Nassarius or not

Joe37 · 11/14/2015, 08:06 PM

well I wasn't paying attention when I asked for some nerites snails at the LFS, so when I got home and looked in the bag I was a little shocked when I saw these guys. What throws be is the size, I have the small vibex ones and the super Tongan and it's somewhere in the middle.

Joe37 · 11/14/2015, 08:11 PM

It has some type of hard thing on his foot. Is that a trapdoor

MondoBongo · 11/14/2015, 08:53 PM

that does appear to be. i believe they're called an operculum. i'm having trouble finding information as to whether or not Nassarius snails have them.

the shell does appear similar to other snails i've seen labelled as Nassarius, but that's not necessarily indicative.

snails IDs are tough. =\

Aframomum · 11/15/2015, 03:42 AM

Melev has a good page to look at:

http://melevsreef.com/node/1716

DubiousMaximus · 11/15/2015, 06:04 AM

Could be a large whelk? Looks like nassarius but instead of smooth shell, yours appear to have a 'serrated' shell?

Dkuhlmann · 11/15/2015, 07:52 AM

If it has the shell covering the tail section it's a Whelk. Nassarious snails don't have that.

More info posted in this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2539536

Joe37 · 11/15/2015, 08:27 AM

In the second picture it shows some sort of shell they have on their tail. Also of the three I got two of them are on the rocks and one of them is on the glass. None have went under the sand.

Dkuhlmann · 11/15/2015, 09:43 AM

Joe, they are whelks you need to get rid of them. If you have a sump then put them in it. Otherwise they will eat things you don't want them to.

Joe37 · 11/15/2015, 09:51 AM

Unfortunately I don't have a sump and don't know when my parents will be able to take my back to the LFS. Should I leave it in a cup with some tank water in it for the time being or just let be in my display until I can go to the LFS in a couple of weeks.

Dkuhlmann · 11/15/2015, 11:14 AM

It probably will be ok for a short period of time, just make sure it's eating some meaty foods like mysis. Also keep an eye on it to make sure it's not killing snails or other tank inhabitants.

Reef noob_ · 11/15/2015, 11:26 AM

I'm fairly certain that that snail IS a nassarius, i've had them in all my tanks iand i remember them having an operculum. IDK if i'm right but just my .02 cents

Dkuhlmann · 11/15/2015, 12:14 PM

I have several Nassarius snails and two Tonga Nassarius and can promise you that none of them have the shell flap covering their tails. Also Nassarius will burrow in the sand and Whelks won't from what I've heard can't confirm on the Whelks burrowing or not as I've never had them nor will I ever have them.

Bent · 11/15/2015, 12:20 PM

I'm going with whelk.

cloak · 11/15/2015, 01:06 PM

My Tongan Nassarius snails had a little flap at the end of their tales. (sort of) Whether this was used as an operculum I don't recall. It's been years since I've had these snails. Also, the link below might help to determine whether it's a whelk or not.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rs/index.php

Dkuhlmann · 11/15/2015, 01:08 PM

I'll make sure to check my Tongans when they pop out of the sand next time I feed and see if they have the flap or not. I'm thinking they don't but never really was looking for it.

CStrickland · 11/15/2015, 02:14 PM

Nassarius snails are whelks. But they are good welks who only eat stuff that is already dead.
Strombus grazers are not whelks but they kinda look like they are. Strombus are collumbid (that's not how you spell it tho) snails that are good. They stay pretty small.

I can't be sure from your pic, if it were me I would take it out since bad whelks can be hard to get rid of once they start to breed. I'd go with better safer than sorry, unless you can be sure they are nass or strombus. The melev page linked above is very good.
Idk if the trapdoor is reliable for id

Joe37 · 11/15/2015, 03:26 PM

Ok so I turned the lights off and monitored their behavior. One of them is just chilling in a little rock crevice, one cannot be found, and one was on top of my trochus snail. He didn't attack the trochus snail just stood on top of his shell. So I took him and put him on the sand along with a nassarius vibex and the vibex glided right over the sand while the other seemed to struggle to move around and went straight for the glass

CStrickland · 11/15/2015, 04:39 PM

Yeah, being awkward on sand is a bad sign. But idk, they could also be groggy from the trip home...
Can you get a good look at their "snorkels" to compare?

Aframomum · 11/15/2015, 05:00 PM

Look to see if the snout is speckled or solid color. Speckled is a whelk.

Bent · 11/15/2015, 06:12 PM

I was told Nass snails are not whelks.

CStrickland · 11/15/2015, 06:47 PM

I don't think there is a more credible source for classifying and identifying sand critters than Dr. Shimek. This article is way more than anybody needs to know about whelks:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rs/index.php

Quote:

With the exception of one group, whelks are not animals that are, or should be, welcome in a normal reef aquarium. The exceptional whelks that do well in reef aquaria, and which are good neighbors to all animals in the reef tank, are the nassariids. These animals, mostly in the genus Nassarius, but also including a few other small genera, are typical whelks in all regards except their diets. They are specialized to eat only carrion. In reef tanks, they eat excess meaty food before it can rot, and they eat recently deceased or dying organisms. Probably as a result of their specialization upon carrion, which in nature is found on the surface of sediments, nassariids typically have a proportionally shorter proboscis than other whelks. They can't reach deep into spaces to eat worms, nor can they drill holes through clam shells. They can, however, and do clean up excessive meaty foods very efficiently.

