Lets Talk Copperband Butterfly!

[abenak89]

So I am strongly considering this fish for my tank. I hear they are difficult to get to eat as they can be too shy to go in and eat and are easily picked on. I would be looking to get one tang as well and am considering the purple at the moment.

I have a 120g. I did a 100% water change after purchase and am giving my parameters 1 more week to see if I have a mini cycle. So far zeros on everything. I do have diatoms now due to new sand.

So my two big fish will be the CBB and lets just say Purple Tang for now. Others will be blenny, wrasse... maybe a trio of small anthias. Small stuff for the reef.

My live rock is centered to have lots of room for swimming and have two jeabo pp-15s on the way for water flow.

My focus is the fish and want to be sure I can make this a happy fish. I know sometimes its hard to predict the future BUT hey I would rather try and plan before making a quick purchase.

ON A SIDE NOTE. LFS has a decent size one maybe 3-4" looks super healthy and they have had some success feeding it. I told them to keep me in the loop.

So lets hear your thoughts, concerns, your experience, your wisdom ANYTHING you have to say about this fish. I WANT SHRIMP FOR MY REEF so if its a shrimp eat please speak up.

[hogfanreefer]

The only things in danger from my copperband are feather dusters, coco worms and clams. I would get the CB well established before adding any tang, especially the purple. I'd also make sure the tang was significantly smaller than the CB. This worked well for me when adding a Caribbean Blue tang to my tank.

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by hogfanreefer

The only things in danger from my copperband are feather dusters, coco worms and clams. I would get the CB well established before adding any tang, especially the purple. I'd also make sure the tang was significantly smaller than the CB. This worked well for me when adding a Caribbean Blue tang to my tank.

And aiptasia need ro be in danger... which I have lol and yea I will be adding purple last and will do my best to find a smaller one!

[Dkuhlmann]

Absolutely get the CBB first before any other fish or even at the same time as some bottom dwellers, or maybe a small flasher wrasse, something passive with the CBB is fine.

Remember with any butterfly fish you need lots of LR for them to pick on, and YES aiptasia will be in danger from most all butterflyfish especially Racoon butterfly fish.

I had several different butterfly fish in my previous 200 gal tank, I sure do miss them and my big angel fish but I don't miss all the work with that size tank. Butterfly fish are my favorites.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by abenak89

And aiptasia need ro be in danger... which I have lol and yea I will be adding purple last and will do my best to find a smaller one!

Not all CBB eat aiptasia.

[hogfanreefer]

Originally Posted by abenak89

And aiptasia need ro be in danger... which I have lol and yea I will be adding purple last and will do my best to find a smaller one!

For sure. I guess I was thinking about desirable things in danger. My CB eliminated the small amount of aiptasia I had very quickly.

[kmbyrnes]

My CBB just went in the DT last weekend and it took me 4 tries over 3 years to be successful. They can be finicky eaters, and if they don't start feeding they just waste away.
My .02 is to watch one at the LFS. Be sure it has been there at least a week, watch it eat in the store, and get the same food they are feeding it.
Be sure to QT it alone and get it settled in and eating before introducing to your display.
And by all means add it before the tang.

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by kmbyrnes

My CBB just went in the DT last weekend and it took me 4 tries over 3 years to be successful. They can be finicky eaters, and if they don't start feeding they just waste away.
My .02 is to watch one at the LFS. Be sure it has been there at least a week, watch it eat in the store, and get the same food they are feeding it.
Be sure to QT it alone and get it settled in and eating before introducing to your display.
And by all means add it before the tang.

I have no fish in the DT besides the lg and sm banggai cardinal which I think I am going to give to my LFS. Just don't like them and the LG came with the tank and yeah.. so the CBB will be only fish in DT and I am considering not QT him as I don't want to stress him out over moving again in a few weeks.

The CBB I have been looking at is at a LFS and has been eating and looks healthy or I WOULD qt. I will ask them to feed in front of me and get the same food that is a great idea!

