Since we have so many new tanks this week---some advice.

Sk8r · 12/27/2015, 02:18 PM

1. read that SETTING UP sticky ^^^^ and concentrate on the setting up part of it, and the water chemistry part.
2. expect a cycle to take about 4 weeks, up to 8 if using mostly non-live rock. Do NOT 'cycle with a fish'. Cruel and unnecessary.
3. many fish stores offer excellent advice; some don't. If you're a novice, you don't know which, so if you're told something that touches off your 'huh?' reflex, come ask here.
4. as a general rule reefs (corals) are easy as fish-onlies IF you have the right equipment from the start and IF you're willing to do an easy water testing session once a week. There are lps reefs, sps reefs, and softie reefs. Mixed reefs present a few extra problems. Be sure what you're buying relative to the equipment you have, and the other corals you have. Make sure the fish you're buying don't eat corals.
5. blennies, gobies, basslets, some damsels, some dwarf angels, exotic types like lions, and some jawfish are commonly sold as adults. Mostly what you see besides those are sold incredibly tiny---relative to their adult size, which may range up to ten inches and more as adults. They grow REAL fast,as within months, and it is definitely not true that they grow only so far as their tank lets them. Some species begin stressing out and killing their tank mates as they need more room, and others just 'fail to thrive.' [EG, One of my damsels from last year is now 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a laptop screen." And fat. And pushy.]
6. shape of tank relates to fish types. Some species require a long run, hence the term '90 gallon long' vs 90 gallon.
7. reefs don't have filters: they rely on a balance of rock/sand to water volume, and the 'skimmer' removes waste by frothing it and turning it into a cup of black soup (skimmate) which you toss. Reefs also don't have bioballs. They're not rock. Some reefs have sand; some don't; but rock, yes. Reefs are also backed up by a sump and sometimes a sump with a refugium chamber for floating moss. Fish-onlies may have filters, bioballs, etc, but they can also be reeflike in reliance on sand and rock.
8. Small tanks are harder than big ones. A hundred gallon with a 30 gallon sump/fuge is a really good size for a first tank, because it has fewer limitations of what fish you can keep, and stays stable as a rock with very little maintenance. Below that size, there are problems of small scale, including chemistry; and above that size, water changes of 10% a week (recommended) get to be heavy lifting. Not to mention where to put a big tank. You can do a very successful 30 gallon starter tank, and your principal limitations are what fish you can keep: blennies and gobies are some of your best choices.
9. Develop a good relationship with your local store if at all possible: they're the guys who can get you more salt fastest, and who may help you sell off your older equipment as you get more ambitious.
10. Most of all---set up a tank that will be solid and safe with an autofeeder and an autotopoff (everybody needs one)--so you can take a weekend (or longer) absence from your tank; and don't start out with 'rare', 'exotic' ---the translation is 'often dies on you.'
11. And start out quarantining your very first fish---these guys come in exposed to things you don't want in your tank.
12. don't freak at worms: you need them. There are only 2 bad ones: google 'hermodice carunculata' and 'eunicid worm' and know what they look like. Be real careful of hitchhiker crabs. If you get a chance to catch it, do, and ask for an id. Most crabs are not good.

That file I mentioned above will cover a lot of this. But I hope you see that, sort of like learning to fly---it's a good thing to read some info before you pick out the plane, and especially before you take off.

Tautoga · 12/28/2015, 09:44 AM

Bumping

Good advice for new people

A1t2o · 12/28/2015, 10:39 AM

One thing to add: If you have experience with freshwater, that doesn't mean much of anything when it comes to reef tanks. The two systems are completely different and require very different maintenance and testing. A freshwater tank can help you get into the habit of doing water changes and thinking about water quality, but pretty much the only equipment that is useful from your freshwater tank is your tank and stand, everything else is not transferable.