CStrickland · 11/15/2015, 06:55 PM

Lol just noticed that cloak linked to the same article
Once you make it through the Jurassic period, it get pretty interesting. The part about how they poke through shells to eat clams is nice and gory

cloak · 11/15/2015, 07:27 PM

I posted both of the OP's pictures in the Other Invertebrates Forum and one of the gurus there confirmed that it is indeed a Whelk. (Pagojoe)

Buzz1329 · 11/15/2015, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dkuhlmann

Joe, they are whelks you need to get rid of them. If you have a sump then put them in it. Otherwise they will eat things you don't want them to.

Can't comment on whether to get rid of them, but not a big fan of putting unwanted shelled critters in sump due to danger of fouling pumps. Bring it back to store or dump it, IMO.

Mike

Joe37 · 11/15/2015, 07:49 PM

Ok I was able to get 2 of them out of the tank and in a cup. I was taking a look at their body's and their whole body and snout have that spotted look. Do I let them be and give them a chance or keep them in the cup until i can go to the LFS

11/14/2015, 08:53 PM	#3
MondoBongo Obligate Feeder Obsessed Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 4,061	that does appear to be. i believe they're called an operculum. i'm having trouble finding information as to whether or not Nassarius snails have them. the shell does appear similar to other snails i've seen labelled as Nassarius, but that's not necessarily indicative. snails IDs are tough. =\ __________________ [Citation Needed] "You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right" - xkcd Current Tank Info: A rectangular shaped money pit.

11/15/2015, 03:42 AM	#4
Aframomum Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Clermont, FL (outside Orlando) Posts: 862	Melev has a good page to look at: http://melevsreef.com/node/1716 __________________ It can fly inverted Current Tank Info: no current tanks running

11/15/2015, 07:52 AM	#6
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	If it has the shell covering the tail section it's a Whelk. Nassarious snails don't have that. More info posted in this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2539536 __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

11/15/2015, 09:43 AM	#8
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	Joe, they are whelks you need to get rid of them. If you have a sump then put them in it. Otherwise they will eat things you don't want them to. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

11/15/2015, 11:14 AM	#10
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	It probably will be ok for a short period of time, just make sure it's eating some meaty foods like mysis. Also keep an eye on it to make sure it's not killing snails or other tank inhabitants. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

11/15/2015, 06:04 AM	#5
DubiousMaximus Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 80	Could be a large whelk? Looks like nassarius but instead of smooth shell, yours appear to have a 'serrated' shell?

11/15/2015, 08:27 AM	#7
Joe37 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 50	In the second picture it shows some sort of shell they have on their tail. Also of the three I got two of them are on the rocks and one of them is on the glass. None have went under the sand.

11/15/2015, 09:51 AM	#9
Joe37 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 50	Unfortunately I don't have a sump and don't know when my parents will be able to take my back to the LFS. Should I leave it in a cup with some tank water in it for the time being or just let be in my display until I can go to the LFS in a couple of weeks.

11/15/2015, 11:26 AM	#11
Reef noob_ Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: holmdel, NJ Posts: 555	I'm fairly certain that that snail IS a nassarius, i've had them in all my tanks iand i remember them having an operculum. IDK if i'm right but just my .02 cents __________________ ________________________ New Build in progress http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2528685 90 gallon DT, 65 Gallon Fuge, Chinese LEDs, LPS and Soft coral reef

11/15/2015, 12:14 PM	#12
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	I have several Nassarius snails and two Tonga Nassarius and can promise you that none of them have the shell flap covering their tails. Also Nassarius will burrow in the sand and Whelks won't from what I've heard can't confirm on the Whelks burrowing or not as I've never had them nor will I ever have them. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

11/15/2015, 12:20 PM	#13
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	I'm going with whelk. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

11/15/2015, 01:06 PM	#14
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	My Tongan Nassarius snails had a little flap at the end of their tales. (sort of) Whether this was used as an operculum I don't recall. It's been years since I've had these snails. Also, the link below might help to determine whether it's a whelk or not. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rs/index.php

11/15/2015, 01:08 PM	#15
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	I'll make sure to check my Tongans when they pop out of the sand next time I feed and see if they have the flap or not. I'm thinking they don't but never really was looking for it. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

11/15/2015, 02:14 PM	#16
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	Nassarius snails are whelks. But they are good welks who only eat stuff that is already dead. Strombus grazers are not whelks but they kinda look like they are. Strombus are collumbid (that's not how you spell it tho) snails that are good. They stay pretty small. I can't be sure from your pic, if it were me I would take it out since bad whelks can be hard to get rid of once they start to breed. I'd go with better safer than sorry, unless you can be sure they are nass or strombus. The melev page linked above is very good. Idk if the trapdoor is reliable for id __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

11/15/2015, 04:39 PM	#18
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	Yeah, being awkward on sand is a bad sign. But idk, they could also be groggy from the trip home... Can you get a good look at their "snorkels" to compare? __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

11/15/2015, 05:00 PM	#19
Aframomum Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Clermont, FL (outside Orlando) Posts: 862	Look to see if the snout is speckled or solid color. Speckled is a whelk. __________________ It can fly inverted Current Tank Info: no current tanks running

11/15/2015, 06:12 PM	#20
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	I was told Nass snails are not whelks. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

11/15/2015, 06:55 PM	#22
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	Lol just noticed that cloak linked to the same article Once you make it through the Jurassic period, it get pretty interesting. The part about how they poke through shells to eat clams is nice and gory __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

11/15/2015, 07:27 PM	#23
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	I posted both of the OP's pictures in the Other Invertebrates Forum and one of the gurus there confirmed that it is indeed a Whelk. (Pagojoe)