Baking Soda Additions

mpyers · 09/04/2016, 09:29 AM

I am currently thinking about adding baking soda during my top offs to keep my pH up.

Right now I run a 65g mixed reef with a 30g sump/refugium. Refugium is lit 18hrs/day opposite of DT lights. This also should be helping my pH out.

I use B-Ionic to maintain Calcium 440ppm, and Alk 3.9meq/L
pH currently sits between 8.1-8.2, and I would like to get it up to 8.3 and keep it there.
I don't have an ATO (yet), and I currently do 1gal/day addition of fresh RO/DI at a slow drip for top off.

I have plenty of surface brake. my return heads aim at the water surface, the overflow creates plenty of bubbles, and between the first stage (filter socks) and second stage (fuge) of the sump, there is a slide gate that keeps the water level in stage 1 about an inch higher than stage 2, to create a small waterfall for more aeration. I have a glass lid that covers about half of the DT, no lid on the sump. I purposefully removed the other half of the glass lid on the DT to increase air circulation.

So all of this got me from pH 7.9 to 8.2. But I want to get the last bit to 8.3, and I'm thinking baking soda.

My question is, how much do I add? If I'm doing 1 gallon top offs at a time. teaspoon?

Thanks!

thegrun · 09/04/2016, 09:58 AM

Your pH is great where it is at, dosing baking soda will drive up your alkalinity to unacceptable levels.

mpyers · 09/04/2016, 10:00 AM

Well what if i cut back on the two part in conjuction with baking soda additions?

thegrun · 09/04/2016, 10:06 AM

The alkalinity portion of your two part is (or should be if you are trying to increase your pH) Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) which is nothing more than baking soda heated to drive off the CO2. Straight baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) will not raise your pH, you need to bake it at 400 degrees for an hour to turn it into Sodium Carbonate which will raise your pH.

mpyers · 09/04/2016, 10:10 AM

Is Is the case for b ionic?

homer1475 · 09/04/2016, 12:10 PM

Why would you want to increase your PH? It's perfectly fine where its at.

Why add stuff to your tank when the levels your at are perfectly within range?

thegrun · 09/04/2016, 12:26 PM

All of the two part systems use either soda carbonate or sodium bicarbonate as their base for the alkalinity portion of the two part. IMHO you are overly worried about your pH, 7.80 and above are fine, 8.0 and above is a great level to be at. Even with my refugium on an opposite to the DT lighting schedule my pH often dips into the 7.9 range at night and I honestly wouldn't worry about it if it fell to 7.80.

hkgar · 09/04/2016, 01:31 PM

Main thing to understand is that the only pratical way to increase PH is to reduce co2 in the water.

Ph is going to be what your tank wants it to be, not what you want it to be. Best to want it to be what it is then both you and the tank will be happy.

Do not chase PH, all you will get is higher dKh and precipitation and all the bad that comes with that.

Dkuhlmann · 09/05/2016, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkgar

Main thing to understand is that the only pratical way to increase PH is to reduce co2 in the water.

Ph is going to be what your tank wants it to be, not what you want it to be. Best to want it to be what it is then both you and the tank will be happy.

Do not chase PH, all you will get is higher dKh and precipitation and all the bad that comes with that.

THIS

Most of us don't even test PH with maybe the exception after the tank is first setup and cycled, after that it's never to be checked again. The key is making sure your dkh is in range and the PH will follow.

Dogshowgrl · 09/05/2016, 05:58 AM

Bad call. pH is a funny thing. If it is stable it is happy. Don't **** it off....

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

mpyers · 09/05/2016, 06:37 AM

There are a lot of benifets from a higher pH. I want those benifets. Other options im considering are a co2 scrubber for my skimmer intake. Or a fresh air line from outside. But those aren't as easy or cheap as baking soda. But due to the collective "hell no" i got from this post i suppose those will be my next research topics.

hkgar · 09/05/2016, 07:14 AM

A good read

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

mpyers · 09/05/2016, 12:05 PM

I've read a lot of Randy Holmes Farley and he is brilliant. But I've never seen that one. I think I'm going to run an air pump from outside into the sump and top of the tank to lower the in home CO2. My skimmer won't pull through a line that long. I doubt it would pull through a co2 scrubber. That will have to wait for a skimmer upgrade.

