maintain a cleaner system (especially in the sump) but that certainly isn't the only solution for removing nitrates but instead one piece of a larger puzzle. Much of the waste is broken down in the water and passes right though the socks and is removed from the water column via the skimmer and also by dentrifying bacteria in the rocks and substrate. Some may also be removed via macro in our refugiums. In the absence of sufficient biological surfaces, nitrates tend to build unless there is sufficient macro algae to export it. When I hear about high nitrates, two things come to mind.. A lack of proper husbandry or a lack of enough rock. Husbandry can come in the form of vacuuming and water changes. The more live rock you have, typically the less nitrates unless you don't take care of your tank, don't do water changes and have too many fish for the tanks condition or bacteria bed can support.

[cloak]

Aside from using a filter sock for a few hours during a water change, I don't use one on a regular basis. I want things to float freely throughout the system as opposed to getting caught up in a filter sock for days on end. Just as an example, sometimes when I look at my tank at night I'll see a bunch of Epitokes wiggling around. My LPS corals have a field day when this happens, but if I was to put on a filter sock I would be removing quite a bit of this natural food source. Same goes for pods and any leftover prepared foods I might be feeding as well. I want something to utilize this stuff whether it settles on the bottom of my sump or gets pumped back up to the DT for the fish & corals to eat. It does me no good sitting in a sock. When it's time to remove some detritus my siphon and I will definitely turn the tables. GL.

[seamonster124]

Great info

[Isaacs55]

I've had my system running for only 4 months and I've only used and have 1 filter sock. I have not set up my skimmer yet because I don't need to at this point. I only change my filter sock when the water isn't going through it anymore....meaning when it starts to overflow over the sock is when I wash it. My nitrates since I started has been 0 (undetectable).

That being said I am a true believer in filter socks. The only thing I'm not getting by not using a slimmer yet is dissolved oxygen.
When I change my socks out, it looks like what would be in a cup of a skimmer.

[Timfish]

Got systems that have been running for a couple decades without them.

[ca1ore]

No socks chez moi. Design settling traps into all my sumps instead.

[Ron Reefman]

You needed one more answer. I change my filter socks as they are ready to start overflowing. Sometimes that'a after a few days and other times it's after a week.

[Mark426]

I can get away with changing them weekly because I have an Elos sump where the sock is positioned under the skimmer output. The sock gets discolored but not much junk trapped, mainly a bubble trap.

[Syntax1325]

Don't use them anymore. The only benefit I ever saw to using them was a cleaner sump. I vacuum my sump once or twice a year.

I hypothesize that most of the crud not vacuumed up in my sump ends up in the protein skimmer collection cup.

[d2mini]

I prefer using LifeReef sumps that are setup to use filter pads, not socks.
The pads are easier to clean. Just rinse them in the sink. And I clean them about once a month.
Socks suck.

[d0ughb0y]

I change filter sock once every 2 weeks.

It is a DIY sock that I sew myself using fabric I bought from Jo-ann's fabric, so it is a completely brand new sock every time. cost me 25 cents per 6" diameter sock.
Nitrates in tank is 0. So I know first hand you do not need to change your filter sock every day or two to keep nitrates at 0.

search for DIY filter sock in reef 2 reef site.

this is the fabric


sock


with sock holder. I used the old sock holder ring from an old sock, punched holes through it and used zip tie to hold the DIY sock


this was when I was changing sock once a week, I figure I could go two weeks and make the most use of the filter sock and been on 2 week schedule for at least the last 6 months with no issue.


I don't have a sewing machine at home so I got this for like $10 at walmart. I works just fine.

[seamonster124]

Nice DIY. Changing once every two weeks; doesn't that just make it mechanical filter?

[fijisrfr]

Originally Posted by seamonster124

Nice DIY. Changing once every two weeks; doesn't that just make it mechanical filter?

You can change it evert day & it's still a mechanical filter b

[seamonster124]

Any concerns about the stuff they catch continuing to exist inside the tank? I thought the idea was to get the gunk out before it turns into something else?

[d0ughb0y]

you have 2 types of wastes in a tank, particulate and dissolved waste.
Therefore, you need 2 types of filtration, mechanical (filter sock) to collect particulate wastes, and chemical (skimmer) to collect dissolved (organic) wastes. Both are essential.

So yes, particulate wastes collects in the sock and removed every two weeks. If you do not have a sock, then it stays pretty much indefinitely in your tank, hence the root cause of all nitrate problems.

Tank has 0 nitrates. I think using a brand new sock everytime is what made the difference, as I think it is impossible (or hard) to clean a used sock. And for 25 cents a sock, it is definitely not worth cleaning a used sock. That's $6.50 for the year for 26 socks.

[thepotoo]

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but don't the particulate wastes just break down to form organic wastes that your skimmer can remove?

Coming from a FW background, I don't see why you'd ever, ever want to have waste products sitting in a sock, breaking down as the tank water flows over them. I'd much rather have the small stuff get removed right away by the skimmer, and the big stuff go back into the tank where the CUC has a chance to eat it.

I have a light fish load, lots of live rock, and 0 phos/nitrates. I see no reason to chase numbers since my coral are doing well, but I may start dosing ferts if/when I get SPS corals instead of just softies and LPS.

