To drill or not to drill.

Koop · 01/19/2016, 09:09 PM

I currently have a 120 gallon tall tank with an overflow box inside and out and utubes to siphon over the rim. I can turn the power off and on at will with no flooding of the wet dry filter.

I would like to convert from freshwater to salt now. Eventually becoming a reef tank. I will use a baffled 33 long for my sump. Skimmer then refugium then return.

As I read through the forums most people recommend a drilled tank. What is it I am missing here. I have had no problems with my freshwater set up. Will the sump change the equation somehow? Not sure if the glass is tempered or not or it is worth the risk and work o drill.

Thanks for any light you shed on this for me.

Drewl117 · 01/19/2016, 09:15 PM

To check for tempered glass all you need is a laptop and some polarized glasses... There's videos on YouTube. When the tank is empty put the laptop in the tank and not wearing the glasses but looking through them and move them at different angles. If it's tempered you will see lines ont the laptop if it isn't there will be no lines.

Koop · 01/19/2016, 09:25 PM

Thanks Drew. I called two local glass shops about telling if the glass was tempered. One said he could usually just tell by the sound. The other said they would know it was tempered if it shattered into a million pieces when they started drilling the holes. Lol

leviburns89 · 01/19/2016, 09:49 PM

I agree with the "laptop" test. Most sunglasses are polarized now, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Once you are certain you won't destroy your tank, I would highly recommend drilling it.

The biggest benefit to any tank, is simply water volume. And added bonus, is being able to keep all of your equipment in the sump, and out of view. This also allows you to run a top of the line skimmer, and add endless options for filtration.

My 55g is tempered bottom and back. It is a 1990s model. But I would go on a limb and say your backglass is probably not tempered, considering you have a 120. In which case, drill away (carefully)

The tank you are envisioning has enormous potential, and if you have the option to add a sump, you would be adding a ton of risk by not adding one.

Drewl117 · 01/19/2016, 11:04 PM

You can drill it yourself very easily. Just get the right size bit and bulkheads and drill away. Don't go to close to the top and take your time and use lots of water for coolant and lube. I like to put tape on the inside so the piece of glass dosent fall.

Ztous · 01/19/2016, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koop

Thanks Drew. I called two local glass shops about telling if the glass was tempered. One said he could usually just tell by the sound. The other said they would know it was tempered if it shattered into a million pieces when they started drilling the holes. Lol

I wouldn't use either. If they can't tell the difference 100% they are a lousy shop.

Teecz · 01/19/2016, 11:55 PM

Drill it, it's super simple I just did mine it was a lot easier than I thought it would be. I would use a drill guide though like this one

sfdan · 01/20/2016, 04:06 AM

Drilling really isn't that hard and most reefers would take a drilled tank over a non-drilled tank in a second. It just is one less thing to worry about, and there are already enough things to worry about.

Beldarr · 01/20/2016, 06:27 AM

I was scared to death two months ago when drilling mine. Watched some great videos on Youtube, and after all that fear, realized it was one of easiest things I had ever done. Buy your drill bits from Amazon. They are much cheaper there than at your local stores.

Koop · 01/20/2016, 09:06 AM

Thanks for all the drilling tips. I'm not trying to be obtuse but why is a drilled tank less risky than my current setup?

leviburns89 · 01/20/2016, 11:22 AM

Loss prevention. A siphoning system may work for years, and in one moment go terribly wrong.

By drilling your tank, you can have 2 overflows so in the off chance that one plugs, the other is there for a backup.

Also, a power outage can cause back siphoning, or worse, you return pump shuts off, but your siphon continues to put your entire display tank volume in your sump.

JWClark · 01/20/2016, 11:35 AM

If it has worked for your fresh water system it will work for your salt water system. Just do the math to ensure the sump is large enough to handle any additional back siphon volume. Also ensure that there is enough room left in the tank to handle all the water in the sump without overflowing should the overflow become clogged, or reduced.

Worst case would be a burnt out pump if all the water got pushed to your tank. Drilled is just an "ideal" situation, that's all.

sde1500 · 01/20/2016, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leviburns89

Loss prevention. A siphoning system may work for years, and in one moment go terribly wrong.

By drilling your tank, you can have 2 overflows so in the off chance that one plugs, the other is there for a backup.

Also, a power outage can cause back siphoning, or worse, you return pump shuts off, but your siphon continues to put your entire display tank volume in your sump.

Not exactly right, the HOB overflow would only siphon until the water level doesn't reach the overflow any longer.

