Often it's the things you CAN'T see that cause the fail...

Sk8r · 08/08/2016, 12:36 PM

It's real obvious when a tank has hair algae too thick to see the rockwork.
When you have red sheets all over...

For 1, use GFO until you've sopped up all the phosphate the rock and sand (slowly, over months) soak out into the water.
For 2, go on room lighting only for 3 days, then give it a day of twilight, then back to normal, while skimming at your most efficient, plus water change. Do this once a month until fixed: this treatment is VERY skimmer-dependent.

But those aren't the biggies. The ones that sneakily do in your corals or make your fish susceptible to problems. This is where you need a) a decent skimmer (2x your tank system volume is a good measure) to handle nitrate b) strong water flow---limp flow doesn't oxygenate enough: your fish should work a little holding place at some points. c) do your water changes to replace the micro-traces your fish/corals may use up....
In other words, its the invisible chemistry of the water...
Here's how it works. The alkalinity (7.9 to 8.3 is good) keeps the water able to dissolve things it needs to dissolve, like calcium, etc; and your fish find that ph/alkalinity comfortable too...their natural slime coat loves it. Same when you put your hands into some nasty chemical and realize they're dried out and your skin isn't comfy. Your fish live in a liquid medium that needs to be a certain alkalinity (ph is related to it) to let their skin do its thing: their slime coat protects them against bacteria and parasites. When it goes, they're undefended. And uncomfortable. Fish and your corals will, given this ideal basis of 1.024 [up to 1.026] salinity and 8.3 alkalinity, find all the other minerals they need through the water that constantly passes through their gills and kidneys---it's like they drink every minute of every day, forever; and what they drink needs to be good.
I just go ears-up when a person clearly new to the hobby, who's having trouble, begins with 'my water is perfect.' It almost always isn't, once we get down to 'what's your alkalinity?'
Nitrates: NOTHING loves them high, except maybe aiptasia: there's some discussion on that. How do you get rid of the high readings? SKimming and water changes. And if you have a weak skimmer and can't get more out of it, try something like NoPoX, easy to use---but measure accurately!!!!!---or you'll be having bacterial sheets. Your ammonia readings should always be zero. Your nitrate readings should be under 20, and if you want corals, in the fractions of 1. Your fish will thank you. They may be able to survive in nitrate up to 100, but not as happily as in clean water. Nitrate is, well, waste. And they shouldn't have to live in it.

Next and essential point: there is no FDA for fish products unless you mean to eat the fish. This means ANYBODY can make all sorts of claims of effectiveness for meds, foods, and additives. The three additives you need are: alkalinity buffer, calcium, and magnesium. With tests for each. !!!!!!NEVER add some chemical you have no test for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you are way experienced and into more exotic setups, you may find some situations where you need something else, but right now, and for your setup, those three are what you need and all you need. Plus a salt mix appropriate for a reef, or for fish-only: if it's significantly cheaper, it's for fish-only.

These are the 'invisible' things in your water. A good array of tests for these specific things, attention to testing once a week if not more often (as a beginner, or when things aren't right) and a program of water changes---with ro/di-based saltwater----[let's not even talk about the things that may be in your tapwater that water conditioner does NOT deal with, or we'll be here much, much longer: just say---use ro/di. If you didn't set up with it, you'll have a bit of an upward climb, but get going with it and oh, after a few months of regular water changes, you'll be a lot better off. Do those tests, keep a little cheap logbook in the box with the tests, and date the results.