[davocean]

I've had a number of CBB's over the years, each one different, some ate apt, some not, some prepd food easily, and one I had ate apt but also picked at pods non stop, I had a pair of manderins in that tank so it had to go.
I agree feathers of any kind, most likely clams, and also gorgonians probably can not be kept w/ a CBB.
I'd never buy one I did not see eat first.

[64Ivy]

You DO plan to QT this fish first, right?

[anthonys51]

so i just got a free CBB. i already have a kole tang in my tank , 2 clowns and 2 antheis and 2 fairy wrasses. i did see it eat in the guys tank, didnt qt it, but planning on upgrading to a 265 tank in a month (just planning the build) from a 57. the CBB hasnt eaten in the 2 days its been in my tank, but is swimming around. are you guys saying its a goner. i didnt want to take the fish, but guy lights blow out basically gave me all his corals and 2 fish for 40 bucks. probably 300 worth of stuff , so i did it

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by 64Ivy

You DO plan to QT this fish first, right?

I do NOT plan to. given the fact I have no fish in the tank and these guys are already delicate I feel putting him in QT for a couple weeks is only a risk to the fish. Might be dumb not to but I don't have any other fish in the tank so if something happens I can pull him easily and treat if needed. Again I have been watching this fish for a bit now. Will be monitoring at the LFS all week and will watch him eat. Please don't judge me on this one fish.. I honestly feel its the best thing to do in this situation...

All NEW fish would go into QT before DT.

[Adam G]

I had a CBB for 4 years and he was one of my favorite fish. I found that he devoured blood worms and black worms. Frozen or live. I believe feeding him these often (mostly frozen blood worms because they were easy to get) was the key to my success with this fish. Sadly I lost him and many others to a nasty ich outbreak in a 180g holding tank after a move to a new home. Broke my heart to lose him as we a beautiful fish.

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by Adam G

I had a CBB for 4 years and he was one of my favorite fish. I found that he devoured blood worms and black worms. Frozen or live. I believe feeding him these often (mostly frozen blood worms because they were easy to get) was the key to my success with this fish. Sadly I lost him and many others to a nasty ich outbreak in a 180g holding tank after a move to a new home. Broke my heart to lose him as we a beautiful fish.

Bummer man... Appreciate the comment though! Will keep the blood worms in mind and will see if the LFS can try to substitute some of those into the feeding this week. They could possibly be using those already will find out more this week

[kmbyrnes]

Originally Posted by abenak89

I do NOT plan to. given the fact I have no fish in the tank and these guys are already delicate I feel putting him in QT for a couple weeks is only a risk to the fish. Might be dumb not to but I don't have any other fish in the tank so if something happens I can pull him easily and treat if needed. Again I have been watching this fish for a bit now. Will be monitoring at the LFS all week and will watch him eat. Please don't judge me on this one fish.. I honestly feel its the best thing to do in this situation...

All NEW fish would go into QT before DT.

This would be a mistake IMO.
All fish should be QT'd, with the possible exception of a mandarin.
Fish are less stressed by a move than by disease.

Either way, best of luck.
It has taken me 4 tries, but I think the fish is worth it.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by abenak89

I do NOT plan to. given the fact I have no fish in the tank and these guys are already delicate I feel putting him in QT for a couple weeks is only a risk to the fish. Might be dumb not to but I don't have any other fish in the tank so if something happens I can pull him easily and treat if needed. Again I have been watching this fish for a bit now. Will be monitoring at the LFS all week and will watch him eat. Please don't judge me on this one fish.. I honestly feel its the best thing to do in this situation...

All NEW fish would go into QT before DT.

i would strongly advise against this for several reasons.

first and foremost being potential disease introduction, remember there's more than just ich in this world, butterflyfish in particular can play host to various internal parasites and flukes, so running them through a good QT protocol (i suggest TTM) with two full rounds of prazi is highly advisable.

done correctly, QT doesn't stress fish very much at all. i've run must more sensitive fish than a CBB through my QT regimen with great results.

second is feeding. as you already know these fish can be touchy with what they will and will not eat. a nice stint in QT in a low light, low traffic, low stress environment, will give you controlled conditions to experiment with other food types, get the fish used to you feeding, and generally give it time to settle in from it's move from the store.

finally the tang. a 120 is a 4' tank, correct? i certainly wouldn't put any zebrasoma tang in there, especially not with a CBB. i have a 155 oceanic (72"x18"x29") and my yellow tang is still a turd to my CBB on the regular.

my CBB is edging on a year in my care at this point. he eats PE Myses quite well, and also loves live black worms and live white worms which i use more for treats. the myses are his stable. i've had a hard time getting him interested in anything else.