Squibege · 12/28/2015, 12:00 PM

Would you say an ATO is a 'must have' for a new reefer? 'Im currently starting up a 90G with a sump thanks to Santa and am on the fence on getting one for the start up of the tank, or later once I start adding corals. TIA!

BrianKC · 12/28/2015, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squibege

Would you say an ATO is a 'must have' for a new reefer? 'Im currently starting up a 90G with a sump thanks to Santa and am on the fence on getting one for the start up of the tank, or later once I start adding corals. TIA!

It's not a "must have" as long as you stay diligent on your weekly 10% changes. As soon as you notice your weekly changes are becoming bi- or tri-weekly, then yes, it's become a must-have. One caution; don't set it directly attached to your RODI supply. Forget to turn it off or if the float switch fails, you'll have a freshwater tank.

Sk8r · 12/28/2015, 01:23 PM

Evaporation is natural for a saltwater tank---but salt doesn't evaporate. Your tank, without topoff, can become the Dead Sea real quick. My 105 gallon tank evaps over a gallon a day, and that amount varies with ambient humidity. Your salinity will stay steadier with an ATO than with waiting for you to remember to toss in a gallon of fresh water all at once. An ATO tops off by the tablespoon, not the bucket, so there's never a spike in the reading. They don't have to cost a lot. Shop for it and you'll find a wide variance in prices, styles, efficiency.

sde1500 · 12/28/2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianKC

One caution; don't set it directly attached to your RODI supply. Forget to turn it off or if the float switch fails, you'll have a ton of water on your floor and probably a lot of dead livestock.

FTFY

Great advice all around.

kmbyrnes · 12/28/2015, 05:45 PM

ATO is not a necessity but it makes reefing more fun when that daily chore becomes once or twice a week.
I like feeding so that is not as much of an issue

insane · 12/28/2015, 05:59 PM

RESEARCH the livestock BEFORE you buy it. If you don't do that you can be giving it a death sentence.

Do not buy anything labeled as Expert Only. It will die in the hands of a noob.

Most LFS are there to sell you whatever they can. Do your own research online. Find out yourself what it takes to keep an animal before you buy it.

matt 76 · 12/28/2015, 11:41 PM

Lots of great advise sk8r.
As far as an ATO like the above people mentioned, they make the hobby less complicated. Im using an aqua lifter pump from a 5 gallon bucket under my tank. The bucket has a float valve plumbed directly to the RODI unit. The Aqua lifter is automated via Apex controller with float switches in the sump. Before entering the sump the top off water goes through a Kalkwasser reactor as well. Raising ph, adding alk and calcium.

You can do a simple setup, or you can do a more complex setup with fail safes. Once you start doing some reading on here and seeing different peoples setups, you will see what will work for you and your budget.
Just my 2 cents! Most of all enjoy the hobby!

rsain · 01/03/2016, 11:57 AM

Bump.

uncleL · 01/03/2016, 01:37 PM

Ato, ato, ato.......it makes life easy! Lol

toothybugs · 01/03/2016, 09:12 PM

Bump - I noticed this on the second page and didn't want it lost. I noticed a lot of new tanks on Page 1 so seeing this was welcomed.

rsain · 01/12/2016, 09:54 AM

Bump again.

vertigo01 · 01/13/2016, 02:04 PM

Going to throw my bump, in.
Wish the interwebs were around when I first started, would have saved me bundles.

thelawnwrangler · 01/13/2016, 02:35 PM

I am in the ugly stage

Dmorty217 · 01/13/2016, 03:10 PM

ATO is nice to have, same with a digital refractometer... I will say a controller, especially for heaters. Heaters always fail on and if your not paying close attention temps will quickly rise resulting in death of most all inverts and eventually fish if left to get too hot. Controller will allow you to control the heater via only supplying power when the temp falls below the set point. Read,read and then read some more. This hobby is measured in months and years, not days and weeks...