I just started running a tank with a HOB overflow. Works great, turned off the return multiple times, sometimes left it off for a few days while it was cycling. The siphon always started working right away after the return pump started again. Only thing I am worried about and probably will have to work on is the other scenarios people have mentioned, if the overflow stops working, pretty sure the return pump would overflow my tank. Probably will lower the level in the DT, but also thinking, could a float valve work? Never used one, but I figure I could set it up to turn the pump off if water level in the DT starts to rise.

leviburns89 · 01/20/2016, 03:19 PM

I have read of people using a float switch as a fail safe. The more redundancy in a system the better imo

jrp1588 · 01/20/2016, 03:27 PM

I like a drilled tank vs a HOB overflow for the clean install mostly. I hated the look of the HOB overflows. Second, I had a really hard time getting my old HOB overflow to be quiet.

Also, it's very easy. It just takes patience and above all, TIME. When I drilled my 125gal a few weeks ago, each hole took 20 minutes. Let the bit do the work, don't press down, keep it wet, and you'll be fine.

Koop · 01/20/2016, 07:39 PM

I agree JRP. My only complaint on my overflow is that is noisy from time to time. I have never been able to make it reliably quiet. A drilled tank will be silent? My wife would love that. The salt tank would go up a few notches in her book if it doesn't gurgle like the current one. "Honey I know the reef tank is expensive but at least our living room is quiet now". Haha

jrp1588 · 01/20/2016, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koop

I agree JRP. My only complaint on my overflow is that is noisy from time to time. I have never been able to make it reliably quiet. A drilled tank will be silent? My wife would love that. The salt tank would go up a few notches in her book if it doesn't gurgle like the current one. "Honey I know the reef tank is expensive but at least our living room is quiet now". Haha

Depending on the setup, it can be completely silent. Look into a bean animal style setup. Glass holes makes a ready made option. I think there is also a ghost overflow, but I forget who makes that. I installed the glass holes option, but don't have the tank running yet to give a review.

zethimus · 01/20/2016, 07:51 PM

I drilled my first tank to use the BeanAnimal overflow. Essentially 3 drains and 1 return. My only mishap was drilling the return a bit too low on the tank, so too much water was flowing back into the sump when pumps were off. You can solve that by driling higher or using some lock line.

sde1500 · 01/21/2016, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrp1588

Depending on the setup, it can be completely silent. Look into a bean animal style setup. Glass holes makes a ready made option. I think there is also a ghost overflow, but I forget who makes that. I installed the glass holes option, but don't have the tank running yet to give a review.

Synergy makes a ghost overflow.

gigamanx · 01/21/2016, 08:47 AM

Just drilled the beananimal holes for my tank also. You can see the pics. I used the laptop/polarized glasses trick and watched a few youtube videos before getting started. No issues at all and now I can plumb. I am using a 40g sump because PetCo had a $1 per gallon sale on tanks. I don't think you'll find a 33g tank at a better price.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538438

Koop · 01/22/2016, 03:57 PM

OK you convinced me. Once my freshwater guys find a new home and I drain the tank I will do the laptop test. Assuming it is not tempered I will drill.

My next request would be for a little guidance on hole size/location and overflow deign and build. I have quite a bit of acrylic left over from a clear rail deck I removed for a customer. With a little Weld On 4 it seams like I can build any size overflow I want.

I searched around, but got quickly overwhelmed by all the pictures.

Anybody with a design they love?

Needs to handle around 1000 GPH seems like. Is that right?

Thanks Everyone!

01/19/2016, 09:09 PM	#1
Koop Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Madison, VA Posts: 79	To drill or not to drill. I currently have a 120 gallon tall tank with an overflow box inside and out and utubes to siphon over the rim. I can turn the power off and on at will with no flooding of the wet dry filter. I would like to convert from freshwater to salt now. Eventually becoming a reef tank. I will use a baffled 33 long for my sump. Skimmer then refugium then return. As I read through the forums most people recommend a drilled tank. What is it I am missing here. I have had no problems with my freshwater set up. Will the sump change the equation somehow? Not sure if the glass is tempered or not or it is worth the risk and work o drill. Thanks for any light you shed on this for me.

01/20/2016, 11:35 AM	#12
JWClark Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: MD Posts: 576	If it has worked for your fresh water system it will work for your salt water system. Just do the math to ensure the sump is large enough to handle any additional back siphon volume. Also ensure that there is enough room left in the tank to handle all the water in the sump without overflowing should the overflow become clogged, or reduced. Worst case would be a burnt out pump if all the water got pushed to your tank. Drilled is just an "ideal" situation, that's all. __________________ Back after a 13yr hiatus--much to my wife's dismay. Though she sure loves looking at the tank and feeding the fish! Current Tank Info: Reefer 450 seed tank for the retirement 315gal Reef Savvy build.

01/19/2016, 09:15 PM	#2
Drewl117 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: NH Posts: 507	To check for tempered glass all you need is a laptop and some polarized glasses... There's videos on YouTube. When the tank is empty put the laptop in the tank and not wearing the glasses but looking through them and move them at different angles. If it's tempered you will see lines ont the laptop if it isn't there will be no lines.

