Newbie planning first build

[Tooboot]

Hi,
I'very been interested in saltwater aquariums since my first dive in the barrier reef.
Well I finally get to start. I bought a used 40 gallon with stand for 80$, and a converted 20 gallon aquarium as a sump for 50$.
I have a number of questions ranging from set up to equipment to some minor tweaks I want to make to the tank, to be posted shortly with pics. I hope to get these on tonight, just thought I would put out my first forum post (ever) now

[mmittlesteadt]

Here's a link to my 40 gallon breeder build thread, if you want to check it out for any ideas. Looking forward to following along on your build. Best of luck!

[lou the reefer]

Welcome to reef central
a 40 gallon is a perfect size for a beginner

[Tooboot]

Wow, thanks for the link, I started reading and realized I'm in for some great info to build from, I'm doing similar things and have a similar philosophy. I've done lots of reading and watching videos, for topics on equipment to coral, fish, inverts needs. There is no way I know it all and plan on taking it easy to start things off. That being said i'very made up my mind on a number of factors based on my research, but am still up for suggestions or contrary views (I may not follow it and when I fail you can say I've told you so, but remember we all fail and learn from it at some point).
Tank:36x13x20 40 gal bowfront, 1 hole drilled in back with custom overflow down to bottom of tank.
Sump: converted 20 gal long, not sure of measurements but just fits in cabinet.
Custom cabinet that I tried to reinforce a bit.
I'm getting my cousin who's an electrician to come install a dedicated 30 amp GFCI
part of my plumbing is flex line and other is hard pvc in order to have a ball valves installed for both lines. The line running to the sump is 1.5" and back up for the pump is 3/4.
I plan a setting up a fuge and not sure what to use in it, so many successful stories.
I plan on starting with some fish and LPS, softies, mushrooms, and inverts (list of initial thoughts to come shortly)
Following the pound per gallon rock rule, or more, mainly for filtration, and will start the tank with Marco Key Largo dry rock. I haven't purchased yet, just feeling out what stores sell this within an hour drive
I haven't decided if I want to add a piece of live rock or sad it another way. I have read many expire need refers say they would start clean in future builds.
I've ordered a Jebao DC 30TH as my return pump, and have a used 3.5 Curve as a protein skimmer on its way.
I'm thinking of going Jebao rw4 or rw8 as powerheads, not sure I would do one 8 or 2 4s. I also like the aqua link features as a nice added toy later on.
I want to go LED for light, but really like the hood you built mmittlesteadt, I could build a nice hood and install LEDs. I like the programmable features of lights I general, and want this to be relatively easy, that doesn't mean I am ready to go out and drop the money needed for 2 Kessils 160 plus controller. I would like a razor, but not in current financial scope, maybe I need to do everything else first and by then hit a deal or save up some cash.
I am also considering cutting off the bar that runs across the top in the middle of the tank. I've considered using silicone to put a piece of glass instead if needed for support.
I would love advice on ATOs, as I am strongly considering this.
And I know there are differing opinions on this but I will be using distilled water for this build. I know where it is done, and the 8 step process it goes through. It has done wonders for my freshwater tank, the bottles say less than 2ppm TDS, and I've worked there I the past. Plus I live in the country and we have really hard water, can't run my own ro/di.
Enjoy early pics (sorry about the lighting, I'll get that sorted out for next pics).

[Tooboot]

Some additional pics of my return line and the sump. I also have sitting in the tank a neo therm 150 to start thingschool off (make initial batches of saltwater and cycle my tank) I plan on getting a 200 after that and the 150 would be a spare set at a lower temp.

[mmittlesteadt]

Have you considered doing a Herbie or Beananimal drain line system? The reason I ask is that they both incorporate a safety mechanism to prevent flooding should the main drain line plug up for any reason. I went with a Herbie system (two lines) which requires drilling two holes for the drain line. You can either drill a third for the return or have the return come up over the rim.

[Tooboot]

Return comes up over the rim, yes I did consider it, but there is no room in the current set up, and I think I have the room to accommodate the extra water if it were to happen

[Jeff4777]

Welcome!! Looks like your on track. Just keep reading and researching!

[Tooboot]

Thank you, looking forward to sharing my trial and tribulations , lol

[mmittlesteadt]

What size drain lines are you running? I'm running two 1 1/2" PVC (one main, one emergency). depending on how much flow you want to run, that drain line looks really small and it might not accommodate much flow from your return pump. There is an online calculator on the main page here to help you determine your minimum diameter pipe and overflow length.