Kmoe86pisces · 01/13/2016, 08:42 PM

Hello I'm new to the hobby my names Karina moe and I'm a 29 year old student from Oregon thanks for all the great posts sk8r! Hey quick question how do I see if anyone's responded to my replys or posts? As I cannot find mine anywhere please email me at Moekarina918@gmail.com thanks so much for all the help!

Kmoe86pisces · 01/13/2016, 08:44 PM

Anyone who knows where I can find replys to my posts would be awesome sauce!

Sk8r · 01/13/2016, 10:15 PM

Replies to your posts would show after the post. I can go into the upstairs and see if your posts have cleared moderation. Note: none are showing anywhere except those you have just made here, not as threads, not as posts. Are you sure you're pushing 'post quick reply' after inputting your post?

To Reef Central

Dmorty217 · 01/14/2016, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmoe86pisces

Anyone who knows where I can find replys to my posts would be awesome sauce!

If you click on your name in the upper right hand corner there will then be a "statistics" button and you will be able to see "all posts" and "all threads started " by yourself and see replies more quickly

insane · 01/14/2016, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmoe86pisces

Anyone who knows where I can find replys to my posts would be awesome sauce!

Anytime you start a thread or respond to a post in a thread it subscribes you to that thread.

If you click on the "My RC" button at the top of any page it will show you a list of your subscribed posts that have new responses.

If you subscribe to your favorite forums they will also be listed there.

You can subscribe to threads without posting in them by clicking on the "Thread Tools" at the top of a thread and then click on "Subscribe to this thread" to make your choice of how you want to be notified.

rsain · 01/14/2016, 09:25 AM

And the procedure is similar if using Talatalk. Just go to the RC forum then click "subscribed" tab. There is also a "participated" tab.

-ryan

12/27/2015, 02:18 PM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Since we have so many new tanks this week---some advice. 1. read that SETTING UP sticky ^^^^ and concentrate on the setting up part of it, and the water chemistry part. 2. expect a cycle to take about 4 weeks, up to 8 if using mostly non-live rock. Do NOT 'cycle with a fish'. Cruel and unnecessary. 3. many fish stores offer excellent advice; some don't. If you're a novice, you don't know which, so if you're told something that touches off your 'huh?' reflex, come ask here. 4. as a general rule reefs (corals) are easy as fish-onlies IF you have the right equipment from the start and IF you're willing to do an easy water testing session once a week. There are lps reefs, sps reefs, and softie reefs. Mixed reefs present a few extra problems. Be sure what you're buying relative to the equipment you have, and the other corals you have. Make sure the fish you're buying don't eat corals. 5. blennies, gobies, basslets, some damsels, some dwarf angels, exotic types like lions, and some jawfish are commonly sold as adults. Mostly what you see besides those are sold incredibly tiny---relative to their adult size, which may range up to ten inches and more as adults. They grow REAL fast,as within months, and it is definitely not true that they grow only so far as their tank lets them. Some species begin stressing out and killing their tank mates as they need more room, and others just 'fail to thrive.' [EG, One of my damsels from last year is now 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a laptop screen." And fat. And pushy.] 6. shape of tank relates to fish types. Some species require a long run, hence the term '90 gallon long' vs 90 gallon. 7. reefs don't have filters: they rely on a balance of rock/sand to water volume, and the 'skimmer' removes waste by frothing it and turning it into a cup of black soup (skimmate) which you toss. Reefs also don't have bioballs. They're not rock. Some reefs have sand; some don't; but rock, yes. Reefs are also backed up by a sump and sometimes a sump with a refugium chamber for floating moss. Fish-onlies may have filters, bioballs, etc, but they can also be reeflike in reliance on sand and rock. 8. Small tanks are harder than big ones. A hundred gallon with a 30 gallon sump/fuge is a really good size for a first tank, because it has fewer limitations of what fish you can keep, and stays stable as a rock with very little maintenance. Below that size, there are problems of small scale, including chemistry; and above that size, water changes of 10% a week (recommended) get to be heavy lifting. Not to mention where to put a big tank. You can do a very successful 30 gallon starter tank, and your principal limitations are what fish you can keep: blennies and gobies are some of your best choices. 9. Develop a good relationship with your local store if at all possible: they're the guys who can get you more salt fastest, and who may help you sell off your older equipment as you get more ambitious. 10. Most of all---set up a tank that will be solid and safe with an autofeeder and an autotopoff (everybody needs one)--so you can take a weekend (or longer) absence from your tank; and don't start out with 'rare', 'exotic' ---the translation is 'often dies on you.' 11. And start out quarantining your very first fish---these guys come in exposed to things you don't want in your tank. 12. don't freak at worms: you need them. There are only 2 bad ones: google 'hermodice carunculata' and 'eunicid worm' and know what they look like. Be real careful of hitchhiker crabs. If you get a chance to catch it, do, and ask for an id. Most crabs are not good. That file I mentioned above will cover a lot of this. But I hope you see that, sort of like learning to fly---it's a good thing to read some info before you pick out the plane, and especially before you take off. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 12/29/2015 at 05:11 PM.

