ATO Excessing

[JMorris271]

Hello RC.
My situation;
I am using a Smart ATO for topping off a tank. Imagine that.
The tube runs into the sump with the eye set at the water level I want to maintain in the return chamber.
After several hrs the level in the tank rises about an inch higher than I normally run and the ATO reservoir is running dry.
All the while, the level in the return chamber remains constant.
I know this is skewing up my salinity and all way off.
Any suggestions on what is going on here?
Help and thanks.

[vhuang168]

What happens when you run the tank without the ATO?


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[nivram]

Make sure the pump is turning off when it's supposed to.

In my case I found my pump would continue to drip water when it was off.


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[JWClark]

If your ATO line end is lower than the water level in your reservoir then it will continue to siphon even after the pump is off--unless the Smart ATO has some sort of prevention mechanism.

[scooter31707]

When was the last time you cleaned the sensor on the ATO?

[heathlindner25]

Originally Posted by JWClark

If your ATO line end is lower than the water level in your reservoir then it will continue to siphon even after the pump is off--unless the Smart ATO has some sort of prevention mechanism.

Check this

[JMorris271]

Scooter, I will check and clean that sensor out. Thanks


The tubing is well above the set sump level. No possibility of a siphon and this system does have that siphon breaker inline.

[vhuang168]

That won't be the issue. The water level in the sump return area stays level meaning the ato shut off the water at the right time.

Water level increases in the DT, meaning the return is faster than drain. I'm betting the issue is not with the ato but something else.


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[JMorris271]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

That won't be the issue. The water level in the sump return area stays level meaning the ato shut off the water at the right time.

Water level increases in the DT, meaning the return is faster than drain. I'm betting the issue is not with the ato but something else.


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How would that account for the reservoir being pumped dry? I am loosing 2 gals from the reservoir and gaining 2 gals in the main tank.
There are no restrictions in the drain lines which are opened max as is the pump.

[vhuang168]

Your return pumps faster than your drain line can drop water into the sump, causing the level in the return to drop. ATO sees low water level, it puts more in.

Rinse n repeat till your ATO reservoir runs dry.


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[TangingOut]

Yeah, level in your display shouldn't change. What type of drainage system are you using, what's the return pump, and how much head loss is it pumping?

[ClownsRCoo]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

Scooter, I will check and clean that sensor out. Thanks


The tubing is well above the set sump level. No possibility of a siphon and this system does have that siphon breaker inline.

You missed his point. He did not say the water level in your sump. He said the water level in your ATO res. Make sure you output line is not below the water level of your ATO res or it will also keep slowly siphoning water from the res. I had the same problem and that was the cause and I have the same ATO.


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[ClownsRCoo]

I use a 29g tank as my ATO res which is taller than my sump. When I would fill it all the way up the water level in the res is about 8-10" higher than my sump water level. My ATO output line was only about 3" above my sump water level. That left it still 5-7" below my ATO res line. When the ATO would kick on and then stop the water would still very slowly trickle through the line from siphon created.

I solved by never filling up my ATO res to its full level. I fill pretty much even to output line and stop. That is until I can get a piece of metric pipe to put on my sump to extend my ATO output at least a few inches higher than my ATO res. So either lift the output line or keep your ATO res lower than normal but one way or another your output line can't be lower than the res level


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[JMorris271]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

Your return pumps faster than your drain line can drop water into the sump, causing the level in the return to drop. ATO sees low water level, it puts more in.
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I did check that angle and find the level in the return stays at about i.25 inches above the pump.

This setup has run fine for months until I added the ATO.

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

I did check that angle and find the level in the return stays at about i.25 inches above the pump.



This setup has run fine for months until I added the ATO.

Easy to test. Turn off the ATO n see what happens.


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[Cliving1]

I had this happen once or twice with the same model as you have. Luckily I was around when it kept running and I noticed it kept running. I unplugged it, cleaned the glass sensor area and had no more issues.

[blackway1688]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

Hello RC.
My situation;
I am using a Smart ATO for topping off a tank. Imagine that.
The tube runs into the sump with the eye set at the water level I want to maintain in the return chamber.
After several hrs the level in the tank rises about an inch higher than I normally run and the ATO reservoir is running dry.
All the while, the level in the return chamber remains constant.
I know this is skewing up my salinity and all way off.
Any suggestions on what is going on here?
Help and thanks.