[Hal]

Cbb's eat worms as part of their natural diet. Live blackworms are THE best food for them, and will give you the best chance of getting one to eat.

[fishsuse29]

I wouldn't recommend one for your first fish. I recently added a copperband amd here is my feedback

1. Difficult to getting eating tried all types of food finally got him going on live blackworms and will now eat frozen ones but won't touch anything else
2. Very shy I've only got a pair of clowns and a royal gama in a 150 gallon tank and he still gets out competed for food by them plus my shrimps as he likes to wait for the worms to hit the bottom before eating
4. Only eats a couple of worms at a time so needs to be fed 2+ times a day
3. Mine won't touch aptasia but took down all of my feather dusters


So unless you have the patience to feed him live blackworms a couple of times a day and can hold off on adding more fish for at lead a month or two to get him eating steady. I wouldn't add one especially since your tank is newer so you most likely won't have enough feather dusters on the rock to keep him alive while he adjusts

[lespaul339]

Originally Posted by snorvich

Not all CBB eat aiptasia.

This. Unfortunately mine doesn't. He did at first but now he won't touch them.


I love my Copperband though, and will honestly always have one of these fish in my reef. They aren't that hard to get to eat as long as you feed them the right things. Live black worms are a must if you plan to keep this fish long term IMO. Also, they love clams. Mine even likes to eat Nori soaked in selcon. They are super smart fish, and will learn things fast. Mine is trained to eat right out of my baster. I can even hand feed him if I want to. He is very tame and has such an awesome personality. Definitely my favorite fish.

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by MondoBongo

i would strongly advise against this for several reasons.

first and foremost being potential disease introduction, remember there's more than just ich in this world, butterflyfish in particular can play host to various internal parasites and flukes, so running them through a good QT protocol (i suggest TTM) with two full rounds of prazi is highly advisable.

done correctly, QT doesn't stress fish very much at all. i've run must more sensitive fish than a CBB through my QT regimen with great results.

second is feeding. as you already know these fish can be touchy with what they will and will not eat. a nice stint in QT in a low light, low traffic, low stress environment, will give you controlled conditions to experiment with other food types, get the fish used to you feeding, and generally give it time to settle in from it's move from the store.

finally the tang. a 120 is a 4' tank, correct? i certainly wouldn't put any zebrasoma tang in there, especially not with a CBB. i have a 155 oceanic (72"x18"x29") and my yellow tang is still a turd to my CBB on the regular.

my CBB is edging on a year in my care at this point. he eats PE Myses quite well, and also loves live black worms and live white worms which i use more for treats. the myses are his stable. i've had a hard time getting him interested in anything else.

See I worry about a QT I work 11-12hrs a day. If things spike or get out of wack I am not home to do anything. When I do get home its 130am and is hard to really do much.
I have heard of TTM but don't know much about it. I have a 20g QT and a 10g tank laying around... what would best method be to do this TTM with prazi?

Originally Posted by fishsuse29

I wouldn't recommend one for your first fish.

