LED or T5 bulbs ?

[RoachCity]

Starting up a brand new 93 gallon cube. Wanted to get peoples opinions on lighting. I've seen systems with both kinds of light do very well, I am leaning towards LED's but had a friend tell me not to. I plan to have all kinds of coral. What do you guys recommend and why ??

[adambom]

Welcome!

If you ask 100 people what the best lighting is you'll get 100 answers. That said, there are some pros and cons to each:

LEDs are cheap to run, highly controllable, last forever, and give you really great shimmer. I've seen plenty of successful SPS tanks running LEDs. That said, many of the LED options are point light sources, and can tend to create hotspots and shadows.

T5's are great too. They are a proven lighting source for growing even the most demanding corals. They have even and disperse lighting that reduces hotspots and shadows. On the other hand, they require regular bulb replacements, lack some of the controllability of LEDs, and don't give you a shimmer effect. They're somewhere between LEDs and halides in terms of energy consumption, but you probably won't need a chiller like you often do for halides.

They also make hybrid fixtures if you still can't decide. Honestly, I would probably go hybrid if I was to start over.

Personally, I'm running two Kessil A360w's on my tank, and they're great. I'm able to keep any kind of coral, including acropora, although the color and growth of my sps is moderate. LPS and softies do really well though. I have noticed that the lights cast shade and the shaded parts of my SPS don't do as well or die back in those areas.

[MaccaPopEye]

Bulk reef supply are currently doing a program on YouTube "52 weeks of reefing" and recently finished their section on lighting. They have half an hour episodes on each halides, T5 and LEDs and then another half hour episode on the lighting source they chose and why (hybrid T5, LED). Each episode goes into alot of depth about pros, cons and par etc I highly recomend looking it up and watching it.

I am still a noob but if I could go back 3 months to when I switched from T5 to LED I would have gone hybrid, LEDs as my main lights supplimented by T5. I'm currently going over ways in my head to convince my wife not to kill me if I change my lighting for the 3rd time in a year.....

[Reef Frog]

Welcome to RC.

One thing T5 has going for it:

Once you have your fixture, there are only 3 decisions to make

1 How far from the waterline you will mount it
2 What bulbs to purchase, which will create the light color you want
3 How many hours per day to run the lights

It's more or less "Set it & forget it". Modern LED fixtures are great but offer so many options for operating them that it gets some new hobbyists in trouble.

[reefbroao]

I love my LED. The best way that my LFS explained this to me is that LED is the future of reef keeping. Some people may say color is limited but it's not, they are extremely price effective, you realistically never have to replace bulbs, they are much "smarter" and more programmable. The spectrum I get from my light still blows me away, corals look great, and fish look even better.

although +1 to pop eye Supplementing with T5 is a common practice and I've seen it work with results. An old wise LFS owner once told me that this hobby is all about out managing the garbage, the more we can take out in one trip the less we have to deal with. Sort of like killing two birds with one stone, why not right? I think that;s the truest thing I've heard so far.

[A1t2o]

Both. I just bought a LED kit, but haven't set up yet, and plan on 2 bulb T5 retro to supplement. Always had T5 but I want more shimmer and bulbs cost too much every year to replace all at once to go to a 6 bulb fixture. LEDs penetrate deeper similar to metal halide, but at a fraction of the operating cost.

[sde1500]

I run t5 over my current tank. Just opened the box on the reefbreeder LED light for my new tank. I'll be able to hang the light over my tank and not have to worry about replacing bulbs for years. Not every year or 10 months like T5. Also they are so much brighter, controllable, use less energy. LED is absolutely the future. And tweaking the schedule isn't bad when you consider how many people use them successfully that are willing to share their lighting program.

[Sounds Fishy]

+1 ....for both LED and T5.

[Ron Reefman]

What reason did your friend use for saying no to leds?

They can grow anything. You can change the color of the light in your tank with the twist of a knob (dimmer). They run WAY cooler than MH and even cooler than t5. You never have to replace light bulbs. They use less electricity. You can do sunrise and sunset if you get one with a controller. The cost of good leds has come down so much in the last few years that cost shouldn't even be an issue. And once you have them set, they are even more 'set it and forget it' than t5's... no bulbs to change

What's the downside?