Find the invisible problems with good testing, and fix them, and your tank should run more smoothly and become what you envision with far fewer hitches along the way.
Here is a checklist of things that you should check, with the best parameter for each. In general, pick the lowest good reading to shoot for, because evaporation concentrates chemicals, so if you're high to start with, evaporation will take you out of the good zone.
1. temperature: 78-80. ----------Surviveable temperature range: 62.8 to 85. But some classes of critter will die, and corals can bleach.
2. salinity: 1.024--------------half a cup of salt mix per gallon of ro/di gets you this. Cup or teaspoon means 'leveled with razor precision.'
3. alkalinity: 8.3---------------7.9 to 9. Try not to go higher. Or lower.
4. calcium : 420---------------if you have stony corals (with skeleton) you MUST supplement.
5. magnesium: 1350-----------if it falls below 1200 your calcium and alk reading will start falling. This is not good.
6. ammonia: 0---------------- toxic: causes kidney damage, death within usually 3 days.
7. nitrate: for fish less than 20, for corals less than 1.......They can survive it higher, but think of it as sewage. Not nice.
8. flow: 17x tank volume per hour is my preference: pumps are rated in GPH (gallons an hour) which is progressively reduced by HEAD, the distance upward it has to push. I figure it's good when my fishes reach points in the tank where they have to do some work to stand still. TO figure this, take your tank volume, say, 50 gallons, and multiply that by 17. The result, 850, is the proper number of your required pump GPH. My fifty actually ran with a 950 GPH pump with a 4 foot 'head' from the sump (which knocks off some of that power) and worked really well. For my 100 gallon, with a basement sump, I use a 2300 gph pump wide open to reach the tank upstairs, and augment the flow with a Gyre at about 60%.
9. skimming................you should be getting greenish-black stuff out, at leanest skim: ONCE YOUR TANK IS MATURE: this is where you get rid of amino acids and other waste. You will not get the heavy skimmate on a brand new tank. This rate can be increased by carbon dosing. Safest for novices is NoPoX, but you MUST read the instructions and measure precisely.
10. feeding:--------------if it's still hanging around after half a minute, you may be overfeeding: most fish need to fill their (rather large) mouth once daily to be satisfied, is my rule. Some species (notably anthias) rely on more times daily; and dragonets (mature large tank only) require feeding every second of every day, feeding on copepods grown in a fuge.
Spot-feeding: not necessary with most critters and corals. If you buy one that needs it, you're buying a job and needing a skilled tanksitter. I have run several reefs and have NEVER acquired anything requiring spot-feeding.
Hope that helps.

Capsle · 08/09/2016, 08:58 PM

Thanks Sk8r.

My tank is fairly new as you know. All my parameters are in check
Salinity 1.024-025
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrate 10
Cal 420-440
Ph 7.9
Alk 10.5.
Phosphate <0.03

My alkalinity is naturally high for some reason. Should this be a concern? If so how do I go about lowering it?

I have hardly and GHA only 1 spot on a tiny rock, the spot is maybe 1/4" which I will remove.

I have noticed some brown stuff growing but not sure if it's algae. I will take a pic as soon as I can.

When you talk about water flow you're calculating about what you're returning to the tank plus power heads?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sk8r · 08/09/2016, 10:34 PM

It may be your salt mix, it may be that that element isn't getting used. Test a batch of newly mixed saltwater.
Brown could be diatoms, not uncommon, so long as they don't go nuts.

That 17x refers to everything you've got; but I prefer to move everything I can through the sump or at least to make it roll: aiming a powerhead at a corner can bounce a flow back into rockwork, eg. But if you have all surface flow, or dead pockets in the landscape, problems collect there. If you have a deep tank, you may need to add powerheads aimed low, to stir things up; just anything you can do to make the fish work for a living without aiming a hurtful jet at a coral that is not happy with the high flow. THis is where tank arrangement gets to be an artform, not only providing the light in strength needed for corals, but being sure they aren't being blasted by a strong current that is generally good for the tank's health. Kind of like a board game...strong flow here, shelter there. Freshwater tanks emulate ponds, often, but the ocean is a bit rowdier.

Bsvenonius · 08/10/2016, 06:35 PM

Great write up sk8r. Big help on the basics

Sk8r · 08/11/2016, 10:01 AM

Just as a note: there are 3 pieces of equipment where you should observe the best-available at work, and measure what your equipment needs to do, and this is REAL hard if you don't have a reef club or a good lfs. I'd recommend you go out to You Tube and start looking at the videos involving the state-of-the-art brands, and see how close your equipment comes. The three are: your return pump/powerhead arrangement; your skimmer: and your light kit.

Good testing routine, water changes, and knowing what you should be looking for on your next equipment upgrade...or first purchase...can do a lot for your tank.

