QT Tank ?

spdjnky · 05/01/2016, 06:49 AM

Do you treat the fish right away or wait and watch for signs of anything before you start treatment. I just brought 2 Damselfish home from LFS and have them in my QT tank and am just watching them eat and looking for anything. QT tank is new this is the first time I have anything in it so along with the 2 Damsels I put 2 snails in to and everyone seems happy right now. I was thinking if I just watch them for 4-6 weeks and everything is good I can add them too the main display. At the same time if I see something that makes me think I need copper then I will go ahead and do it. I know I will have to take the snails out. `I'm all new to eveything and learning it a lot but want to try to avoid any big problems if I can.

Bent · 05/01/2016, 06:53 AM

1: QTing two animals at once in the same tank is not advised.
2: good for you for doing a QT period. This is your e-pat on the back!
3: the advised prophylactic treatment regimen is 2 weeks of observation and feeding, followed by a formalin dip, TTM and 5 more weeks obs.

Good luck.

Nic33 · 05/01/2016, 07:19 AM

Why not formalin and TTM first? With your layout you are looking at almost 9 weeks correct? I am just getting started and was thinking of dip, TTM and then 4 weeks. Also, if there are no signs of any problems, can the TTM time count towards the 4-5 weeks?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bent · 05/01/2016, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic33

Why not formalin and TTM first? With your layout you are looking at almost 9 weeks correct? I am just getting started and was thinking of dip, TTM and then 4 weeks. Also, if there are no signs of any problems, can the TTM time count towards the 4-5 weeks?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like to QT for 12-18 weeks personally.

But the reason I don't advise immediate treatment is because I like to make sure the animal is eating and to ensure its immune system is operating a peak function. It also allows the animal to settle down, get used to being in a glass box with a creepy land walking water bag with eyes staring at it all day.

So, lower stress levels and a peak immune system are my two reasons for waiting.

Nic33 · 05/01/2016, 08:13 AM

Got it. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bent · 05/01/2016, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic33

Got it. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not that my way is the gospel or anything. People have different methods and are plenty successful.

scuzy · 05/01/2016, 09:42 AM

I just go formalin , ttm, prazi on 2nd and 4th transfer and into qt for two weeks

spdjnky · 05/01/2016, 12:12 PM

Heres my QT tank and Thanks now I"ve got more learning to do lol
The fish comes into the LFS in medicated water they transfer to their tank. If I put in my QT tank and it shows no signs of sickness why should I medicate it more.

scuzy · 05/01/2016, 01:04 PM

Cause you don't know what medication it came with. Plus you want to get rid of diseases and most fish stores don't have proper quarantine protocol since it's not feasible for them to do it. They have high turn over rates and thats like having sex in a brothel you may not get a disease now but over time you will most likely have every std known.

gone fishin · 05/01/2016, 02:34 PM

some folks prefer to just observe and treat fish if needed while others will treat regardless, it is a personal choice.

A few reasons why I have my QT protocol:

As stated above the vast majority of LFS do not do a proper QT for many reasons. The large influx of new fish would require a huge space requirement for QT tanks, expense, Time, increased cost to customer. At some point a lot of fish are subject to low dose or less than therapeutic dose of copper either by the distributor or LFS. The problem with this is that it keeps the fish healthy enough to be sold but does not actually get rid of any issues. The effects of this dosing can last up to 4-5 weeks after you get the fish home.

The most common problems IMO are ich and flukes both are easily treatable.

Other maladies such as velvet, brook and uronema can have devastating consequences on a DT.

I assume my fish have ich and flukes when I get them. So my QT protocol consists of 12 days of Tank Transfer method (TTM) for ich. It is less stressful on fish than copper and uses the life cycle of ich against itself. There is a sticky above the big red arrow at the top of the forum.

At some point in the QT, usually the 2nd and 4th tank transfer, I will use Prazi pro for flukes and internal parasites. This medication is fairly easy on the fish.

After this the fish will go into my main QT for 4-5 weeks for observation.

In addition I would suggest having plenty of water on hand for water changes, the use of an ammonia alert badge and having something like Prime by Seachem on hand to use for any ammonia. A word of caution do not use prime and copper medication together this can create a toxic environment for the fish. Good luck just my 2 cents.

spdjnky · 05/01/2016, 04:42 PM

Thanks you made things a lot easer to understand. When it comes to feeding in qt how do you go about that ?

StrangeDejavu · 05/01/2016, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gone fishin

some folks prefer to just observe and treat fish if needed while others will treat regardless, it is a personal choice.