[Tooboot]

Originally Posted by mmittlesteadt

What size drain lines are you running? I'm running two 1 1/2" PVC (one main, one emergency). depending on how much flow you want to run, that drain line looks really small and it might not accommodate much flow from your return pump. There is an online calculator on the main page here to help you determine your minimum diameter pipe and overflow length.

I'm using a single 1 1/2" drain line with a ball valve and a simple union. the return line is 3/4" and increases to 1" at the tank. the return also has a ball valve for flow control and the pump can be adjusted for flow as well.
I haven't put up any pics of the drain line yet, probably tonight. as you can tell I also have to sort out the lighting in the room to take better pics (or use a better camera).

[mmittlesteadt]

Originally Posted by Tooboot

I'm using a single 1 1/2" drain line with a ball valve and a simple union. the return line is 3/4" and increases to 1" at the tank. the return also has a ball valve for flow control and the pump can be adjusted for flow as well.
I haven't put up any pics of the drain line yet, probably tonight. as you can tell I also have to sort out the lighting in the room to take better pics (or use a better camera).

Makes more sense. I thought the pic showed your drain line.

So your not filling your display tank to the top, but in an emergency (like your single drain getting plugged) you'll have enough leftover tank space (not filled with water) to allow your return pump to run until it runs dry in it's chamber in your sump, without overflowing your display tank?

[Tooboot]

Originally Posted by mmittlesteadt

Makes more sense. I thought the pic showed your drain line.

So your not filling your display tank to the top, but in an emergency (like your single drain getting plugged) you'll have enough leftover tank space (not filled with water) to allow your return pump to run until it runs dry in it's chamber in your sump, without overflowing your display tank?

I should, although I haven't tried or measured. given the size of the cuts in the overflow and the size of the return pump chamber (given there are no leaks in my baffles between the chamber and the refugium) I should have enough room.

in the future, for safety sake, I may put a top off sensor on the tank with a solenoid to the pump to auto shut off if it reaches a certain height. I've never done it or wouldn't know exactly what to do know, but feel confident that with some research I could figure that out.

[ChitownBrickie]

Can I ask you a question about what size pipe I should use?
I'm setting up a 55 gallon reef ready tank. I'm going to use the Herbie Method as well. I plan on buying the Syncra Silent 2.0 Pump (568 GPH) - Sicce.
I just typed in (568GPH) on the calculator Link that you shared.....
Recommended minimum drain pipe diameter = 0.98 inches
Recommended minimum linear overflow size = 9 inches

My tank came pre-drilled for a 1" bulkhead and a 3/4" bulkhead.
I planned on using:
1" pipe for my 1" hole (emergency drain).
3/4" pipe for my 3/4" (main drain).
1" pipe for my return (the pipe will up the back side of my tank and hook over the top into the tank.

Originally Posted by mmittlesteadt

What size drain lines are you running? I'm running two 1 1/2" PVC (one main, one emergency). depending on how much flow you want to run, that drain line looks really small and it might not accommodate much flow from your return pump. There is an online calculator on the main page here to help you determine your minimum diameter pipe and overflow length.

[Tooboot]

what size of pipe does your return pump require. I would also consider using the bigger pipe size for the drain and emergency, and the 3/4 for the return.

I am new at this, and don't even have a tank up and running yet, but would think that it would be best to be cautious and have a bigger drain than return.

[mmittlesteadt]

Yes, you can always throttle back a return pump, but you can't increase your drain after the fact. I too, would use both 1" as drains (one main, one emergency) and the 3/4" for the return.

However, since you are going with an up and over return, you can get both holes to match by cutting the 3/4" to a 1" size.

I err on the side of caution. If it can go wrong, it will, so plan ahead and make sure you have every possible scenario for water flow (restricted and overflowing) handled...in advance.

That calculator also calculates tank volume, so you can measure LXWXD of any area of a tank to determine how many gallons you have leftover in your main tank when filled (the space not filled at the top), and also how many gallons your return chamber in your sump is. If the water level in your sump's return chamber (when down below your pump's ability to pump any longer) is less than the space left at the top of your tank, if your drain plugs, it won't overflow your tank. If it's more, then you'll have a huge mess.

You can do a search here (or Google) for Herbie and Beananimal drain systems just to see the benefits of them. Worth what little extra effort they are. I have a Herbie and it's really difficult to tune in perfect, so I always have some water going into my emergency...and that's with 1 1/2" drain lines. In hindsight, I should have done the beananimal because you get the emergency drain and another totally dry one, so you never have to futz with balancing out the drain/return perfectly (which is almost impossible anyway).

[Tooboot]

i've been struggling with the flow stuff for a bit, at least in my head.

Wouldn't, given the fact that i simply have a hole in the back of the tank draining to the sump, no siphons, the return pump flow (with head loss calculated) determine the flow that is draining.

I mean if I am at the drain line in the display tank, and add more water from the return, the same amount going in would come out. this is in an ideal situation with no obstructions either way.

what would I need to tune other than my return line to make sure that I have a set water level in my return chamber?

[Tooboot]

Originally Posted by mmittlesteadt

Here's a link to my 40 gallon breeder build thread, if you want to check it out for any ideas. Looking forward to following along on your build. Best of luck!

Nice build, nice to see you decided with a sump, and thanks for the photo shop idea, I have a sense of what I want in my head but so much better if I could draw it or use photo shop to try it out. I'll be using acrylic and some for of glue as well given the image in my head and rough sketches

[mmittlesteadt]

Originally Posted by Tooboot

i've been struggling with the flow stuff for a bit, at least in my head.

Wouldn't, given the fact that i simply have a hole in the back of the tank draining to the sump, no siphons, the return pump flow (with head loss calculated) determine the flow that is draining.

I mean if I am at the drain line in the display tank, and add more water from the return, the same amount going in would come out. this is in an ideal situation with no obstructions either way.

what would I need to tune other than my return line to make sure that I have a set water level in my return chamber?

Pipe diameter determines flow. The smaller your drain line, the less gph will go down the drain. You might find you'll have to restrict the flow of the return pump a lot. But maybe not. Of course, over time your drain line will gradually get more clogged and restricted, thereby slowing the drain flow. When that happens to my system (herbie) my emergency takes over. When I hear it going down the emergency line, I know it's time to either clear any clogging or open the line more.

If you don't have an emergency drain line, as your drain gets clogged, the less water will be drained, but your return pump will still be pumping the same amount of water into your tank, regardless of the drain's ability to keep up, until...well, water goes wherever it meets the least resistance. Just hope it isn't your floor.

[Tooboot]

Posting my wish list for stocking the tank

2 x clownfish*
1 blue damsel
1 banggai cardinal
1 pajama cardinal
1 blue tuxedo sea urchin
1 goby
1 camel shrimp
Purple tube anemone
Rainbow montepora*
1 x Blue beaded starfish*
3 x bumble bee snail
1 x tiger sand conch
Purple sea whip
1 Halloween hermit crab
Rose bubble tip anemone
Purple condo anemone
2 anemone crab
Candy apple zoeanthid* coral
Purple acropora*
Green slimer acro coral
Devils hand leather coral

[Tooboot]

Perfect now I get it, and glade to see I wasn't far off, it all has to do with the return and size of drain pipe, makes perfect sense.
Thank you, wish I had found something as coherent as that earlier.

[mmittlesteadt]

Originally Posted by Tooboot

Posting my wish list for stocking the tank

2 x clownfish*
1 blue damsel
1 banggai cardinal
1 pajama cardinal
1 blue tuxedo sea urchin
1 goby
1 camel shrimp
Purple tube anemone
Rainbow montepora*
1 x Blue beaded starfish*
3 x bumble bee snail
1 x tiger sand conch
Purple sea whip
1 Halloween hermit crab
Rose bubble tip anemone
Purple condo anemone
2 anemone crab
Candy apple zoeanthid* coral
Purple acropora*
Green slimer acro coral
Devils hand leather coral

Clowns are actually damsels, and that single blue damsel might turn into a little terror. Hard to say for sure though.

[Tooboot]

Yep, not completely decided on the fish, and could drop the damsel, i expected there could be conflict.
I ran the numbers on the room in the tank vs. in the return chamber and should be OK (3.1 in tank and 2.4 in the chamber)
Also attached part of the drain tonight, and used a flashlight to get better pics (need batteries for the camera).

I'm waiting on my return pump, it's on backorder, and I have a ball valve for my return in that same order. So kind of at a halt. May work on roughing the electrical outlet while I wait

[mmittlesteadt]

Well, that should at least give you some room for error if the drain gets plugged, however you don't want you pump running dry either. There is always some trade-off to figure out.

Everything is looking good. Except, I can't tell from the pic, but you aren't using any metal pipe are you? It looks like braided hose on your return line with metal ends. Maybe it's just the lighting. Maybe it's just that reinforced clear hose? You don't want any metal in contact with saltwater.

[Tooboot]

The pump has an auto shutoff.
The pipe is all pvc, there are some pieces of braided hose, no metal. I decided to use the cleaner pieces of the flex or braided hose he gave with the tank for some room for error or adjustment.
Here'so a link to the pump
http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-st...o-790-GPH.html