Capsle · 08/11/2016, 09:38 PM

Thanks Sk8r.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08/08/2016, 12:36 PM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Often it's the things you CAN'T see that cause the fail... It's real obvious when a tank has hair algae too thick to see the rockwork. When you have red sheets all over... For 1, use GFO until you've sopped up all the phosphate the rock and sand (slowly, over months) soak out into the water. For 2, go on room lighting only for 3 days, then give it a day of twilight, then back to normal, while skimming at your most efficient, plus water change. Do this once a month until fixed: this treatment is VERY skimmer-dependent. But those aren't the biggies. The ones that sneakily do in your corals or make your fish susceptible to problems. This is where you need a) a decent skimmer (2x your tank system volume is a good measure) to handle nitrate b) strong water flow---limp flow doesn't oxygenate enough: your fish should work a little holding place at some points. c) do your water changes to replace the micro-traces your fish/corals may use up.... In other words, its the invisible chemistry of the water... Here's how it works. The alkalinity (7.9 to 8.3 is good) keeps the water able to dissolve things it needs to dissolve, like calcium, etc; and your fish find that ph/alkalinity comfortable too...their natural slime coat loves it. Same when you put your hands into some nasty chemical and realize they're dried out and your skin isn't comfy. Your fish live in a liquid medium that needs to be a certain alkalinity (ph is related to it) to let their skin do its thing: their slime coat protects them against bacteria and parasites. When it goes, they're undefended. And uncomfortable. Fish and your corals will, given this ideal basis of 1.024 [up to 1.026] salinity and 8.3 alkalinity, find all the other minerals they need through the water that constantly passes through their gills and kidneys---it's like they drink every minute of every day, forever; and what they drink needs to be good. I just go ears-up when a person clearly new to the hobby, who's having trouble, begins with 'my water is perfect.' It almost always isn't, once we get down to 'what's your alkalinity?' Nitrates: NOTHING loves them high, except maybe aiptasia: there's some discussion on that. How do you get rid of the high readings? SKimming and water changes. And if you have a weak skimmer and can't get more out of it, try something like NoPoX, easy to use---but measure accurately!!!!!---or you'll be having bacterial sheets. Your ammonia readings should always be zero. Your nitrate readings should be under 20, and if you want corals, in the fractions of 1. Your fish will thank you. They may be able to survive in nitrate up to 100, but not as happily as in clean water. Nitrate is, well, waste. And they shouldn't have to live in it. Next and essential point: there is no FDA for fish products unless you mean to eat the fish. This means ANYBODY can make all sorts of claims of effectiveness for meds, foods, and additives. The three additives you need are: alkalinity buffer, calcium, and magnesium. With tests for each. !!!!!!NEVER add some chemical you have no test for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you are way experienced and into more exotic setups, you may find some situations where you need something else, but right now, and for your setup, those three are what you need and all you need. Plus a salt mix appropriate for a reef, or for fish-only: if it's significantly cheaper, it's for fish-only. These are the 'invisible' things in your water. A good array of tests for these specific things, attention to testing once a week if not more often (as a beginner, or when things aren't right) and a program of water changes---with ro/di-based saltwater----[let's not even talk about the things that may be in your tapwater that water conditioner does NOT deal with, or we'll be here much, much longer: just say---use ro/di. If you didn't set up with it, you'll have a bit of an upward climb, but get going with it and oh, after a few months of regular water changes, you'll be a lot better off. Do those tests, keep a little cheap logbook in the box with the tests, and date the results. Find the invisible problems with good testing, and fix them, and your tank should run more smoothly and become what you envision with far fewer hitches along the way. Here is a checklist of things that you should check, with the best parameter for each. In general, pick the lowest good reading to shoot for, because evaporation concentrates chemicals, so if you're high to start with, evaporation will take you out of the good zone. 1. temperature: 78-80. ----------Surviveable temperature range: 62.8 to 85. But some classes of critter will die, and corals can bleach. 2. salinity: 1.024--------------half a cup of salt mix per gallon of ro/di gets you this. Cup or teaspoon means 'leveled with razor precision.' 3. alkalinity: 8.3---------------7.9 to 9. Try not to go higher. Or lower. 4. calcium : 420---------------if you have stony corals (with skeleton) you MUST supplement. 5. magnesium: 1350-----------if it falls below 1200 your calcium and alk reading will start falling. This is not good. 6. ammonia: 0---------------- toxic: causes kidney damage, death within usually 3 days. 7. nitrate: for fish less than 20, for corals less than 1.......They can survive it higher, but think of it as sewage. Not nice. 8. flow: 17x tank volume per hour is my preference: pumps are rated in GPH (gallons an hour) which is progressively reduced by HEAD, the distance upward it has to push. I figure it's good when my fishes reach points in the tank where they have to do some work to stand still. TO figure this, take your tank volume, say, 50 gallons, and multiply that by 17. The result, 850, is the proper number of your required pump GPH. My fifty actually ran with a 950 GPH pump with a 4 foot 'head' from the sump (which knocks off some of that power) and worked really well. For my 100 gallon, with a basement sump, I use a 2300 gph pump wide open to reach the tank upstairs, and augment the flow with a Gyre at about 60%. 9. skimming................you should be getting greenish-black stuff out, at leanest skim: ONCE YOUR TANK IS MATURE: this is where you get rid of amino acids and other waste. You will not get the heavy skimmate on a brand new tank. This rate can be increased by carbon dosing. Safest for novices is NoPoX, but you MUST read the instructions and measure precisely. 10. feeding:--------------if it's still hanging around after half a minute, you may be overfeeding: most fish need to fill their (rather large) mouth once daily to be satisfied, is my rule. Some species (notably anthias) rely on more times daily; and dragonets (mature large tank only) require feeding every second of every day, feeding on copepods grown in a fuge. Spot-feeding: not necessary with most critters and corals. If you buy one that needs it, you're buying a job and needing a skilled tanksitter. I have run several reefs and have NEVER acquired anything requiring spot-feeding. Hope that helps. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 08/08/2016 at 04:17 PM.

08/09/2016, 08:58 PM	#2
Capsle Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 385	Thanks Sk8r. My tank is fairly new as you know. All my parameters are in check Salinity 1.024-025 Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrate 10 Cal 420-440 Ph 7.9 Alk 10.5. Phosphate <0.03 My alkalinity is naturally high for some reason. Should this be a concern? If so how do I go about lowering it? I have hardly and GHA only 1 spot on a tiny rock, the spot is maybe 1/4" which I will remove. I have noticed some brown stuff growing but not sure if it's algae. I will take a pic as soon as I can. When you talk about water flow you're calculating about what you're returning to the tank plus power heads? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Caps Current Tank Info: 65G DT with custom overflow, 35G custom sump, maxspect R420r 180w 15K, reef octopus classic 150 skimmer.

08/09/2016, 10:34 PM	#3
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	It may be your salt mix, it may be that that element isn't getting used. Test a batch of newly mixed saltwater. Brown could be diatoms, not uncommon, so long as they don't go nuts. That 17x refers to everything you've got; but I prefer to move everything I can through the sump or at least to make it roll: aiming a powerhead at a corner can bounce a flow back into rockwork, eg. But if you have all surface flow, or dead pockets in the landscape, problems collect there. If you have a deep tank, you may need to add powerheads aimed low, to stir things up; just anything you can do to make the fish work for a living without aiming a hurtful jet at a coral that is not happy with the high flow. THis is where tank arrangement gets to be an artform, not only providing the light in strength needed for corals, but being sure they aren't being blasted by a strong current that is generally good for the tank's health. Kind of like a board game...strong flow here, shelter there. Freshwater tanks emulate ponds, often, but the ocean is a bit rowdier. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/11/2016, 10:01 AM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Just as a note: there are 3 pieces of equipment where you should observe the best-available at work, and measure what your equipment needs to do, and this is REAL hard if you don't have a reef club or a good lfs. I'd recommend you go out to You Tube and start looking at the videos involving the state-of-the-art brands, and see how close your equipment comes. The three are: your return pump/powerhead arrangement; your skimmer: and your light kit. Good testing routine, water changes, and knowing what you should be looking for on your next equipment upgrade...or first purchase...can do a lot for your tank. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/11/2016, 09:38 PM	#6
Capsle Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 385	Thanks Sk8r. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Caps Current Tank Info: 65G DT with custom overflow, 35G custom sump, maxspect R420r 180w 15K, reef octopus classic 150 skimmer.

08/10/2016, 06:35 PM	#4
Bsvenonius Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Illinois Posts: 69	Great write up sk8r. Big help on the basics