01/19/2016, 09:25 PM	#3
Koop Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Madison, VA Posts: 79	Thanks Drew. I called two local glass shops about telling if the glass was tempered. One said he could usually just tell by the sound. The other said they would know it was tempered if it shattered into a million pieces when they started drilling the holes. Lol

01/19/2016, 09:49 PM	#4
leviburns89 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 652	I agree with the "laptop" test. Most sunglasses are polarized now, so that shouldn't be an issue. Once you are certain you won't destroy your tank, I would highly recommend drilling it. The biggest benefit to any tank, is simply water volume. And added bonus, is being able to keep all of your equipment in the sump, and out of view. This also allows you to run a top of the line skimmer, and add endless options for filtration. My 55g is tempered bottom and back. It is a 1990s model. But I would go on a limb and say your backglass is probably not tempered, considering you have a 120. In which case, drill away (carefully) The tank you are envisioning has enormous potential, and if you have the option to add a sump, you would be adding a ton of risk by not adding one.

01/19/2016, 11:04 PM	#5
Drewl117 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: NH Posts: 507	You can drill it yourself very easily. Just get the right size bit and bulkheads and drill away. Don't go to close to the top and take your time and use lots of water for coolant and lube. I like to put tape on the inside so the piece of glass dosent fall.

01/19/2016, 11:55 PM	#7
Teecz Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 108	Drill it, it's super simple I just did mine it was a lot easier than I thought it would be. I would use a drill guide though like this one

01/20/2016, 04:06 AM	#8
sfdan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: San Francisco Posts: 451	Drilling really isn't that hard and most reefers would take a drilled tank over a non-drilled tank in a second. It just is one less thing to worry about, and there are already enough things to worry about.

01/20/2016, 06:27 AM	#9
Beldarr Registered Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Pickerington, OH Posts: 50	I was scared to death two months ago when drilling mine. Watched some great videos on Youtube, and after all that fear, realized it was one of easiest things I had ever done. Buy your drill bits from Amazon. They are much cheaper there than at your local stores.

01/20/2016, 09:06 AM	#10
Koop Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Madison, VA Posts: 79	Thanks for all the drilling tips. I'm not trying to be obtuse but why is a drilled tank less risky than my current setup?

01/20/2016, 11:22 AM	#11
leviburns89 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 652	Loss prevention. A siphoning system may work for years, and in one moment go terribly wrong. By drilling your tank, you can have 2 overflows so in the off chance that one plugs, the other is there for a backup. Also, a power outage can cause back siphoning, or worse, you return pump shuts off, but your siphon continues to put your entire display tank volume in your sump.

01/20/2016, 03:19 PM	#14
leviburns89 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 652	I have read of people using a float switch as a fail safe. The more redundancy in a system the better imo

01/20/2016, 03:27 PM	#15
jrp1588 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,864	I like a drilled tank vs a HOB overflow for the clean install mostly. I hated the look of the HOB overflows. Second, I had a really hard time getting my old HOB overflow to be quiet. Also, it's very easy. It just takes patience and above all, TIME. When I drilled my 125gal a few weeks ago, each hole took 20 minutes. Let the bit do the work, don't press down, keep it wet, and you'll be fine.

01/20/2016, 07:39 PM	#16
Koop Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Madison, VA Posts: 79	I agree JRP. My only complaint on my overflow is that is noisy from time to time. I have never been able to make it reliably quiet. A drilled tank will be silent? My wife would love that. The salt tank would go up a few notches in her book if it doesn't gurgle like the current one. "Honey I know the reef tank is expensive but at least our living room is quiet now". Haha

01/20/2016, 07:51 PM	#18
zethimus Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 16	I drilled my first tank to use the BeanAnimal overflow. Essentially 3 drains and 1 return. My only mishap was drilling the return a bit too low on the tank, so too much water was flowing back into the sump when pumps were off. You can solve that by driling higher or using some lock line.

01/21/2016, 08:47 AM	#20
gigamanx Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Hershey, PA Posts: 77	Just drilled the beananimal holes for my tank also. You can see the pics. I used the laptop/polarized glasses trick and watched a few youtube videos before getting started. No issues at all and now I can plumb. I am using a 40g sump because PetCo had a $1 per gallon sale on tanks. I don't think you'll find a 33g tank at a better price. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538438

01/22/2016, 03:57 PM	#21
Koop Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Madison, VA Posts: 79	OK you convinced me. Once my freshwater guys find a new home and I drain the tank I will do the laptop test. Assuming it is not tempered I will drill. My next request would be for a little guidance on hole size/location and overflow deign and build. I have quite a bit of acrylic left over from a clear rail deck I removed for a customer. With a little Weld On 4 it seams like I can build any size overflow I want. I searched around, but got quickly overwhelmed by all the pictures. Anybody with a design they love? Needs to handle around 1000 GPH seems like. Is that right? Thanks Everyone!