12/28/2015, 01:23 PM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Evaporation is natural for a saltwater tank---but salt doesn't evaporate. Your tank, without topoff, can become the Dead Sea real quick. My 105 gallon tank evaps over a gallon a day, and that amount varies with ambient humidity. Your salinity will stay steadier with an ATO than with waiting for you to remember to toss in a gallon of fresh water all at once. An ATO tops off by the tablespoon, not the bucket, so there's never a spike in the reading. They don't have to cost a lot. Shop for it and you'll find a wide variance in prices, styles, efficiency. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

12/28/2015, 05:45 PM	#8
kmbyrnes Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 2,055	ATO is not a necessity but it makes reefing more fun when that daily chore becomes once or twice a week. I like feeding so that is not as much of an issue __________________ 125g Mixed Reef 5/26/2015; 350 Butterfly Dominated FOWLR 11/26/2015 - 11/17/20217 & 07/31/18 to ??? ; 100g Mixed Reef 11/16/2013 to 06/16/2017 Current Tank Info: Too small

12/28/2015, 11:41 PM	#10
matt 76 Reefing is an addiction! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 175	Lots of great advise sk8r. As far as an ATO like the above people mentioned, they make the hobby less complicated. Im using an aqua lifter pump from a 5 gallon bucket under my tank. The bucket has a float valve plumbed directly to the RODI unit. The Aqua lifter is automated via Apex controller with float switches in the sump. Before entering the sump the top off water goes through a Kalkwasser reactor as well. Raising ph, adding alk and calcium. You can do a simple setup, or you can do a more complex setup with fail safes. Once you start doing some reading on here and seeing different peoples setups, you will see what will work for you and your budget. Just my 2 cents! Most of all enjoy the hobby! __________________ 250 DD starphire, Apex controller, 4 t5s, 2 G5 XR15 Blue ,Geo Kalk reactor, geo 618, 2 MP60QD, Fluval SP6 return pump, Bubble King supermarin 250, Lots of tangs Current Tank Info: 250 DD

01/03/2016, 11:57 AM	#11
rsain Empiricism's Evangelist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 119	Bump. __________________ "The methods of science have been enormously successful wherever they have been tried. Let us then apply them to human affairs." - BFS "You can't fix with statistics what you buggered by design." - d Current Tank Info: They have water.

12/28/2015, 09:44 AM	#2
Tautoga Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 113	Bumping Good advice for new people

12/28/2015, 10:39 AM	#3
A1t2o Moved On Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Mankato, MN Posts: 382	One thing to add: If you have experience with freshwater, that doesn't mean much of anything when it comes to reef tanks. The two systems are completely different and require very different maintenance and testing. A freshwater tank can help you get into the habit of doing water changes and thinking about water quality, but pretty much the only equipment that is useful from your freshwater tank is your tank and stand, everything else is not transferable.

