Really frustrated - any and all thoughts appreciated

toothybugs · 11/15/2015, 06:20 PM

Help me figure this out, folks. Bear with me while I get you a summarized history.

My nearly-2-year-old tank has (had) been running great - great growth and colors, no deaths (at least none that weren't attributed to open tops), etc. I set it up as a zoa/softie tank initially but moved toward LPS within about 6 months of setup. I pulled my sand incrementally over 2015 until now there is just a trace left. I did it for increased flow and that seemed to catalyze growth. Nutrients were normally pretty low unless I screwed something up and had to fix it, then we were good again (I mean 5-ish ppm nitrates, under 0.2ppm PO4).

Until I decided to start sticks a couple months ago. Then it all changed - my nitrates started to creep up (lately 10ppm and today I read around 25) with a corresponding bump in PO4 (normally .1 or so, lately .2 and today approaching .5).

I don't get it - my new/ refreshed macros are growing, all my chemistry has been pretty stable, and I have not had a fish loss in months. Everybody's accounted for. I haven't changed my feeding routine in a year and a half (SF brand cubes of mysis, brine, spirulina brine, marine cuisine, occcasionally REef Frenzy for a treat). I run 2x RW8s on a 2sec 20%-100% ramp and a single RW4 hits a dead pocket otherwise. I have sufficient flow so I don't have any dead spots for junk to build up.

What could I be missing? I don't run socks and I cleaned out my sump hardcore last weekend, as well as blowing out my rocks on at least a weekly basis and sucking out the crud for a partial water change (normally 1 really full 5g pail).

Fish load: 2 occy clowns, a Valentini, Royal gramma, YWG, and a scooter blenny. 40B with 60-65lbs rock and an attached 15gal fuge, about 15 more in the sump.

Numbers:
Ca - 450 (rock solid)
Mg - 1500-1550 (I run IORC...)
Alk - 7.8-8.1 pretty consistent since I got in to sticks (Ca, Alk, Mag are Red Sea Pro, expire 3-16)
NO3 - historically 3-5ppm, lately 10 and today 25
PO4 - historically .05ppm, lately .1-.2 and today almost .5 (Nutrient tests are Salifert, expire Feb 2017)
Salinity - 1.026 (calibrated refractometer a week ago, it was off almost 0.001)
Temp - 79-80F (Ranco controlled)

So, what could I be missing?

(And I think I have hydroids going which is only adding to this mess, but that's another story.)

AquaTDV · 11/15/2015, 06:52 PM

I had a friend who was running into a very similar issue. His tank was amazing for the first couple of years then he hit a brick wall. We check everything, even replaced his rock and did several 100% water changes, and within a few weeks of the water changes the PO4 was back up to the .75 mark. It was remarkably stable but very high. We then decided to dig a little deeper. This time we pulled out the Starboard, which I found out later was not Starboard but a knock-off board that was sold as the same thing just a cheaper version that began to decompose. We then placed a piece of the board in a 5 gallon bucket of FSW, and sure enough with in a day the levels began to rise. I don't know if you have something like this in your tank, but I wouldn't overlook details or things in your tank you thought were inert. Just a thought.... I know how frustrating these problems can be. Good luck!

urbanrat84 · 11/15/2015, 07:25 PM

Corals do produce waste products in the form of nitrate, I have tested this myself in a tank with one coral in it - could it be that your corals have grown and the reef is becoming fuller?

reefgeezer · 11/15/2015, 08:18 PM

You have a lot of rock in your system. It may be the culprit. All those nooks & crannies may have lots of organics trapped & decaying. That may be driving up nutrients. Additionally the rocks themselves may have been binding phosphates for the last couple of years and now beginning to leach it back into the water column.

Rising PO4 with rapidly growing macros are an indication of two things:
1. A PO4 source somewhere; and/or
2. Not enough macro to bind the volume of free PO4 being produced.

I didn't see any other method of lowering PO4 mentioned in your original post. If you have an adequate skimmer, carbon dosing will help. Using GFO will probably be required also.

SammyL · 11/15/2015, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toothybugs

Until I decided to start sticks a couple months ago. Then it all changed - my nitrates started to creep up (lately 10ppm and today I read around 25) with a corresponding bump in PO4 (normally .1 or so, latel, marine cuisine, occcasionally REef Frenzy for a treat)

What are "sticks"?

MjKonesky · 11/15/2015, 08:52 PM

Macros growing fast are a sure sign of nutrients in your water. Phos seems a little high. A testing of the output of your reactor may help a little So you can better gauge when to change media. All i can come up with.

toothybugs · 11/15/2015, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyL

What are "sticks"?

SPS. Acroporas, pocillopora, seriatopora, etc.

