Purchasing from Diver's Den

SteveMSE · 04/06/2016, 09:58 AM

I'm curious if anyone has purchased from Diver's Den recently and what their experience was like. We purchased a fish from Diver's Den a few weeks back and were confident after reading reviews, their processes of quarantining fish and getting them to eat in an aquarium before shipping. I had also read several reviews where they reimbursed not only the price of the fish/inverts that was purchased if they died, but also the cost of shipping if the entire order was lost.

Unfortunately, our experience was not as great as I had hoped. The fish arrived in a comatose and near dead state but came around slowly. I somewhat expected similar but was surprised to see it floating on it's side at the top of the bag. After following their acclimation process to a literal 'T,' I was surprised to see the fish was very skinny. Over the next few days I tried to feed it every type of food I could get my hands on ranging from LRS Reef Frenzy, to pellets, flakes, whole mysis, live pods, and even bloodworms to no avail. The fish never showed any hint of a feeding response. I really wonder if the fish had ever actually been quarantined and fed at the store as it is guaranteed. Needless to say, we lost the fish from starvation after about 7 days and they refunded us only the price of the fish.

I was expecting to do more business through them but I don't know if I can really expect better results in the future.

snorvich · 04/06/2016, 10:04 AM

They do not quarantine and urge users to do so,.

SteveMSE · 04/06/2016, 10:07 AM

Directly from Diver's Den on their acclimation process:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...al_pagesid=425

snorvich · 04/06/2016, 10:12 AM

Proper quarantine would increase the price by about double. And what is worse, they run a non-therapeutic level of copper.

GimpyFin · 04/06/2016, 10:13 AM

I've had really good results overall from DD. Although, oddly enough, I have had an instance or two with fish that would not eat (Easy to keep fish.) Their customer service is great and they are pretty good about giving you credit back.

snorvich · 04/06/2016, 10:15 AM

From their website.

SteveMSE · 04/06/2016, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snorvich

From their website.

I'm not arguing that it's a good idea to quarantine at home, and the fish was introduced into a quarantine tank. My point is that they tote the Diver's Den fish as quarantined and feeding. They even provide a list of foods that the fish you purchased has been being fed. Which was clearly not the case.

snorvich · 04/06/2016, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMSE

I'm not arguing that it's a good idea to quarantine at home, and the fish was introduced into a quarantine tank. My point is that they tote the Diver's Den fish as quarantined and feeding. They even provide a list of foods that the fish you purchased has been being fed. Which was clearly not the case.

Trust no one but your self to quarantine. There have been lots of examples of fish coming in from them with velvet, ich, uronema. Five weeks minimum.

snorvich · 04/06/2016, 10:38 AM

Don't get me wrong, they are the only place I purchase from.

oflaherty21 · 04/06/2016, 10:47 AM

I've had pretty good success with DD. I ordered my original clean up crew and a few fish from them. Everything was healthy except a shrimp that died and they gave me credit no questions asked.

Bent · 04/06/2016, 11:02 AM

I do agree that the description on these animals is false. They say "fully quarantined and eating a mix of _____ and ____."

That's an all out lie. They even had that same thing in the description of a blue ribbon eel a while back.

Dmorty217 · 04/06/2016, 11:05 AM

I don't understand what the issue is here... They give you your money back if something dies within 2 weeks. Yes what you got came in poorly and like Steve mentioned you still need to QT what you get from them. It's only smart to anyway since you more than likely have significantly more money in your DT livestock than you do in the fish you're purchasing. DD fish are conditioned, not QTed. They are however treated for things that's show themselves when in their care. Copper is run though, and that will only mask disease if the fish has been in the system for less than 30 days. Depending on the dose of copper it may not effectively treat disease anyway

moatdaddy · 04/06/2016, 11:07 AM

Lol here comes the reef central law firm. This thread will be swept into the sponsor review section shortly.

CStrickland · 04/06/2016, 11:07 AM

What kind of fish was it?

MondoBongo · 04/06/2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent

I do agree that the description on these animals is false. They say "fully quarantined and eating a mix of _____ and ____."