12/28/2015, 12:00 PM	#4
Squibege Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 157	Would you say an ATO is a 'must have' for a new reefer? 'Im currently starting up a 90G with a sump thanks to Santa and am on the fence on getting one for the start up of the tank, or later once I start adding corals. TIA!

12/28/2015, 05:59 PM	#9
insane Moved On Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: under your bed Posts: 771 Blog Entries: 7	RESEARCH the livestock BEFORE you buy it. If you don't do that you can be giving it a death sentence. Do not buy anything labeled as Expert Only. It will die in the hands of a noob. Most LFS are there to sell you whatever they can. Do your own research online. Find out yourself what it takes to keep an animal before you buy it.

01/03/2016, 01:37 PM	#12
uncleL Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: NC Posts: 411	Ato, ato, ato.......it makes life easy! Lol __________________ Current Tank Info: 75g QT, 90g DT, 180g under construction Current Tank Info: 150 Gallon setting up slowly, 90 Gallon Mixed Reef No Sump 3 Tangs,, 4 Clowns, Lawnmower Blenny, Coral Beauty, Coralband Shrimp, Cleaner Shrimp, Snails, Zoas, Mushrooms, FrogsSpawn, Toadstools, FeatherDuster, Xenias, Anemones,29g, 20g

01/03/2016, 09:12 PM	#13
toothybugs In Memoriam Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: The smallest county in Illinois Posts: 1,986	Bump - I noticed this on the second page and didn't want it lost. I noticed a lot of new tanks on Page 1 so seeing this was welcomed.

01/12/2016, 09:54 AM	#14
rsain Empiricism's Evangelist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 119	Bump again. __________________ "The methods of science have been enormously successful wherever they have been tried. Let us then apply them to human affairs." - BFS "You can't fix with statistics what you buggered by design." - d Current Tank Info: They have water.

01/13/2016, 02:04 PM	#15
vertigo01 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 87	Going to throw my bump, in. Wish the interwebs were around when I first started, would have saved me bundles.

01/13/2016, 02:35 PM	#16
thelawnwrangler Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 863	I am in the ugly stage

01/13/2016, 03:10 PM	#17
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	ATO is nice to have, same with a digital refractometer... I will say a controller, especially for heaters. Heaters always fail on and if your not paying close attention temps will quickly rise resulting in death of most all inverts and eventually fish if left to get too hot. Controller will allow you to control the heater via only supplying power when the temp falls below the set point. Read,read and then read some more. This hobby is measured in months and years, not days and weeks... __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

01/13/2016, 08:42 PM	#18
Kmoe86pisces Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Forest grove Oregon Posts: 4	Can't find my posts Hello I'm new to the hobby my names Karina moe and I'm a 29 year old student from Oregon thanks for all the great posts sk8r! Hey quick question how do I see if anyone's responded to my replys or posts? As I cannot find mine anywhere please email me at Moekarina918@gmail.com thanks so much for all the help!

01/13/2016, 08:44 PM	#19
Kmoe86pisces Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Forest grove Oregon Posts: 4	Anyone who knows where I can find replys to my posts would be awesome sauce!

01/13/2016, 10:15 PM	#20
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Replies to your posts would show after the post. I can go into the upstairs and see if your posts have cleared moderation. Note: none are showing anywhere except those you have just made here, not as threads, not as posts. Are you sure you're pushing 'post quick reply' after inputting your post? *To Reef Central* __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/14/2016, 09:25 AM	#23
rsain Empiricism's Evangelist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 119	Since we have so many new tanks this week---some advice. And the procedure is similar if using Talatalk. Just go to the RC forum then click "subscribed" tab. There is also a "participated" tab. -ryan __________________ "The methods of science have been enormously successful wherever they have been tried. Let us then apply them to human affairs." - BFS "You can't fix with statistics what you buggered by design." - d Current Tank Info: They have water. Last edited by rsain; 01/14/2016 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Ugh... Grammar