So unless you have the patience to feed him live blackworms a couple of times a day and can hold off on adding more fish for at lead a month or two to get him eating steady. I wouldn't add one especially since your tank is newer so you most likely won't have enough feather dusters on the rock to keep him alive while he adjusts

Well in honesty once the fish is added I would be waiting a few weeks regardless as the next fish I get would be in the QT that long. So either way I need to wait the long before another fish is added.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by abenak89

See I worry about a QT I work 11-12hrs a day. If things spike or get out of wack I am not home to do anything. When I do get home its 130am and is hard to really do much.
I have heard of TTM but don't know much about it. I have a 20g QT and a 10g tank laying around... what would best method be to do this TTM with prazi?

a 20g/10g combo could certainly work for TTM. that was my previous setup, i bought a few more 10 gallons because they used less water.

i just follow standard TTM protocol, nothing fancy. about the only change i make is an aggressive water change regimen, about 50% or more on non-transfer days, to help keep water quality pristine. i also use an ammonia locker like AmQuel or SeaChem Prime.

i also cover the tanks with some old sheets of plexiglass to help stop evaporation and jumpers.

there are some great write ups on TTM, here are two of them:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1996525
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2491530

i fully understand that this technique isn't for everyone, but barring this i would still consider QT for the butterfly so that i could medicate with prazi and observe for a while. in this case i would likely use an uncycled QT with the aforementioned ammonia locker products and large daily water changes to keep water quality up.

best advice i can give aside from QT is to make sure the fish is eating at the store, and get some of whatever they are feeding it so you have it ready to go when it gets home. don't assume that because it eats X at the store that it will eat Y when you get it home. have plenty of X around and try Y/Z/P/Q/LMNO as you have time.

my first CBB died in QT. it wasn't eating at the store, but i figured i roll the dice on it, because i'm about as prepared to convince a fish to eat as you can be, unfortunately he never ate anything and eventually died.

the second CBB i found was eating enthusiastically in a tank with about a dozen damsels, i knew that was my fish. i actually nicknamed him King Hippo because of how much he eats.

[abenak89]

Ok so i think i will keep him in the ST a week or two just for insurance.. I will set up the 10g with new water and prazi and do some dips into there.

Would dipping him in the 10g with prazi for a day be good then switch back to main 20g for a day? Do a 50% water change in 10g on off day and a 5g in 20g on off day?

[MondoBongo]

if i recall correctly there are specific instructions on the bottle for using prazi as a dip versus in tank. check the directions. prazi is pretty safe stuff for the most part. although i would probably use a smaller bucket or something for dipping. typically you're not placing fish in a dip for more than a small amount of time (less than an hour) so you likely won't need to use 10 gallons of water each time.

prazi also only has about a 48 hour limit on its efficacy. which is why it works well with TTM.

tldr; check the directions on the bottle.

[abenak89]

Directions:
As A Bath: For the treatment of praziquantel-susceptible disease conditions in freshwater and marine aquariums. NOTE: Not recommedend for reef aquariums with Feather Duster Worms or other ornamental worms.
Start treatment with as large a water change as practical or start with new water. Any water used should first be conditioned to remove ammonia, chlorine and chloramines. Do not stop filtration, but remove activated carbon and stop foam-fractionation (protein skimming) and UV sterilization.

Shake vigorously before use. Measure at the rate of one (1) teaspoon per 20 gallons of water to be treated (One (1) fl. oz. per 120 gallons). This produces a concentration of 2.5 mg/L. Distribute the proper amount around the edge of the aquarium or directly into the filter box to achieve the best overall distribution.

A single treatment lasting 5-7 days is normally sufficient. Repeat as necessary, but no more than once every 3 to 5 days. May be used as a preventive, at the standard application, when disease is likely. Do not use with other drugs or disease treatments. May cause temporary foaming.



SOOOOO does this mean I can simply treat my 20g alone? What should I use for the ammonia remover? I also don't understand how this can last 5-7 days but then says you can treat every 3-5 days?

Does this mean treat the water once.. it will last 5-7 days let water sit and can treat again on the 8-9th day? So do I have to change the water? Little confused with this

[MondoBongo]

it means you should have a few days between the treatment regimens if doing more than one. typically i leave 2 days in between treatment rounds during my TTM.

i would stick with the usual suspects for ammonia removal, mainly AmQuel or Prime. keep in mind that these two are safe to use with prazi, but should not be combined with any copper based medications.

i would treat your 20, then every other day do a large water change on it, and re-dose the appropriate amount to bring it back up to the correct level. so if you have a 20 gallon and do a 50% water change, then i would dose 1/2tsp with the new water.