[Reef Frog]

Some people struggle getting LEDs right. That's my point. Not sure I want to be in that club. But of course others are reporting great success with LED. Just see the threads on the topic. Sure some are newbs but some are experienced people too. But you actually have to work out issues like:

- Some manufacturers recommendations specify too few fixtures for a given area
- Disco effect
- Hot spots/cold spots
- Shadows
- Decisions on what power level to use to avoid burning coral
- Decisions on coverage. 60,90,120 degree optics vs mounting height

Sure, T5s are quite primitive in comparison, have less flexibility, fewer options, less control and will cost you more to operate in the long run. But they have excellent even light distribution and are dirt simple to use, first time & every time. That's why some people prefer sticking to what works, they don't care about the costs and just want simplicity. Different strokes for different blokes. You'll also notice a trend of people adding T5 retro kits to high end LED systems & there's a reason for that. No approach is right or wrong - it all depends on your priorities.

It's like new cars. The new technologies are mind blowing. Some think it's wonderful. Others just crave simplicity & just want to get from here to there.

I'll have the decision to make next year when I upgrade my 6 year old 65g AIO with T5 to a 6'x2' tank. T5 has served me exceptionally well and I've got some large & valuable LPS & SPS colonies that are habituated to T5. Making the transition to even the best LED is a complicated and somewhat frightening decision. There's a lot that can go wrong in a situation like this. If I were starting a new system from scratch, frag by frag, it would be a different story & I wouldn't hesitate to take the LED plunge. I'm sure plenty of other folks are in the same position.

Apologies for beating the proverbial dead horse here and I am no means a partisan on the question. I really want LED but in the end it's all about the corals - I'd use candlelight if that was the best thing for them. For me I try to balance using the best technology with the maxim "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it".

[reefbroao]

My LED's have been programmed to match the suns pattern to the degree on both the blue and white spectrum. I don't know how much better that can get for a reef. The second I got my LED my corals thrived, I had never seen my mushroom as big as it gets now.

But as Reef Frog said it's all about the corals. Find what works for you. I like the way my leds make my reef look and that's what works for me.



FOR ANYONE USING PROGRAMMABLE LED'S: This is a great program for reef breeders.

[KMS.Kyle]

I love my Kessils - Using the 360N because I have a deep tank and It has my corals really happy and looking incredible at night with the tune blue effect.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by Reef Frog

Some people struggle getting LEDs right. That's my point. Not sure I want to be in that club. But of course others are reporting great success with LED. Just see the threads on the topic. Sure some are newbs but some are experienced people too. But you actually have to work out issues like:

- Some manufacturers recommendations specify too few fixtures for a given area
- Disco effect
- Hot spots/cold spots
- Shadows
- Decisions on what power level to use to avoid burning coral
- Decisions on coverage. 60,90,120 degree optics vs mounting height

You say you are all about whats good for the coral and then the objections you offer are about your lack of willingness to get leds right and how the light looks to you.

Some manufacturers recommendations specify too few fixtures for a given area. Seriously, that's a concern to you? You seem to already know it and I don't see much difference it the recommendations of t5 or MH sellers.

Disco effect. It is an issue. Some hate it with a passion and some don't even notice it. But I agree it is an issue and there are solutions.

Hot spots and cold spots. I don't know what that is? Care to explain so I can understand?

Shadows. Yes, leds do have more pronounced shadows. Fixture style and location can reduce the effect significantly, and I don't find shadows to really be an issue.

Decisions on what power level to use to avoid burning coral. This one is so easy a child can do it. How many t5 bulbs do I run? How many watts of MH? It's the same problem. Except that with the leds I can change that power setting with the turn of a dimmer rather than removing bulbs as you would with t5 or MH.

Decisions on coverage. 60,90,120 degree optics vs mounting height. Again, seriously? Shallow tank, 120 or 90. 24" deep use 90. Deep tank use 90 or 60. And mounting height? That's not really any different than t5 or MH. Is the area you want lit? If not, raise the light a little. It's not rocket science.

You take such simple issues and try to make them tougher to deal with than they really are. It's really quite simple. I'm not knocking t5 or MH, they both work perfectly well for keeping healthy coral. But leds just offer so many options and benefits that are hard to ignore. And now that they can be price competitive with MH and t5, you have to consider them.

[MaccaPopEye]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

You take such simple issues and try to make them tougher to deal with than they really are. It's really quite simple. I'm not knocking t5 or MH, they both work perfectly well for keeping healthy coral. But leds just offer so many options and benefits that are hard to ignore. And now that they can be price competitive with MH and t5, you have to consider them.

Here mate you seem hungry



Reef Frog makes some good points and I can certainly see how a few of those issues can be a bit difficult for newer reefers in some situations and some of them are even just personal opinion so there is no right or wrong.

You also say you aren't knocking T5 or MH but at the same time you seem to be saying that LED are the only way to go and there shouldn't be a choice about it.

They aren't the be all and end all of reefing information but the recent BRS 160 episodes on lighting were quite through and showed that individually LEDs do seem to be better than T5 or MH overall but ultimately hybrids seem to be the best because even LEDs don't have everything.

If I had watched those episodes before buying my lights I would place sustaining life easily as my number 1 quality. In the BRS 160 under the category of life support T5 and MH both scored 9.6 compared to the 7.6 that they gave LEDs. Maybe that score is only because T5 and MH have been around for years and LEDs are new, but I think it has more to do with the fact that people can throw pretty much any off the shelf T5 or MH unit over a tank and keep coral alive but there are quite a few failures with LEDs for a number of reasons.

I certainly think they should be considered, but after now going from T5 to LEDs I don't think they are necessarily better either. As I said above I think LEDs supplemented by T5 would be my preference.

[C.Eymann]

Originally Posted by MaccaPopEye

Here mate you seem hungry

Also, ronreef, you kinda answered your own questioning of the existance of "hotspots" when you admitted LEDs can create a disco effect on the sandbed, same with shadowing.

And "tuning LED fixtures is so easy a child can do it" many experienced reefers have had trouble with this when switching over to LEDs, and i don't think they were children.
It's not the same as adding or removing t-5 bulbs or selecting halide wattage like you stated.

I would like to also add that while LEDS do eliminate bulb change/cost. They do not last forever, 50,000hrs for most ? Right? And ones on more expensive units are not individually replaceable.

I think LEDs are a wonderful advancement and should be utilized where heat/energy costs are a concern. I don't think performance wise they exactly blow t5s and halides out of the water though.

There are many ways to skin a cat in this hobby.

[RoachCity]

thank you all. this was extremely entertaining and educational lol. i guess i'm kind of leaning towards a hybrid now. i like the whole sun up sun down and all the other cool function of LEDs but it sounds like t5 just make it easier to cover the whole tank and really keep those corals healthy and happy. my friend had LED and switched to t5's and his coral has doubled. he has been cutting frags since. until he told me that i was set on LED and that is why i asked this question.

[nmotz]

Originally Posted by RoachCity

thank you all. this was extremely entertaining and educational lol. i guess i'm kind of leaning towards a hybrid now. i like the whole sun up sun down and all the other cool function of LEDs but it sounds like t5 just make it easier to cover the whole tank and really keep those corals healthy and happy. my friend had LED and switched to t5's and his coral has doubled. he has been cutting frags since. until he told me that i was set on LED and that is why i asked this question.

I think the consensus is that what works for one reefer may or may not work for another. Just keep reading and enjoying the debate. It's certainly what helps me learn and make the best decisions for my tank. I just made the switch to LEDs from a simple T8 system and my new fixture arrives today. I'll be scouring Reef Central looking for all the best advice!

[MaccaPopEye]

Originally Posted by RoachCity

thank you all. this was extremely entertaining and educational lol. i guess i'm kind of leaning towards a hybrid now. i like the whole sun up sun down and all the other cool function of LEDs but it sounds like t5 just make it easier to cover the whole tank and really keep those corals healthy and happy. my friend had LED and switched to t5's and his coral has doubled. he has been cutting frags since. until he told me that i was set on LED and that is why i asked this question.

Nothing like learning and being entertained at the same time

If the sun up, sun down is important to you then I would look into having LEDs as your main light source and supplement with 2-4 T5 tubes. Have the LEDs slowly turn on in the morning and then the T5 and reverse at night. What tank size are you looking at/have?