Skimmerless systems?

Mad_Reefer · 10/03/2016, 10:14 PM

I've never been big on skimmers. The adjustment, noise, cleaning, cost... And they seem to take food out of the water. I know a skimmer is not needed for a great softy tank, but wondering how many people have success with sps without skimming.
I have a new 40 breeder with 29g sump/fuge and I haven't really decided what I want to do yet. I'll probably keep it lightly stocked. Two ocellaris and a bicolor blenny so far. Maybe one more small fish and a couple cleaner shrimp. Without tons of water changes, can I be successful keeping any coral?

Taahirs · 10/03/2016, 11:41 PM

I know someone who had an sps tank skimmer less. He had an algae scrubber for nutrient removal. His tank looked pretty nice, however he shut down after less than a year so not sure about how it would do long term.

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Mr D smack · 10/04/2016, 05:31 AM

Maybe I can get my buddy to post some of his pics from his skimmer less system. His growth and PE is amazing. All I know about his system is he does water changes

ktownhero · 10/04/2016, 05:50 AM

I kept nanos for many years 10 - 20g with great success. I wouldn't even consider a skimmer for a tank that small. And honestly after it was established I rarely even did water changes. It was happy, healthy, clean (no algae) and beautiful. I had soft corals and a frogspawn, all of which were growing and happy. I just made sure to have a solid place to grow chaeto.

I'm starting my first large reef and this will be the first time I use a skimmer. And honestly I'm not even sure it is still needed, but I'm trying to follow common advice for a larger tank. I'm tempted to ditch one in my plans and just make the whole skimmer chamber a refugium.

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ReefsandGeeks · 10/04/2016, 06:44 AM

I had always throught that they can't do that much, and kept a decent tank without one. However, when I got into SPS I got one and would never go back. After seeing the gunk the skimmer pulls out of the water, and the nitrates drop it's easy to see the merit of using a skimmer. It also provides considerable oxygenation for the water (I actually had a fish loss after forgetting to plug mine back in before). Plus it gives you the ability to carbon/vinegar/vodka dose, which I do and love how easy it is to control nitrates.

When I first got my HOB skimmer, I thought it was quite unsightly, but you get used to it pretty quick. Also it does make some noise, but to me it's become a calming hum, nothing that bothers me. The noise can be reduced by putting a muffling device on the air intake. that is where most of the noise comes from. I have my air intake hose routed into the tank stand which easily reduces the noise in the room by 50%.

What are your water parameters now, without a skimmer? If you're able to keep nitrates down to 2ppm or so without a skimmer, than you would be okay to try some cheap "test" sps frags to see how they work out in your tank. You may be okay without one, but keeping a more heavily stocked tank, I'd never consider a tank without one.

Mad_Reefer · 10/04/2016, 07:33 AM

My nitrates are between 10-20. I've watched them go up and haven't done a water change for about a month. Phosphate is low and macro is slowly growing. The system is new and I'm still hoping to get some deep sand anaerobic zones. I've had a pocillopora in there for about a month that seems happy.

ReefsandGeeks · 10/04/2016, 09:03 AM

How deep is your sandbed? if you want much useful anaerobic zones it'll need to be at least 4 inches deep in at least a good portion of it. Less may still be some benefit, but that seems to be the sweetspot for where the benefit really starts.

The pocillopora is one of the easier to keep SPS and will be more forgiving of higher nitrates than say acros. Before you try any of the more finiky SPS I'd make sure you can keep your nitrates below 5ppm consistently, not just after a water change. This can be done, but depending on your system, may mean more frequent and larger water changes. If your bioload is low, than that would help extend the time between water changes as well. Since you don't have any of the picky SPS yet, you can monitor your nitrates and see where they land after your tank has stabilized some and make a judgment call on if you want to perform the required water changes needed, however frequently that may be, or if you want to go for a skimmer, or if it's just not worth it for the picky SPS.

Mad_Reefer · 10/04/2016, 09:20 AM

I have two types of sand. I know the super fine oolite makes a good dsb and doesn't require the same depth, but I only have 2 inches in my fuge. I can get more but I haven't made the time yet to harvest some. I have a different chamber with about 4 inches of course sand and rubble.

worldbook · 10/04/2016, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad_Reefer

I've never been big on skimmers. The adjustment, noise, cleaning, cost... And they seem to take food out of the water. I know a skimmer is not needed for a great softy tank, but wondering how many people have success with sps without skimming.
I have a new 40 breeder with 29g sump/fuge and I haven't really decided what I want to do yet. I'll probably keep it lightly stocked. Two ocellaris and a bicolor blenny so far. Maybe one more small fish and a couple cleaner shrimp. Without tons of water changes, can I be successful keeping any coral?

I believe weekly water changes will be necessary to have a chance at success with a skimmerless SPS tank. Not sure if I have run across any ones of note on the forums. Maybe someone with experience with doing this will chime in.

rams · 10/04/2016, 11:21 AM

I am not big on skimmers and have a system without. I am not big on bio load(fish) though, not a heavy feeder either. I have 4 large fish total in a 93. I have high flow (2x Tunze 6105), great lighting and a sump full of live rock (bio filter). I do water changes with Reef Crystals once a month if I'm lucky. But I do pay attention to my inhabitants and will do water changes as needed. It can be done. I'm not big on water chemistry either. For this very reason -> drastic changes in water chemistry because a reading is off. Here is a link to my tank in our local forum.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2601095

Mghanayem · 10/04/2016, 11:31 AM

I have a skimmer-less system. I run only a canister, 2 powerheads, and a surface skimmer... My corals are popping and fish are happy.