The most suspected is the siphon issue.

If your water tube end is lower than the water level of reservoir, the water will continue to flow in when pump turns off due to the siphon issue.

Action : Place your water tube end higher than the water level of reservoir.

[djbon]

Originally Posted by blackway1688

The most suspected is the siphon issue.

If your water tube end is lower than the water level of reservoir, the water will continue to flow in when pump turns off due to the siphon issue.

Action : Place your water tube end higher than the water level of reservoir.

+1. For ATO with sump sensor(s) and small pump in the reservoir, make sure the filler tube is not submerged to avoid siphoning issue. I'm not running ATO myself as I always believe something will go wrong someday.

[TangingOut]

Can anyone suggesting an ATO siphon issue explain how that raises the level in his display while the sump level remains the same? Maybe I'm not understanding something here.

[JMorris271]

I cannot be any clearer than this.
The tube that feeds the sump directly from the pump that sits in the reservoir does not NOT touch the water in the sump at any time. This tube passes over the rim over the sump and resides in a clip that comes with the unit and does not dangle down. The water then falls by gravity into the sump. I'll clean the sensor and glass asap and see if that solves it.
I really do appreciate your input here guys. I have got to solve this issue.

[djbon]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

I cannot be any clearer than this.
The tube that feeds the sump directly from the pump that sits in the reservoir does not NOT touch the water in the sump at any time. This tube passes over the rim over the sump and resides in a clip that comes with the unit and does not dangle down. The water then falls by gravity into the sump. I'll clean the sensor and glass asap and see if that solves it.
I really do appreciate your input here guys. I have got to solve this issue.

Just to be clearer, is your display tank water level rise up as well?.

[TangingOut]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

I cannot be any clearer than this.
The tube that feeds the sump directly from the pump that sits in the reservoir does not NOT touch the water in the sump at any time. This tube passes over the rim over the sump and resides in a clip that comes with the unit and does not dangle down. The water then falls by gravity into the sump. I'll clean the sensor and glass asap and see if that solves it.
I really do appreciate your input here guys. I have got to solve this issue.

Actually you're not being clear at all. We all know how an ATO works and nobody was suggesting your ATO output hose hangs low enough to touch the sump's water. People were wondering where your ATO container level is at in relation to the output hose. I.e, it can't be lower than the container's water level. I was thinking it wasn't that because you said the level in your sump's return section remains the same(where the sensor is mounted, which means it's doing it's job)

So to try and really clear things up where everyone is better able to help you, answer these questions. Where do you see water level changing? Display tank or return section? Where is your ATO container located in relation to it's output hose?

[PirateLove]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

I cannot be any clearer than this.
The tube that feeds the sump directly from the pump that sits in the reservoir does not NOT touch the water in the sump at any time. This tube passes over the rim over the sump and resides in a clip that comes with the unit and does not dangle down. The water then falls by gravity into the sump. I'll clean the sensor and glass asap and see if that solves it.
I really do appreciate your input here guys. I have got to solve this issue.

Long thread but your problem might be that if the water in your ato reservoir is higher than the water in your sump it will siphon, regardless of the little plastic siphon break that comes with the smart ato. The end of your ato tube must stop above the water line of your ato reservoir.

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by TangingOut

Can anyone suggesting an ATO siphon issue explain how that raises the level in his display while the sump level remains the same? Maybe I'm not understanding something here.

THIS!

For people suggesting it's the ATO. Please explain how if he is loosing 2g in the reservoir, it ends up in the DT but the return chamber stays the same height.

There is no other way for water to get to the DT except through the return.

So the only way for the DT level to get higher is if the return is faster than the drain. Even if it is only slightly faster, it will eventually show up as a higher DT level. Esp if he has only 1 drain pipe.

Turn off the ATO. Put a piece of tape where the water levels are in the return of the sump and the level in the DT. Leave it for a few hrs and check.


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[andy67]

Not sure where your Eye is but I run mine in my pump chamber. that is the chamber that will show evap loss