Thanks guys. Keep it coming. There has to be something I missed.

11/15/2015, 06:20 PM	#1
toothybugs In Memoriam Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: The smallest county in Illinois Posts: 1,986	Really frustrated - any and all thoughts appreciated Help me figure this out, folks. Bear with me while I get you a summarized history. My nearly-2-year-old tank has (had) been running great - great growth and colors, no deaths (at least none that weren't attributed to open tops), etc. I set it up as a zoa/softie tank initially but moved toward LPS within about 6 months of setup. I pulled my sand incrementally over 2015 until now there is just a trace left. I did it for increased flow and that seemed to catalyze growth. Nutrients were normally pretty low unless I screwed something up and had to fix it, then we were good again (I mean 5-ish ppm nitrates, under 0.2ppm PO4). Until I decided to start sticks a couple months ago. Then it all changed - my nitrates started to creep up (lately 10ppm and today I read around 25) with a corresponding bump in PO4 (normally .1 or so, lately .2 and today approaching .5). I don't get it - my new/ refreshed macros are growing, all my chemistry has been pretty stable, and I have not had a fish loss in months. Everybody's accounted for. I haven't changed my feeding routine in a year and a half (SF brand cubes of mysis, brine, spirulina brine, marine cuisine, occcasionally REef Frenzy for a treat). I run 2x RW8s on a 2sec 20%-100% ramp and a single RW4 hits a dead pocket otherwise. I have sufficient flow so I don't have any dead spots for junk to build up. What could I be missing? I don't run socks and I cleaned out my sump hardcore last weekend, as well as blowing out my rocks on at least a weekly basis and sucking out the crud for a partial water change (normally 1 really full 5g pail). Fish load: 2 occy clowns, a Valentini, Royal gramma, YWG, and a scooter blenny. 40B with 60-65lbs rock and an attached 15gal fuge, about 15 more in the sump. Numbers: Ca - 450 (rock solid) Mg - 1500-1550 (I run IORC...) Alk - 7.8-8.1 pretty consistent since I got in to sticks (Ca, Alk, Mag are Red Sea Pro, expire 3-16) NO3 - historically 3-5ppm, lately 10 and today 25 PO4 - historically .05ppm, lately .1-.2 and today almost .5 (Nutrient tests are Salifert, expire Feb 2017) Salinity - 1.026 (calibrated refractometer a week ago, it was off almost 0.001) Temp - 79-80F (Ranco controlled) So, what could I be missing? (And I think I have hydroids going which is only adding to this mess, but that's another story.) Last edited by toothybugs; 11/15/2015 at 06:26 PM.

11/15/2015, 06:52 PM	#2
AquaTDV Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 286	I had a friend who was running into a very similar issue. His tank was amazing for the first couple of years then he hit a brick wall. We check everything, even replaced his rock and did several 100% water changes, and within a few weeks of the water changes the PO4 was back up to the .75 mark. It was remarkably stable but very high. We then decided to dig a little deeper. This time we pulled out the Starboard, which I found out later was not Starboard but a knock-off board that was sold as the same thing just a cheaper version that began to decompose. We then placed a piece of the board in a 5 gallon bucket of FSW, and sure enough with in a day the levels began to rise. I don't know if you have something like this in your tank, but I wouldn't overlook details or things in your tank you thought were inert. Just a thought.... I know how frustrating these problems can be. Good luck! __________________ Troy V Current Tank Info: 240 MIXED REEF/60 PLASMA/LED SOFTY

11/15/2015, 07:25 PM	#3
urbanrat84 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 246	Corals do produce waste products in the form of nitrate, I have tested this myself in a tank with one coral in it - could it be that your corals have grown and the reef is becoming fuller? __________________ Megan Current Tank Info: Dedicated BTA tank - been in the hobby since Jan 07

11/15/2015, 08:18 PM	#4
reefgeezer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 2,621	You have a lot of rock in your system. It may be the culprit. All those nooks & crannies may have lots of organics trapped & decaying. That may be driving up nutrients. Additionally the rocks themselves may have been binding phosphates for the last couple of years and now beginning to leach it back into the water column. Rising PO4 with rapidly growing macros are an indication of two things: 1. A PO4 source somewhere; and/or 2. Not enough macro to bind the volume of free PO4 being produced. I didn't see any other method of lowering PO4 mentioned in your original post. If you have an adequate skimmer, carbon dosing will help. Using GFO will probably be required also. __________________ John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef

11/15/2015, 08:52 PM	#6
MjKonesky Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 15	Macros growing fast are a sure sign of nutrients in your water. Phos seems a little high. A testing of the output of your reactor may help a little So you can better gauge when to change media. All i can come up with.