Thanks everyone for talking me out of a bad idea.

mpyers · 09/05/2016, 12:07 PM

Now how to accomplish this new task. Hmmmm....

hkgar · 09/05/2016, 01:19 PM

I use a RO canister with 1/2 inch ports and a refillable DI cartridge. Both available from BRS. I have no problem with the skimmer pulling the air.

mpyers · 09/05/2016, 03:14 PM

What kind of skimmer do you have?

mpyers · 09/05/2016, 03:15 PM

I have a coralife 125. I want an upgrade already.

thegrun · 09/05/2016, 03:37 PM

There is very little restriction from a scrubber, although with your pH readings it seems like a waste of money, I would be suprised if you see any improvement in the tank

Buzz1329 · 09/05/2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpyers

There are a lot of benifets from a higher pH. I want those benifets. Other options im considering are a co2 scrubber for my skimmer intake. Or a fresh air line from outside. But those aren't as easy or cheap as baking soda. But due to the collective "hell no" i got from this post i suppose those will be my next research topics.

What are the benefits of raising pH to 8.3?

mpyers · 09/05/2016, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz1329

What are the benefits of raising pH to 8.3?

Read the article in the link posted by hkgar. I knew a bit of that already. But there were even more reasons I didn't know. Basically better growth. Yes I'll have more precipitation. But that's good considering growing corals are forcing precipitation in micro environments to grow. I'll go through marginally more 2 part. (Or less if i went with baking soda). But that's fine because it's not very expensive. The real reason I WANT to is because I am obssessed with my tank, and I want it to be perfect. I know there is no perfect, but I've decided MY perfect is 8.3 and so that's what I'm shooting for. I agree i don't want to chase alk around. So I'm going for the removed CO2 option. I know pH of 8.2 is fine but I'm still shooting for 8.3.

Dkuhlmann · 09/05/2016, 06:00 PM

Personally I don't see the benefits outweigh the expense/trouble to chase the 8.3 PH. That is just my opinion.

I've got a bottle of Seachem PH 8.3 buffer I won't use if you're interested in it PM me. I bought all of the meds/chemicals from someone getting out of the hobby and they were part of it.

mpyers · 09/05/2016, 06:23 PM

No thanks. The 1 part buffers usually do more harm than good.

CafeReef · 09/06/2016, 06:40 AM

I remember when I worked at Petsmart some 15+ years ago, we used baking soda to euthanize extremely ill fish.

mpyers · 09/06/2016, 06:52 AM

Well yeah if you overdose it. You can do the same with anything.

hkgar · 09/06/2016, 12:14 PM

I think you asked about my skimmer? I have a Lifereef 36 inch skimmer and it is the best I have ever had, and I have had a few including Coralife and Reef Octopus.

09/04/2016, 09:29 AM	#1
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	Baking Soda Additions I am currently thinking about adding baking soda during my top offs to keep my pH up. Right now I run a 65g mixed reef with a 30g sump/refugium. Refugium is lit 18hrs/day opposite of DT lights. This also should be helping my pH out. I use B-Ionic to maintain Calcium 440ppm, and Alk 3.9meq/L pH currently sits between 8.1-8.2, and I would like to get it up to 8.3 and keep it there. I don't have an ATO (yet), and I currently do 1gal/day addition of fresh RO/DI at a slow drip for top off. I have plenty of surface brake. my return heads aim at the water surface, the overflow creates plenty of bubbles, and between the first stage (filter socks) and second stage (fuge) of the sump, there is a slide gate that keeps the water level in stage 1 about an inch higher than stage 2, to create a small waterfall for more aeration. I have a glass lid that covers about half of the DT, no lid on the sump. I purposefully removed the other half of the glass lid on the DT to increase air circulation. So all of this got me from pH 7.9 to 8.2. But I want to get the last bit to 8.3, and I'm thinking baking soda. My question is, how much do I add? If I'm doing 1 gallon top offs at a time. teaspoon? Thanks!