That's an all out lie. They even had that same thing in the description of a blue ribbon eel a while back.

i've had two orders from DD in the past few years, one was a clam, the other was my pair of OSFF. the clam sadly didn't make it, but they reimbursed me the cost of the animal (minus shipping which makes sense) with no hassle.

the OSFF pair came in looking incredibly healthy, well fed, and ate what they told me they ate (hikari myses in this case).

so for my part, i've had good experiences with them.

i can understand the OPs confusion and frustration though. they can seem to have some conflicting information on their site in regards to what really constitutes "quarantine".

Quote:

Originally Posted by moatdaddy

Lol here comes the reef central law firm. This thread will be swept into the sponsor review section shortly.

i'm confused, wouldn't that be the correct place for it? is that a bad thing?

hkgar · 04/06/2016, 01:22 PM

Bad acclimation!

Here is S8tr's thread on bag death and proper acclimation.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ht=acclimation

Dmorty217 · 04/06/2016, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moatdaddy

Lol here comes the reef central law firm. This thread will be swept into the sponsor review section shortly.

I think I maybe take offense to this comment. I have as much to do with reef central as you or anyone else that's commented here besides Steve. This is the second thread in a couple months that the OP claims something is a miss with DD, when in fact it's due to end user error in acclimation of fish. Even with all that, they received a refund...

hkgar · 04/06/2016, 02:17 PM

I have 19 fish in my tank and they all came from LA or DD.

Yes I have had a couple that I lost - wrasses, but always got credits or refunds no questions asked.

No more problems with Wrasses not making it after I read the thread I posted above about acclimation.

I also do TTM with Prazi Pro, and then QT for another 3-4 weeks

water is wet · 04/06/2016, 02:22 PM

And just because it won't eat anything now does NOT mean it wasn't eating in their care. Seems silly to think otherwise.

Ou8me2 · 04/06/2016, 02:31 PM

No matter how long a place claims to QT fish or corals. You should always do your own QT. I have a QT for Fish and QT for Corals. I QT for 6-8 weeks. You don't need some extravagant tank,lights or filtration for a QT tank.
Yes, it's a added expense, but what happens if you add 1 fish to say your 5-6+ fish DT and it has an illness and kills all the fish? How much have you just lost $$ wise?

CStrickland · 04/06/2016, 02:53 PM

OP said they followed the DD acclimation instruction, and had their own QT set up.
All OP was asking is whether anyone else had a similar experience where a DD fish starved despite following the instructions. Like whether stuff like this just happens sometimes even when you do what you're supposed to and order from top shelf sellers.

The bad news is, it does. And while it feels unfair that you don't get the shipping refunded (like, why should I pay $30 for someone to send me a half dead fish) that's just the way it is. It kinda balances out though because they are generous with the refunds in the first place. Like you don't usually have to send back the corpse for an autopsy or something to prove you aren't scamming them. So I can see why they wouldn't go so far as to cover shipping as well.
Better luck next time!

Sometimes its like people get so excited to lecture about QT or jump on someone for being dissatisfied with a retailer, they don't even read the post.

snorvich · 04/06/2016, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CStrickland

OP said they followed the DD acclimation instruction,

Which is not best practice. I can assure you, I did read the OP post.

lionfish300 · 04/06/2016, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CStrickland

OP said they followed the DD acclimation instruction, and had their own QT set up.
All OP was asking is whether anyone else had a similar experience where a DD fish starved despite following the instructions. Like whether stuff like this just happens sometimes even when you do what you're supposed to and order from top shelf sellers.

The bad news is, it does. And while it feels unfair that you don't get the shipping refunded (like, why should I pay $30 for someone to send me a half dead fish) that's just the way it is. It kinda balances out though because they are generous with the refunds in the first place. Like you don't usually have to send back the corpse for an autopsy or something to prove you aren't scamming them. So I can see why they wouldn't go so far as to cover shipping as well.
Better luck next time! Thanks you for taking the time to post this, most just to quick to blame and tell people what to do rather understand the question op have

Sometimes its like people get so excited to lecture about QT or jump on someone for being dissatisfied with a retailer, they don't even read the post.

SteveMSE · 04/06/2016, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CStrickland

OP said they followed the DD acclimation instruction, and had their own QT set up.
All OP was asking is whether anyone else had a similar experience where a DD fish starved despite following the instructions. Like whether stuff like this just happens sometimes even when you do what you're supposed to and order from top shelf sellers.

The bad news is, it does. And while it feels unfair that you don't get the shipping refunded (like, why should I pay $30 for someone to send me a half dead fish) that's just the way it is. It kinda balances out though because they are generous with the refunds in the first place. Like you don't usually have to send back the corpse for an autopsy or something to prove you aren't scamming them. So I can see why they wouldn't go so far as to cover shipping as well.
Better luck next time!

Sometimes its like people get so excited to lecture about QT or jump on someone for being dissatisfied with a retailer, they don't even read the post.

Well at least some people aren't ready to jump down my throat with both feet and tell me that everything I did was wrong and attempt to make me feel like I was scamming a company by getting a refund on a dead fish. I was by no means complaining about their guarantee or service. I had only mentioned that, from other conversations I had read, I was under the impression they also refunded shipping and as their page with their guarantee wasn't explicit on shipping refunds I was (only mildly) surprised.

I didn't come and make a post to sully the name of Diver's Den or be told how bad I am at the hobby. I shared an experience I had recently and was curious if anyone had similar experiences.

I thank you all for the warm responses.

Ou8me2 · 04/06/2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CStrickland

OP said they followed the DD acclimation instruction, and had their own QT set up.

He said he followed their acclimation process and unless I'm blind he said nothing about his own personal QT tank and referred to DD as QT their fish, so maybe he assumed he didn't need to QT fish and assumed the fish would be healthy. All reasonable expectations for what is on the site. Is it a little naive to think it's all true? Maybe. Really all a moot point I suppose.

No one wants to lose a fish or coral, and unfortunately, it happens and no matter what a person does to save an animal may or may not work. This can happen even at the best of retailers online. I can't think of an online retailer who can say they are 100% loss free.

I remember my first order back in the day from Jeff's Exotics and it was a 10 pack of corals. Unfortunately, half of them didn't make it and I can't remember if he had a guarantee or not back then. He did refund me the losses and I went on to make several purchases after that and all them made it fine from fish to corals. To refund shipping would be a huge loss for them as they don't get a refund on shipping.

I don't think one experience is enough to judge someone and you may order 10 more times and have no loss at all. We don't know how much care the package was handled in shipping, it could have been tossed around a few times for all we know.

You can go to your LFS and my guess is no matter if the fish dies in 2 hours or 2 weeks, that LFS isn't going to give you a credit for a marine livestock death.

I was speaking in general and not to anyone specific, to be honest. If you decide to give it another try you'll be successful next time.

04/06/2016, 09:58 AM	#1
SteveMSE Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 12	Purchasing from Diver's Den I'm curious if anyone has purchased from Diver's Den recently and what their experience was like. We purchased a fish from Diver's Den a few weeks back and were confident after reading reviews, their processes of quarantining fish and getting them to eat in an aquarium before shipping. I had also read several reviews where they reimbursed not only the price of the fish/inverts that was purchased if they died, but also the cost of shipping if the entire order was lost. Unfortunately, our experience was not as great as I had hoped. The fish arrived in a comatose and near dead state but came around slowly. I somewhat expected similar but was surprised to see it floating on it's side at the top of the bag. After following their acclimation process to a literal 'T,' I was surprised to see the fish was very skinny. Over the next few days I tried to feed it every type of food I could get my hands on ranging from LRS Reef Frenzy, to pellets, flakes, whole mysis, live pods, and even bloodworms to no avail. The fish never showed any hint of a feeding response. I really wonder if the fish had ever actually been quarantined and fed at the store as it is guaranteed. Needless to say, we lost the fish from starvation after about 7 days and they refunded us only the price of the fish. I was expecting to do more business through them but I don't know if I can really expect better results in the future.

04/06/2016, 10:04 AM	#2
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	They do not quarantine and urge users to do so,. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

04/06/2016, 10:12 AM	#4
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	Proper quarantine would increase the price by about double. And what is worse, they run a non-therapeutic level of copper. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

04/06/2016, 10:15 AM	#6
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	From their website. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

04/06/2016, 10:38 AM	#9
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	Don't get me wrong, they are the only place I purchase from. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

04/06/2016, 10:07 AM	#3
SteveMSE Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 12	Directly from Diver's Den on their acclimation process: http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...al_pagesid=425

04/06/2016, 10:13 AM	#5
GimpyFin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,032	I've had really good results overall from DD. Although, oddly enough, I have had an instance or two with fish that would not eat (Easy to keep fish.) Their customer service is great and they are pretty good about giving you credit back.

04/06/2016, 10:47 AM	#10
oflaherty21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bettendorf Ia Posts: 61	I've had pretty good success with DD. I ordered my original clean up crew and a few fish from them. Everything was healthy except a shrimp that died and they gave me credit no questions asked.

04/06/2016, 11:02 AM	#11
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	I do agree that the description on these animals is false. They say "fully quarantined and eating a mix of _____ and ____." That's an all out lie. They even had that same thing in the description of a blue ribbon eel a while back. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

04/06/2016, 11:05 AM	#12
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	I don't understand what the issue is here... They give you your money back if something dies within 2 weeks. Yes what you got came in poorly and like Steve mentioned you still need to QT what you get from them. It's only smart to anyway since you more than likely have significantly more money in your DT livestock than you do in the fish you're purchasing. DD fish are conditioned, not QTed. They are however treated for things that's show themselves when in their care. Copper is run though, and that will only mask disease if the fish has been in the system for less than 30 days. Depending on the dose of copper it may not effectively treat disease anyway __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

04/06/2016, 11:07 AM	#13
moatdaddy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Panama City beach florida Posts: 848	Lol here comes the reef central law firm. This thread will be swept into the sponsor review section shortly.

04/06/2016, 11:07 AM	#14
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	What kind of fish was it? __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

04/06/2016, 01:22 PM	#16
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Bad acclimation! Here is S8tr's thread on bag death and proper acclimation. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ht=acclimation __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

04/06/2016, 02:17 PM	#18
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	I have 19 fish in my tank and they all came from LA or DD. Yes I have had a couple that I lost - wrasses, but always got credits or refunds no questions asked. No more problems with Wrasses not making it after I read the thread I posted above about acclimation. I also do TTM with Prazi Pro, and then QT for another 3-4 weeks __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

04/06/2016, 02:22 PM	#19
water is wet Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Angola, Indiana Posts: 235	And just because it won't eat anything now does NOT mean it wasn't eating in their care. Seems silly to think otherwise.

04/06/2016, 02:31 PM	#20
Ou8me2 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 743	No matter how long a place claims to QT fish or corals. You should always do your own QT. I have a QT for Fish and QT for Corals. I QT for 6-8 weeks. You don't need some extravagant tank,lights or filtration for a QT tank. Yes, it's a added expense, but what happens if you add 1 fish to say your 5-6+ fish DT and it has an illness and kills all the fish? How much have you just lost $$ wise?

04/06/2016, 02:53 PM	#21
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	OP said they followed the DD acclimation instruction, and had their own QT set up. All OP was asking is whether anyone else had a similar experience where a DD fish starved despite following the instructions. Like whether stuff like this just happens sometimes even when you do what you're supposed to and order from top shelf sellers. The bad news is, it does. And while it feels unfair that you don't get the shipping refunded (like, why should I pay $30 for someone to send me a half dead fish) that's just the way it is. It kinda balances out though because they are generous with the refunds in the first place. Like you don't usually have to send back the corpse for an autopsy or something to prove you aren't scamming them. So I can see why they wouldn't go so far as to cover shipping as well. Better luck next time! Sometimes its like people get so excited to lecture about QT or jump on someone for being dissatisfied with a retailer, they don't even read the post. __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3 Last edited by CStrickland; 04/06/2016 at 03:00 PM.