[d0ughb0y]

Originally Posted by thepotoo

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but don't the particulate wastes just break down to form organic wastes that your skimmer can remove?

Coming from a FW background, I don't see why you'd ever, ever want to have waste products sitting in a sock, breaking down as the tank water flows over them. I'd much rather have the small stuff get removed right away by the skimmer, and the big stuff go back into the tank where the CUC has a chance to eat it.

I have a light fish load, lots of live rock, and 0 phos/nitrates. I see no reason to chase numbers since my coral are doing well, but I may start dosing ferts if/when I get SPS corals instead of just softies and LPS.

yes you do not want particulate waste in your tank, and that is exactly why you mechanically filter them out with a sock. So it gets removed (interval varies with each tank) as needed. Compared to not having sock, the wastes stays everywhere in you tank. It does not breakdown as easily as one would think. It reduces the efficiency of your skimmer and return pump.

I have tried going sockless and from my experience, it did not work out. We read postings all the time on claims that using skimmer and no sock and nitrate is 0. And it is those postings that made me try going sockless. Zero nitrates may be the case for a few weeks, but sooner or later, it will become a problem. I'm sure everyone at some point had run into nitrate problem.

When I went sockless, my sump was so filthy after a couple months. Now using a new sock every two weeks, my sump is still clean after almost a year now. It just makes maintenance a lot easier, and for 25 cents a sock.

[slief]

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

you have 2 types of wastes in a tank, particulate and dissolved waste.
Therefore, you need 2 types of filtration, mechanical (filter sock) to collect particulate wastes, and chemical (skimmer) to collect dissolved (organic) wastes. Both are essential.

So yes, particulate wastes collects in the sock and removed every two weeks. If you do not have a sock, then it stays pretty much indefinitely in your tank, hence the root cause of all nitrate problems.

Tank has 0 nitrates. I think using a brand new sock every time is what made the difference, as I think it is impossible (or hard) to clean a used sock. And for 25 cents a sock, it is definitely not worth cleaning a used sock. That's $6.50 for the year for 26 socks.

The solids are collected in the socks and removing them every week or so prevents them from accumulating elsewhere in the system in the form of detritus. Thus keeping a cleaner system and sump. Most of the particulate waste doesn't break down. This is why the socks eventually clog. Some organic matter will break down into dissolved solids but the skimmer exports the dissolved solids and other organics that pass through the socks. Personally, I consider a skimmer another form of mechanical filtration that removes dissolved solids as opposed to solids like the socks do. Anything that is trapped in the socks that does break down will be quickly removed by the skimmer before it makes it's way to the display anyway. This assuming the skimmer is appropriately sized and of good quality. Having done it this way for just about 6 years now, it's worked very well for my heavily stocked and overfed tank and my nitrates are always undetectable and my corals grow like weeds.

As for cleaning the socks, that's is VERY easy. I have found that a good wash cycle with a prewash and 2nd rinse cycle set on medium to high heat with some bleach restores the socks to like new condition. I don't use soap when I wash them. In fact, I thoroughly rinse the soap trays out to insrue there is no residual soap or fabric softener in the machine. I reuse my socks and haven't purchased new socks in 5 years. Granted, I did buy 36 socks and keep 16 of them which the batch of gets washed when I am down to my last 4. I see no difference in longevity between new socks and older ones that have been washed countless times. Only exception being that some of my older ones are a bit worn out and tend to last longer due to the felt thinning slightly.

[d0ughb0y]

BTW, I think the Poll itself is not exactly valid, as each tank is different so the change interval for one may not apply to another. Just change as needed. I think someone mentions they change once their sock is about to overflow. I think this is the extreme. When I change, I can see the water level inside the sock is maybe 1 inch above the sump water level, still a lot of room before it overflows.

also, I think the mesh size of the sock matters. I used to wash socks before, and I use 100 micron socks, and I know I get crap buildup in my sump after a while. So perhaps the felt fabric I use is way finer, maybe 50 microns or less since I do not see any build up in the sump like before.

[Reverse_Reefer]

I don't use them. I think the sump design can accommodate what they do w/o needing them. Look at Life Reef systems which I consider to be the gold standard. None of the designs use filter socks.

[d0ughb0y]

Originally Posted by slief

The solids are collected in the socks and removing them every week or so prevents them from accumulating elsewhere in the system in the form of detritus. Thus keeping a cleaner system and sump. Most of the particulate waste doesn't break down.

People are concerned the solid wastes are hanging around in the sock for a week or so, but not if they are scattered around in nooks and crannies for an indefinite amount of time.

Regarding letting CUC consume the waste. This reminds me of a post by someone comparing how snails clean the glass of algae vs manually cleaned by magnet cleaner. You can imagine what the glass looks like, cleaned by magnet = really clean, cleaned by snails = lots of snail trails on glass with algae. You cannot rely on CUC to comsume 100% of the particulate wastes.

[PhaneSoul]

I dont use socks anymore. High flow will break things down faster, socks get clogged from the bacteria growing in them, i use a settling chamber. Things stay in more of a whole form there, you can see snail poop still look likd snail poop after a week and i vacuum the sump each week.