A few reasons why I have my QT protocol:

As stated above the vast majority of LFS do not do a proper QT for many reasons. The large influx of new fish would require a huge space requirement for QT tanks, expense, Time, increased cost to customer. At some point a lot of fish are subject to low dose or less than therapeutic dose of copper either by the distributor or LFS. The problem with this is that it keeps the fish healthy enough to be sold but does not actually get rid of any issues. The effects of this dosing can last up to 4-5 weeks after you get the fish home.

The most common problems IMO are ich and flukes both are easily treatable.

Other maladies such as velvet, brook and uronema can have devastating consequences on a DT.

I assume my fish have ich and flukes when I get them. So my QT protocol consists of 12 days of Tank Transfer method (TTM) for ich. It is less stressful on fish than copper and uses the life cycle of ich against itself. There is a sticky above the big red arrow at the top of the forum.

At some point in the QT, usually the 2nd and 4th tank transfer, I will use Prazi pro for flukes and internal parasites. This medication is fairly easy on the fish.

After this the fish will go into my main QT for 4-5 weeks for observation.

In addition I would suggest having plenty of water on hand for water changes, the use of an ammonia alert badge and having something like Prime by Seachem on hand to use for any ammonia. A word of caution do not use prime and copper medication together this can create a toxic environment for the fish. Good luck just my 2 cents.

+1. This is exactly how I QT as well.

gone fishin · 05/01/2016, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdjnky

Thanks you made things a lot easer to understand. When it comes to feeding in qt how do you go about that ?

I will do pretty small bits of food, if they eat it all I will go a bit more. My goal is not to leave food in the tank. If I got a picky eater I will usually go with some frozen food, I have not had any turn down frozen. After they are eating that for a few days I will try mixing in a bit of flake or pellet food, hoping they will grab that along with the frozen food.

Bent · 05/01/2016, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdjnky

Heres my QT tank and Thanks now I"ve got more learning to do lol
The fish comes into the LFS in medicated water they transfer to their tank. If I put in my QT tank and it shows no signs of sickness why should I medicate it more.

I thought I would elaborate on this question. Most of the time the medicated water that the animal is shipped in is actually very low dose copper, and often the LFS will use low dose copper as well.

Copper in low doses, cannot kill anything but what it is really good at is masking symptoms of a disease the animal has. So if you take the animal and put it in water with no copper, then the disease will reproduce back up to symptom causing levels.

Furthermore, many many diseases have silent periods. In all actuality, almost all do save for the most lethal. The reason for this is actually a survival mechanism for the pathogen. If most diseases immediatley became symptomatic, then the disease would be irradicated very quickly. By evolving over the years through mutations to have these silent periods, and to give host organisms a way to carry the pathogen without being symptomatic, it increases its chances of being spread, therefore increasing its chances of surviving. Some of the most prolific, and dangerous, human diseases are the ones with the longest incubation periods and latency abilities.

Lastly, a survival mechanism of most animals is to delay symptoms as long as possible. In the wild, an animal who looks sick or distressed or weak, becomes lunch. Predators are opportunistic and in order to save energy they will go for the weakest target they can find. So with this in mind, once an animal starts becoming symptomatic, they are often too far gone to save since they have likely had the disease for a very long time and have just not shown any symptoms for survival reasons. In the references below, there is a link about it, and although its specific to birds, it can be applied to any prey animal.

So, in short, any fish you get assume it has a disease.

references:
http://www.ridgewoodvet.com/services...-hide-symptoms
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/15...comms7101.html
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...201_adenovirus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptomatic_carrier

spdjnky · 05/02/2016, 05:06 PM

Okay so where am I at now I can get 2 plastic totes and use them with new sw and go that way but does this mean that I have to drain the QT tank and start that over and cycle the QT tank all over or I will need to do a water change on my main. I'm just trying to figure out the easiest way to go from where I am at now with the 2 Damselfish I have in the QT tank now witch are looking good and eating fine. They have been in the qt for 5 days.
Let me know if I don't make sense.

gone fishin · 05/02/2016, 05:23 PM

If I understand correctly you want to do TTM now and your damsels are already in the main QT.

IF so I would start the TTM. Since your going the QT route I would empty the main QT, the fittings and the filter, leave it dry for 24 hours minimum and refill it. You could try some bacteria in a bottle to help the cycle along. I would also get some seachem prime if you get into any ammonia issues, be aware that if you use prime more than likely your ammonia test will give you a false reading. By coincidence

Seachem makes an ammonia test that works with prime present. I would also keep some water on hand for WC's if needed.

FWIW I very seldom cycle a QT. I rely on WC's to handle any ammonia issues and use prime if needed. Good luck just my 2 cents.

Ou8me2 · 05/02/2016, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent

I like to QT for 12-18 weeks personally.

But the reason I don't advise immediate treatment is because I like to make sure the animal is eating and to ensure its immune system is operating a peak function. It also allows the animal to settle down, get used to being in a glass box with a creepy land walking water bag with eyes staring at it all day.

So, lower stress levels and a peak immune system are my two reasons for waiting.

This and I do 10-12 weeks myself and it's mostly 12 weeks.

Bent · 05/02/2016, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ou8me2

This and I do 10-12 weeks myself and it's mostly 12 weeks.

Same. That final 6 weeks up to 18 is brutal when u are as impatient as I am.

spdjnky · 05/03/2016, 04:15 AM

Okay so here's what I can do. Let me know if this will work? I bought the 2 Damselfish on Thursday 4/28 I noticed that one was not eating and I found him dead Saturday morn.
Took a sample of water from my QT tank to the LFS and they replaced the one that died as the water tested good chalked it up to stress. So that's where I am at now. Unless things change today I can get ready to do the TTM and start this afternoon. ? This means that having them in my QT tank for this long that this tank may already be infected if these 2 fish have anything? I have a hang on filter with a bio wheel and carbon filter bag do I clean them in bleach too? Or just the wheel and replace the bag? Now back to the TTM when I start I get 2 totes and have 10 gals of SW in each with an air bubbler and a heater (this will be new SW just mixed how about the SG should I keep that at 1.025?) (1) Put both fish in one tote (how long) while the fish are in that I can go ahead and clean my main QT tank. Now I want to leave the qt tank up and running all the time so I'm thinking that if I had set things up right and had extra totes ready I could have went right to doing the TTM and left my QT alone and the after the TTM i could put them back in for the rest of their stay?
But I see I jumped ahead so back to the TTM I have them in the first tote (72 hours?) then they go to the second tote I clean the first tote let it dry fill it back up and it's ready again meanwhile I already have my main QT tank back up and running but won't use it again for the TTM. Hope this make sense. Another ? My sump on my main aquarium has a sponge in the bottom that I haven't touched sense I got the aquarium up and running last Oct so I was thinking that after I got my QT tank clean and add fresh new SW I could squeeze the sponge out in the SW and that would do the cycling over again for the QT tank. Let me know if what I am saying will work

spdjnky · 05/03/2016, 05:44 AM

okay got to do something went up to check on them this morning and the first damsel that went in qt last Thur is not looking good slow and not eating.

spdjnky · 05/03/2016, 01:37 PM

No they are fine when I put a little brine shrimp the one that wasn't really interested in the flakes perked up.
Any help on the meds I need to order from bulk reef supply would be appreciated thx Phil
I got 2 10 gallon totes from wall mart and mixing salt and just about ready I think.

spdjnky · 05/03/2016, 07:50 PM

The totes

05/01/2016, 06:49 AM	#1
spdjnky Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Schenectady,NY Posts: 165	QT Tank ? Do you treat the fish right away or wait and watch for signs of anything before you start treatment. I just brought 2 Damselfish home from LFS and have them in my QT tank and am just watching them eat and looking for anything. QT tank is new this is the first time I have anything in it so along with the 2 Damsels I put 2 snails in to and everyone seems happy right now. I was thinking if I just watch them for 4-6 weeks and everything is good I can add them too the main display. At the same time if I see something that makes me think I need copper then I will go ahead and do it. I know I will have to take the snails out. `I'm all new to eveything and learning it a lot but want to try to avoid any big problems if I can.

05/01/2016, 06:53 AM	#2
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	1: QTing two animals at once in the same tank is not advised. 2: good for you for doing a QT period. This is your e-pat on the back! 3: the advised prophylactic treatment regimen is 2 weeks of observation and feeding, followed by a formalin dip, TTM and 5 more weeks obs. Good luck. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

05/01/2016, 02:34 PM	#10
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	some folks prefer to just observe and treat fish if needed while others will treat regardless, it is a personal choice. A few reasons why I have my QT protocol: As stated above the vast majority of LFS do not do a proper QT for many reasons. The large influx of new fish would require a huge space requirement for QT tanks, expense, Time, increased cost to customer. At some point a lot of fish are subject to low dose or less than therapeutic dose of copper either by the distributor or LFS. The problem with this is that it keeps the fish healthy enough to be sold but does not actually get rid of any issues. The effects of this dosing can last up to 4-5 weeks after you get the fish home. The most common problems IMO are ich and flukes both are easily treatable. Other maladies such as velvet, brook and uronema can have devastating consequences on a DT. I assume my fish have ich and flukes when I get them. So my QT protocol consists of 12 days of Tank Transfer method (TTM) for ich. It is less stressful on fish than copper and uses the life cycle of ich against itself. There is a sticky above the big red arrow at the top of the forum. At some point in the QT, usually the 2nd and 4th tank transfer, I will use Prazi pro for flukes and internal parasites. This medication is fairly easy on the fish. After this the fish will go into my main QT for 4-5 weeks for observation. In addition I would suggest having plenty of water on hand for water changes, the use of an ammonia alert badge and having something like Prime by Seachem on hand to use for any ammonia. A word of caution do not use prime and copper medication together this can create a toxic environment for the fish. Good luck just my 2 cents. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