09/04/2016, 12:10 PM	#6
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Why would you want to increase your PH? It's perfectly fine where its at. Why add stuff to your tank when the levels your at are perfectly within range? __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

09/04/2016, 01:31 PM	#8
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Main thing to understand is that the only pratical way to increase PH is to reduce co2 in the water. Ph is going to be what your tank wants it to be, not what you want it to be. Best to want it to be what it is then both you and the tank will be happy. Do not chase PH, all you will get is higher dKh and precipitation and all the bad that comes with that. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

09/05/2016, 07:14 AM	#12
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	A good read http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/ __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

09/05/2016, 01:19 PM	#15
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	I use a RO canister with 1/2 inch ports and a refillable DI cartridge. Both available from BRS. I have no problem with the skimmer pulling the air. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

09/04/2016, 09:58 AM	#2
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Your pH is great where it is at, dosing baking soda will drive up your alkalinity to unacceptable levels.

09/04/2016, 10:00 AM	#3
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	Well what if i cut back on the two part in conjuction with baking soda additions?

09/04/2016, 10:06 AM	#4
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	The alkalinity portion of your two part is (or should be if you are trying to increase your pH) Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) which is nothing more than baking soda heated to drive off the CO2. Straight baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) will not raise your pH, you need to bake it at 400 degrees for an hour to turn it into Sodium Carbonate which will raise your pH.

09/04/2016, 10:10 AM	#5
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	Is Is the case for b ionic?

09/04/2016, 12:26 PM	#7
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	All of the two part systems use either soda carbonate or sodium bicarbonate as their base for the alkalinity portion of the two part. IMHO you are overly worried about your pH, 7.80 and above are fine, 8.0 and above is a great level to be at. Even with my refugium on an opposite to the DT lighting schedule my pH often dips into the 7.9 range at night and I honestly wouldn't worry about it if it fell to 7.80.

09/05/2016, 05:58 AM	#10
Dogshowgrl Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: North Central Florida Posts: 298	Bad call. pH is a funny thing. If it is stable it is happy. Don't **** it off.... Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

09/05/2016, 06:37 AM	#11
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	There are a lot of benifets from a higher pH. I want those benifets. Other options im considering are a co2 scrubber for my skimmer intake. Or a fresh air line from outside. But those aren't as easy or cheap as baking soda. But due to the collective "hell no" i got from this post i suppose those will be my next research topics.

09/05/2016, 12:05 PM	#13
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	I've read a lot of Randy Holmes Farley and he is brilliant. But I've never seen that one. I think I'm going to run an air pump from outside into the sump and top of the tank to lower the in home CO2. My skimmer won't pull through a line that long. I doubt it would pull through a co2 scrubber. That will have to wait for a skimmer upgrade. Thanks everyone for talking me out of a bad idea.

09/05/2016, 12:07 PM	#14
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	Now how to accomplish this new task. Hmmmm....

09/05/2016, 03:14 PM	#16
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	What kind of skimmer do you have?

09/05/2016, 03:15 PM	#17
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	I have a coralife 125. I want an upgrade already.

09/05/2016, 03:37 PM	#18
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	There is very little restriction from a scrubber, although with your pH readings it seems like a waste of money, I would be suprised if you see any improvement in the tank Last edited by thegrun; 09/05/2016 at 03:52 PM.

09/05/2016, 06:00 PM	#21
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	Personally I don't see the benefits outweigh the expense/trouble to chase the 8.3 PH. That is just my opinion. I've got a bottle of Seachem PH 8.3 buffer I won't use if you're interested in it PM me. I bought all of the meds/chemicals from someone getting out of the hobby and they were part of it. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

09/05/2016, 06:23 PM	#22
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	No thanks. The 1 part buffers usually do more harm than good.

09/06/2016, 06:40 AM	#23
CafeReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Elkhorn, NE Posts: 1,405	I remember when I worked at Petsmart some 15+ years ago, we used baking soda to euthanize extremely ill fish. __________________ 50 Gallon cube

09/06/2016, 06:52 AM	#24
mpyers Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Cambridge, OH Posts: 311	Well yeah if you overdose it. You can do the same with anything.

09/06/2016, 12:14 PM	#25
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	I think you asked about my skimmer? I have a Lifereef 36 inch skimmer and it is the best I have ever had, and I have had a few including Coralife and Reef Octopus. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels