High nitrate levels

T206 · 11/26/2015, 03:12 PM

I currently have very high nitrate levels and am having trouble getting them down. I know if I do a very very large water change I could get them down but am hesitant to do a 60-70% change like this. I have found that the only way to get nitrate down is to do over 50%. Why is this? I have been dosing Red Sea NO3:PO4 X. My levels are above 5ppm. I am going to start running bio pellets in a reactor this week. Do you have any tips on where I should go from here? Should I do the giant water change?

bertoni · 11/26/2015, 04:00 PM

Water changes tend to help only for a little bit. If there is an underlying problem, the nitrate level tend to rise back up fairly quickly. 5 ppm probably is fine for your animals. Personally, I'd ignore it.

T206 · 11/26/2015, 06:32 PM

I've kept successful reefs for a while now. This is a fairly new tank but I like ultra low nitrate as it helps my coral colors. I'm wondering if the source isn't my chaeto. I picked it up on my lunch break and didn't get it in the tank til a long time later. It looks ok but I'm wondering if that isn't the source. Will my carbon dosing lower the nitrate or do I have to do a large water change?

malira · 11/26/2015, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206

I've kept successful reefs for a while now. This is a fairly new tank but I like ultra low nitrate as it helps my coral colors. I'm wondering if the source isn't my chaeto. I picked it up on my lunch break and didn't get it in the tank til a long time later. It looks ok but I'm wondering if that isn't the source. Will my carbon dosing lower the nitrate or do I have to do a large water change?

For me it's just the opposite. Keeping my nitrates around 5 ppm helps my corals. Lps get fluffier, zoas open up more and all of them especially my sps color up better.

T206 · 11/26/2015, 06:50 PM

I agree with that to some extent. I have a tank where I don't worry about nitrate but I want ultra low nutrient levels on this one.

bertoni · 11/26/2015, 10:52 PM

Carbon dosing likely will lower the nitrate level over time. I doubt that the Chaetomorpha is the problem. I'd get a second opinion on the nitrate kit, and test for nitrite. Nitrite can confuse nitrate test kits.

tmz · 11/27/2015, 11:32 AM

It can take months for baseline ntrate to drop with organic carbon dosing. The bacteria involved are probably taking ammonia directly , thus reducing nitrate production. It takes longer for nitrate already in the system to drop significantly. 5ppm isn't terrible ,though I prefer it under 1ppm . I'd just kleep dosing the soluble organics. Adding pellets won't help,IMO.

T206 · 11/27/2015, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

Carbon dosing likely will lower the nitrate level over time. I doubt that the Chaetomorpha is the problem. I'd get a second opinion on the nitrate kit, and test for nitrite. Nitrite can confuse nitrate test kits.

I do test for nitrite. Very very low if any. It is at undetectable levels. Can I still carbon dose with Red Sea nitrate

hosphate X or is that a bad idea?

bertoni · 11/27/2015, 10:18 PM

Carbon dosing should be fine to try. I'd watch for signs of trouble with corals, but problems seem to be rare if the dose is ramped up conservatively.

T206 · 11/28/2015, 02:55 PM

I'm sorry I don't know if I asked the last question right. While the levels are high can I still dose the Red Sea nitrate and phosphate reducer while running biopellets in my reactor?

T206 · 11/28/2015, 04:15 PM

Bad news just re-checked NO3 today and levels were 12ppm. Can I do a very large water change to reduce these? Like 50-75% or is that too stressful for fish?

bertoni · 11/28/2015, 11:25 PM

12 ppm is a safe level, and I'd just work on some sort of long-term nutrient control if I were worried about coral coloration. Large water changes can cause more problems than they solve.

Swetpants · 11/28/2015, 11:33 PM

How are your corals looking? Does it seem to bother them? Drastically changing things in your tank could be detrimental. I've been running 10-15ppm nitrates for a long long time. Nothing seems to care. Even my SPS grow and have great color. I wouldn't change anything if everything in the tank seems to be happy. A lot of people are so caught up in low levels of everything. Your corals will tell you what they do and don't like.

tmz · 11/29/2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206

I'm sorry I don't know if I asked the last question right. While the levels are high can I still dose the Red Sea nitrate and phosphate reducer while running biopellets in my reactor?

Yes, but it's tricky and difficult to know how much since the amount of organic carbon the pellets are adding is unknown.

Arthur1 · 11/29/2015, 10:50 AM

T2. In the freshwater world, many people neglect routine aquarium maintenance and their nitrate levels reach ridiculous levels. What fixes this? A series of large water changes. Large b/c the dilution factor. As mentioned, large water changes on a reef aquarium can be stressful to the inhabitants. Bertoni mentioned nutrient control, which, as the culprit should be addressed and not a band aid used. The Red sea supplement that you are using is a good product if used correctly as I have personally used it. I'm with tmz concerning lower nitrates but remember, some people do add nitrates to their aquariums, but that's for another day. Definitely cross reference your nitrate test kit to be sure on the results. If your biopellet reactor doesn't work out so well, may a remote deep sand bed. Good luck!

T206 · 11/29/2015, 06:01 PM

I should have added more information about my system. It's a 68 gallon tank with a 25 gallon sump. I have roughly about a 4" sandbed and have a little more than 75 lbs of live rock. I have chaeto in my refugium section. Run an octopus space saver 110, i run two reactors, one with carbon and one with biopellets. I also dose Kalkwasser in all my tanks to maintain calcium, ph, and alkalinity. Digital aquatics Reefkeeper with pH, salinity and temp probes. 300 watt titanium heater. Maxspect gyre. I currently have a light bio load. Spotted goby with pistol shrimp, two azure damsels and am adding long nose hawkfish, purple tilefish and a couple of small tangs.

I make my own saltwater from a 6 stage RO/DI system which is probably more filtration than I need living in the north without the use of chloramines and soft water. I use Red Sea test kits and hw reef salt. No nitrates present in the water I make or salt.

bertoni · 11/29/2015, 08:03 PM

I would call that a moderate to heavy bio-load, especially with only 75 lbs of live rock. Carbon dosing should work over time, though.

tmz · 11/30/2015, 10:21 AM

There are various opinions about nitrate levels; it's a debateable subject without hard data but lots of anecdotal information which varies.
Surface waters on reefs run about 0.2ppm.
IME , FWIW, sensitive sps particularly some seriatopora species don't do very well much over 5 ppm or so.
Some corals tolerate higher levels than others. Anecdotally, all in all a level near 0.2ppm supports vibrancy for the wide variety of corals I keep
Generally, it is thought , the extra nitrate can lead to increased zooxanthelllae density with browning and in some cases overproduction of oxygen in the coral leading to stress . Increased zooxanthellae density at some level seems to push the symbiotic relationship with the coral out of balance.

alazo1 · 11/30/2015, 12:46 PM

I had about the same amount of nitrate for a long time. NoPox took about 3 months but it down now. Like others say, I would give it more time.

If your corals are not doing well I would not think that it's nitrate related.

Albert

T206 · 11/30/2015, 12:50 PM

I performed a large water change last night. I will add more live rock to my sump

brad65ford · 11/30/2015, 09:58 PM

running a 40g fusion and at one point the n03 was 50ppm which corals didn't like it. Since then removed the DSB and when shallow CC now doing 70-80 percent WC's and siphoning 30/40 percent of the CC at that time to remove as much detritus as possible. WC's are done every 2 or 3 weeks now like this and my no3 stays at 2.5ppm. Corals have done so much better now rather then trying to correct the water that is in the tank, i'm just not good at that aspect of reefing still lol. Also I having done the opposite as well with a BB system and stripping the water to 0 no3 that isn't the way to go either. Trying to find a happy middle ground is the goal imo

Regarding your questions about large WC hurting or shocking the fish/corals... yes it can if done incorrectly or them just not getting used to it. Personally if you run the same salt and get the parameters as close to the tank with new salt water mix you should be fine. Corals being out of the water get used to it as well, just don't wait to long to refill. I rush quickly to remove and refill with out disturbing the corals or substrate except for siphoning. I'm not alone in this method IMO its super easy if you don't want to deal with chemicals and dosing things other then alk/cal.

T206 · 11/30/2015, 11:04 PM

I agree. I am OCD about salinity, replacement water temp and water change speed. I did a rather large water change yesterday and managed to drop the nitrate levels from. 12ppm to 8. I am also going to stuff as much live rock as I can into my sump. To bring the total amount of live rock to 1lb per gallon

T206 · 11/30/2015, 11:10 PM

I'm kicking myself for not doing a 100% water change after cycling was complete

FortyFour · 11/30/2015, 11:18 PM

Do you have any old filter socks or other places where detritus can build up?

T206 · 12/01/2015, 10:54 PM

No I am pretty good at changing filter socks, carbon filter floss, etc. I think my nitrates are just built up from cycling. I'll just have to do a few large water changes to get them down.

11/26/2015, 03:12 PM	#1
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	High nitrate levels I currently have very high nitrate levels and am having trouble getting them down. I know if I do a very very large water change I could get them down but am hesitant to do a 60-70% change like this. I have found that the only way to get nitrate down is to do over 50%. Why is this? I have been dosing Red Sea NO3:PO4 X. My levels are above 5ppm. I am going to start running bio pellets in a reactor this week. Do you have any tips on where I should go from here? Should I do the giant water change?

11/26/2015, 04:00 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Water changes tend to help only for a little bit. If there is an underlying problem, the nitrate level tend to rise back up fairly quickly. 5 ppm probably is fine for your animals. Personally, I'd ignore it. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/26/2015, 10:52 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Carbon dosing likely will lower the nitrate level over time. I doubt that the Chaetomorpha is the problem. I'd get a second opinion on the nitrate kit, and test for nitrite. Nitrite can confuse nitrate test kits. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/27/2015, 11:32 AM	#7
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	It can take months for baseline ntrate to drop with organic carbon dosing. The bacteria involved are probably taking ammonia directly , thus reducing nitrate production. It takes longer for nitrate already in the system to drop significantly. 5ppm isn't terrible ,though I prefer it under 1ppm . I'd just kleep dosing the soluble organics. Adding pellets won't help,IMO. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

11/27/2015, 10:18 PM	#9
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Carbon dosing should be fine to try. I'd watch for signs of trouble with corals, but problems seem to be rare if the dose is ramped up conservatively. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/26/2015, 06:32 PM	#3
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	I've kept successful reefs for a while now. This is a fairly new tank but I like ultra low nitrate as it helps my coral colors. I'm wondering if the source isn't my chaeto. I picked it up on my lunch break and didn't get it in the tank til a long time later. It looks ok but I'm wondering if that isn't the source. Will my carbon dosing lower the nitrate or do I have to do a large water change?

11/26/2015, 06:50 PM	#5
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	I agree with that to some extent. I have a tank where I don't worry about nitrate but I want ultra low nutrient levels on this one.

11/28/2015, 02:55 PM	#10
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	Nitrate phosphate reducer and biopellets I'm sorry I don't know if I asked the last question right. While the levels are high can I still dose the Red Sea nitrate and phosphate reducer while running biopellets in my reactor?

11/28/2015, 04:15 PM	#11
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	Bad news just re-checked NO3 today and levels were 12ppm. Can I do a very large water change to reduce these? Like 50-75% or is that too stressful for fish?

11/28/2015, 11:25 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	12 ppm is a safe level, and I'd just work on some sort of long-term nutrient control if I were worried about coral coloration. Large water changes can cause more problems than they solve. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/28/2015, 11:33 PM	#13
Swetpants Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Huntington Beach, ca Posts: 65	How are your corals looking? Does it seem to bother them? Drastically changing things in your tank could be detrimental. I've been running 10-15ppm nitrates for a long long time. Nothing seems to care. Even my SPS grow and have great color. I wouldn't change anything if everything in the tank seems to be happy. A lot of people are so caught up in low levels of everything. Your corals will tell you what they do and don't like.

11/29/2015, 10:50 AM	#15
Arthur1 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 578	T2. In the freshwater world, many people neglect routine aquarium maintenance and their nitrate levels reach ridiculous levels. What fixes this? A series of large water changes. Large b/c the dilution factor. As mentioned, large water changes on a reef aquarium can be stressful to the inhabitants. Bertoni mentioned nutrient control, which, as the culprit should be addressed and not a band aid used. The Red sea supplement that you are using is a good product if used correctly as I have personally used it. I'm with tmz concerning lower nitrates but remember, some people do add nitrates to their aquariums, but that's for another day. Definitely cross reference your nitrate test kit to be sure on the results. If your biopellet reactor doesn't work out so well, may a remote deep sand bed. Good luck!

11/29/2015, 06:01 PM	#16
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	System info I should have added more information about my system. It's a 68 gallon tank with a 25 gallon sump. I have roughly about a 4" sandbed and have a little more than 75 lbs of live rock. I have chaeto in my refugium section. Run an octopus space saver 110, i run two reactors, one with carbon and one with biopellets. I also dose Kalkwasser in all my tanks to maintain calcium, ph, and alkalinity. Digital aquatics Reefkeeper with pH, salinity and temp probes. 300 watt titanium heater. Maxspect gyre. I currently have a light bio load. Spotted goby with pistol shrimp, two azure damsels and am adding long nose hawkfish, purple tilefish and a couple of small tangs. I make my own saltwater from a 6 stage RO/DI system which is probably more filtration than I need living in the north without the use of chloramines and soft water. I use Red Sea test kits and hw reef salt. No nitrates present in the water I make or salt.

11/29/2015, 08:03 PM	#17
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I would call that a moderate to heavy bio-load, especially with only 75 lbs of live rock. Carbon dosing should work over time, though. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/30/2015, 10:21 AM	#18
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	There are various opinions about nitrate levels; it's a debateable subject without hard data but lots of anecdotal information which varies. Surface waters on reefs run about 0.2ppm. IME , FWIW, sensitive sps particularly some seriatopora species don't do very well much over 5 ppm or so. Some corals tolerate higher levels than others. Anecdotally, all in all a level near 0.2ppm supports vibrancy for the wide variety of corals I keep Generally, it is thought , the extra nitrate can lead to increased zooxanthelllae density with browning and in some cases overproduction of oxygen in the coral leading to stress . Increased zooxanthellae density at some level seems to push the symbiotic relationship with the coral out of balance. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals. Last edited by tmz; 11/30/2015 at 10:27 AM.

11/30/2015, 12:46 PM	#19
alazo1 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 428	I had about the same amount of nitrate for a long time. NoPox took about 3 months but it down now. Like others say, I would give it more time. If your corals are not doing well I would not think that it's nitrate related. Albert

11/30/2015, 12:50 PM	#20
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	I performed a large water change last night. I will add more live rock to my sump

11/30/2015, 09:58 PM	#21
brad65ford Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SWFL Posts: 1,219	running a 40g fusion and at one point the n03 was 50ppm which corals didn't like it. Since then removed the DSB and when shallow CC now doing 70-80 percent WC's and siphoning 30/40 percent of the CC at that time to remove as much detritus as possible. WC's are done every 2 or 3 weeks now like this and my no3 stays at 2.5ppm. Corals have done so much better now rather then trying to correct the water that is in the tank, i'm just not good at that aspect of reefing still lol. Also I having done the opposite as well with a BB system and stripping the water to 0 no3 that isn't the way to go either. Trying to find a happy middle ground is the goal imo Regarding your questions about large WC hurting or shocking the fish/corals... yes it can if done incorrectly or them just not getting used to it. Personally if you run the same salt and get the parameters as close to the tank with new salt water mix you should be fine. Corals being out of the water get used to it as well, just don't wait to long to refill. I rush quickly to remove and refill with out disturbing the corals or substrate except for siphoning. I'm not alone in this method IMO its super easy if you don't want to deal with chemicals and dosing things other then alk/cal. __________________ 525xl BB Last edited by brad65ford; 11/30/2015 at 10:07 PM.

11/30/2015, 11:04 PM	#22
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	I agree. I am OCD about salinity, replacement water temp and water change speed. I did a rather large water change yesterday and managed to drop the nitrate levels from. 12ppm to 8. I am also going to stuff as much live rock as I can into my sump. To bring the total amount of live rock to 1lb per gallon

11/30/2015, 11:10 PM	#23
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	I'm kicking myself for not doing a 100% water change after cycling was complete

11/30/2015, 11:18 PM	#24
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	Do you have any old filter socks or other places where detritus can build up?

12/01/2015, 10:54 PM	#25
T206 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 88	No I am pretty good at changing filter socks, carbon filter floss, etc. I think my nitrates are just built up from cycling. I'll just have to do a few large water changes to get them down.