05/02/2016, 05:23 PM	#16
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	If I understand correctly you want to do TTM now and your damsels are already in the main QT. IF so I would start the TTM. Since your going the QT route I would empty the main QT, the fittings and the filter, leave it dry for 24 hours minimum and refill it. You could try some bacteria in a bottle to help the cycle along. I would also get some seachem prime if you get into any ammonia issues, be aware that if you use prime more than likely your ammonia test will give you a false reading. By coincidence Seachem makes an ammonia test that works with prime present. I would also keep some water on hand for WC's if needed. FWIW I very seldom cycle a QT. I rely on WC's to handle any ammonia issues and use prime if needed. Good luck just my 2 cents. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

05/01/2016, 07:19 AM	#3
Nic33 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 24	Why not formalin and TTM first? With your layout you are looking at almost 9 weeks correct? I am just getting started and was thinking of dip, TTM and then 4 weeks. Also, if there are no signs of any problems, can the TTM time count towards the 4-5 weeks? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05/01/2016, 08:13 AM	#5
Nic33 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 24	Got it. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05/01/2016, 09:42 AM	#7
scuzy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 6,499	I just go formalin , ttm, prazi on 2nd and 4th transfer and into qt for two weeks

05/01/2016, 01:04 PM	#9
scuzy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 6,499	Cause you don't know what medication it came with. Plus you want to get rid of diseases and most fish stores don't have proper quarantine protocol since it's not feasible for them to do it. They have high turn over rates and thats like having sex in a brothel you may not get a disease now but over time you will most likely have every std known.

05/01/2016, 04:42 PM	#11
spdjnky Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Schenectady,NY Posts: 165	Thanks you made things a lot easer to understand. When it comes to feeding in qt how do you go about that ?

05/02/2016, 05:06 PM	#15
spdjnky Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Schenectady,NY Posts: 165	Okay so where am I at now I can get 2 plastic totes and use them with new sw and go that way but does this mean that I have to drain the QT tank and start that over and cycle the QT tank all over or I will need to do a water change on my main. I'm just trying to figure out the easiest way to go from where I am at now with the 2 Damselfish I have in the QT tank now witch are looking good and eating fine. They have been in the qt for 5 days. Let me know if I don't make sense.

05/03/2016, 04:15 AM	#19
spdjnky Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Schenectady,NY Posts: 165	Okay so here's what I can do. Let me know if this will work? I bought the 2 Damselfish on Thursday 4/28 I noticed that one was not eating and I found him dead Saturday morn. Took a sample of water from my QT tank to the LFS and they replaced the one that died as the water tested good chalked it up to stress. So that's where I am at now. Unless things change today I can get ready to do the TTM and start this afternoon. ? This means that having them in my QT tank for this long that this tank may already be infected if these 2 fish have anything? I have a hang on filter with a bio wheel and carbon filter bag do I clean them in bleach too? Or just the wheel and replace the bag? Now back to the TTM when I start I get 2 totes and have 10 gals of SW in each with an air bubbler and a heater (this will be new SW just mixed how about the SG should I keep that at 1.025?) (1) Put both fish in one tote (how long) while the fish are in that I can go ahead and clean my main QT tank. Now I want to leave the qt tank up and running all the time so I'm thinking that if I had set things up right and had extra totes ready I could have went right to doing the TTM and left my QT alone and the after the TTM i could put them back in for the rest of their stay? But I see I jumped ahead so back to the TTM I have them in the first tote (72 hours?) then they go to the second tote I clean the first tote let it dry fill it back up and it's ready again meanwhile I already have my main QT tank back up and running but won't use it again for the TTM. Hope this make sense. Another ? My sump on my main aquarium has a sponge in the bottom that I haven't touched sense I got the aquarium up and running last Oct so I was thinking that after I got my QT tank clean and add fresh new SW I could squeeze the sponge out in the SW and that would do the cycling over again for the QT tank. Let me know if what I am saying will work

05/03/2016, 05:44 AM	#20
spdjnky Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Schenectady,NY Posts: 165	okay got to do something went up to check on them this morning and the first damsel that went in qt last Thur is not looking good slow and not eating.

05/03/2016, 01:37 PM	#21
spdjnky Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Schenectady,NY Posts: 165	No they are fine when I put a little brine shrimp the one that wasn't really interested in the flakes perked up. Any help on the meds I need to order from bulk reef supply would be appreciated thx Phil I got 2 10 gallon totes from wall mart and mixing salt and just about ready I think.