Heater efficenty

schwebb · 11/28/2015, 04:09 PM

Is it better to over size your heater so it runs less even though it's pulling more watts?

Gorgok · 11/28/2015, 06:08 PM

Heaters are basically 100% efficient... To heat the same amount of water to the same temperature will take the same amount of energy over time.

Personally i'd rather have two heaters instead of a really big one.

karimwassef · 11/28/2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgok

Heaters are basically 100% efficient... To heat the same amount of water to the same temperature will take the same amount of energy over time.

Personally i'd rather have two heaters instead of a really big one.

+1 on redundancy.

billdogg · 11/28/2015, 06:15 PM

Pretty much what he said. Two (or more - I have 3 in one of my systems) are less likely to fry/freeze your tank when they fail.

schwebb · 11/28/2015, 06:19 PM

I'll be controlling with my Neptune so I'm comfortable with not needing two. Just curious if the power consumption would be similar

karimwassef · 11/28/2015, 06:27 PM

I use a neptune too, but two is better. It's not about controlling when it's on, it's about what happens when one stops working.

If you have two, at least you'll be able to hold half the power going.

Gorgok · 11/28/2015, 07:14 PM

Power consumption will be the same unless you change the external conditions or tank temperature no matter what heater(s) you run.

If your house/tank/equipment means you need 333W to keep it at 77* then a 500W heater or 2 250W heaters or 3 150W heaters will all still use ~333W in their on/off cycling to keep that setting. The LED in some heaters may consume an extra 0.1W or whatever and temp reading may take another watt or so per heater. Insignificant amounts though... There are enough other LEDs and junk in most setups that waste way more anyway.

schwebb · 11/28/2015, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgok

Power consumption will be the same unless you change the external conditions or tank temperature no matter what heater(s) you run.

If your house/tank/equipment means you need 333W to keep it at 77* then a 500W heater or 2 250W heaters or 3 150W heaters will all still use ~333W in their on/off cycling to keep that setting. The LED in some heaters may consume an extra 0.1W or whatever and temp reading may take another watt or so per heater. Insignificant amounts though... There are enough other LEDs and junk in most setups that waste way more anyway.

That makes sense

schwebb · 11/29/2015, 03:31 PM

Interestingly there's a lot that has to do with the amount of contact time with the water. For example leanghth of heater or two smaller heaters. Material heaters are made from to transfer heat to water etc. I which Simone could do a controlled vid comparing all of them using same water temp in two different tanks using same power heads for flow and see which heated better and power consumed

karimwassef · 11/29/2015, 05:02 PM

No it doesn't. You're talking about local temperature gradients over time, but the total heat that eventually gets to the water is the same. There is no heat that doesn't make it or gets 'lost'.

Gorgok · 11/29/2015, 05:10 PM

A smaller heater of the same wattage as a larger heater would heat the water locally (surrounding it) to a higher temperature until the heat spreads into the rest of the water. It still does the same amount of work, using the same amount of power, to heat the whole body of water to the same temperature though.

You can't get around the amount of work (and in electrical cases power) needed to heat a body of water to a desired temperature without changing other factors.

If you used a fuel fired heater of some sort, like a propane burner, it would still take the same amount of work to the water as with an electrical heater. But a propane burner is more than likely not ~100% efficient like an electrical heater is, some of the work does not go into making heat or does make heat but it doesn't go into the water we care about, and it would take more work to make up for the lost efficiency.

Material wise again it really doesn't matter. Metal heaters will transfer heat faster in general, glass and plastic are better insulators. But it will simply take longer to pass the heat through, in the end still consuming the same power to do the job though.

schwebb · 11/29/2015, 05:26 PM

Great info over it

schwebb · 11/29/2015, 05:27 PM

Love it not over it��

Fredfish · 11/29/2015, 05:51 PM

Having had heaters stuck on more than once, I always go for multiple heaters that are not quite large enough to heat the tank on their own. That way, one getting stuck on will not cook your tank.

schwebb · 11/29/2015, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredfish

Having had heaters stuck on more than once, I always go for multiple heaters that are not quite large enough to heat the tank on their own. That way, one getting stuck on will not cook your tank.

Yes I must say I preferred sushi to poached

11/28/2015, 04:09 PM	#1
schwebb Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ca. bay area Posts: 289	Heater efficenty Is it better to over size your heater so it runs less even though it's pulling more watts? __________________ Chris Current Tank Info: 120

11/28/2015, 06:15 PM	#4
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Pretty much what he said. Two (or more - I have 3 in one of my systems) are less likely to fry/freeze your tank when they fail. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

11/28/2015, 06:19 PM	#5
schwebb Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ca. bay area Posts: 289	I'll be controlling with my Neptune so I'm comfortable with not needing two. Just curious if the power consumption would be similar __________________ Chris Current Tank Info: 120

11/28/2015, 06:27 PM	#6
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	I use a neptune too, but two is better. It's not about controlling when it's on, it's about what happens when one stops working. If you have two, at least you'll be able to hold half the power going. __________________ Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

11/29/2015, 03:31 PM	#9
schwebb Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ca. bay area Posts: 289	Interestingly there's a lot that has to do with the amount of contact time with the water. For example leanghth of heater or two smaller heaters. Material heaters are made from to transfer heat to water etc. I which Simone could do a controlled vid comparing all of them using same water temp in two different tanks using same power heads for flow and see which heated better and power consumed __________________ Chris Current Tank Info: 120

11/28/2015, 06:08 PM	#2
Gorgok Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 1,904	Heaters are basically 100% efficient... To heat the same amount of water to the same temperature will take the same amount of energy over time. Personally i'd rather have two heaters instead of a really big one.

11/28/2015, 07:14 PM	#7
Gorgok Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 1,904	Power consumption will be the same unless you change the external conditions or tank temperature no matter what heater(s) you run. If your house/tank/equipment means you need 333W to keep it at 77* then a 500W heater or 2 250W heaters or 3 150W heaters will all still use ~333W in their on/off cycling to keep that setting. The LED in some heaters may consume an extra 0.1W or whatever and temp reading may take another watt or so per heater. Insignificant amounts though... There are enough other LEDs and junk in most setups that waste way more anyway.

11/29/2015, 05:02 PM	#10
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	No it doesn't. You're talking about local temperature gradients over time, but the total heat that eventually gets to the water is the same. There is no heat that doesn't make it or gets 'lost'. __________________ Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

11/29/2015, 05:10 PM	#11
Gorgok Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 1,904	A smaller heater of the same wattage as a larger heater would heat the water locally (surrounding it) to a higher temperature until the heat spreads into the rest of the water. It still does the same amount of work, using the same amount of power, to heat the whole body of water to the same temperature though. You can't get around the amount of work (and in electrical cases power) needed to heat a body of water to a desired temperature without changing other factors. If you used a fuel fired heater of some sort, like a propane burner, it would still take the same amount of work to the water as with an electrical heater. But a propane burner is more than likely not ~100% efficient like an electrical heater is, some of the work does not go into making heat or does make heat but it doesn't go into the water we care about, and it would take more work to make up for the lost efficiency. Material wise again it really doesn't matter. Metal heaters will transfer heat faster in general, glass and plastic are better insulators. But it will simply take longer to pass the heat through, in the end still consuming the same power to do the job though.

11/29/2015, 05:26 PM	#12
schwebb Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ca. bay area Posts: 289	Great info over it __________________ Chris Current Tank Info: 120

11/29/2015, 05:27 PM	#13
schwebb Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ca. bay area Posts: 289	Love it not over it�� __________________ Chris Current Tank Info: 120

11/29/2015, 05:51 PM	#14
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	Having had heaters stuck on more than once, I always go for multiple heaters that are not quite large enough to heat the tank on their own. That way, one getting stuck on will not cook your tank. __________________ Advice is like a firehose. Be careful how you drink.