Tank has been up for 6 years, it's a 60 gal truvu hex. corals have only been in there for 1 year, but they are growing

worldbook · 10/04/2016, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mghanayem

I have a skimmer-less system. I run only a canister, 2 powerheads, and a surface skimmer... My corals are popping and fish are happy.

Tank has been up for 6 years, it's a 60 gal truvu hex. corals have only been in there for 1 year, but they are growing

What media are you running in the canister?

Mad_Reefer · 10/04/2016, 12:20 PM

rams, your tank looks great!

Timfish · 10/05/2016, 08:55 PM

Yup! I don't know what you call tons of water changes but these systems get between 5% and 10% weekly.

http://youtu.be/_Uf5IyXvajg

http://youtu.be/-eCQSVdqBQA

http://youtu.be/5AnmQXmE8d0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyM6Y39iQ8M

10/03/2016, 10:14 PM	#1
Mad_Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 249	Skimmerless systems? I've never been big on skimmers. The adjustment, noise, cleaning, cost... And they seem to take food out of the water. I know a skimmer is not needed for a great softy tank, but wondering how many people have success with sps without skimming. I have a new 40 breeder with 29g sump/fuge and I haven't really decided what I want to do yet. I'll probably keep it lightly stocked. Two ocellaris and a bicolor blenny so far. Maybe one more small fish and a couple cleaner shrimp. Without tons of water changes, can I be successful keeping any coral?

10/04/2016, 11:21 AM	#10
rams ramtheory Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia, IL EM-48 Posts: 6,757	I am not big on skimmers and have a system without. I am not big on bio load(fish) though, not a heavy feeder either. I have 4 large fish total in a 93. I have high flow (2x Tunze 6105), great lighting and a sump full of live rock (bio filter). I do water changes with Reef Crystals once a month if I'm lucky. But I do pay attention to my inhabitants and will do water changes as needed. It can be done. I'm not big on water chemistry either. For this very reason -> drastic changes in water chemistry because a reading is off. Here is a link to my tank in our local forum. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2601095 __________________ Dennis \| Saint Louis Area Saltwater Hobbyist(SLASH) Current Tank Info: 60 cube tank, 93 cube tank

10/05/2016, 08:55 PM	#14
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Yup! I don't know what you call tons of water changes but these systems get between 5% and 10% weekly. http://youtu.be/_Uf5IyXvajg http://youtu.be/-eCQSVdqBQA http://youtu.be/5AnmQXmE8d0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyM6Y39iQ8M __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

10/03/2016, 11:41 PM	#2
Taahirs Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 376	I know someone who had an sps tank skimmer less. He had an algae scrubber for nutrient removal. His tank looked pretty nice, however he shut down after less than a year so not sure about how it would do long term. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10/04/2016, 05:31 AM	#3
Mr D smack Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pevely Mo. Posts: 5,485	Maybe I can get my buddy to post some of his pics from his skimmer less system. His growth and PE is amazing. All I know about his system is he does water changes

10/04/2016, 05:50 AM	#4
ktownhero Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 1,426	I kept nanos for many years 10 - 20g with great success. I wouldn't even consider a skimmer for a tank that small. And honestly after it was established I rarely even did water changes. It was happy, healthy, clean (no algae) and beautiful. I had soft corals and a frogspawn, all of which were growing and happy. I just made sure to have a solid place to grow chaeto. I'm starting my first large reef and this will be the first time I use a skimmer. And honestly I'm not even sure it is still needed, but I'm trying to follow common advice for a larger tank. I'm tempted to ditch one in my plans and just make the whole skimmer chamber a refugium. Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

10/04/2016, 06:44 AM	#5
ReefsandGeeks Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,708	I had always throught that they can't do that much, and kept a decent tank without one. However, when I got into SPS I got one and would never go back. After seeing the gunk the skimmer pulls out of the water, and the nitrates drop it's easy to see the merit of using a skimmer. It also provides considerable oxygenation for the water (I actually had a fish loss after forgetting to plug mine back in before). Plus it gives you the ability to carbon/vinegar/vodka dose, which I do and love how easy it is to control nitrates. When I first got my HOB skimmer, I thought it was quite unsightly, but you get used to it pretty quick. Also it does make some noise, but to me it's become a calming hum, nothing that bothers me. The noise can be reduced by putting a muffling device on the air intake. that is where most of the noise comes from. I have my air intake hose routed into the tank stand which easily reduces the noise in the room by 50%. What are your water parameters now, without a skimmer? If you're able to keep nitrates down to 2ppm or so without a skimmer, than you would be okay to try some cheap "test" sps frags to see how they work out in your tank. You may be okay without one, but keeping a more heavily stocked tank, I'd never consider a tank without one.

10/04/2016, 07:33 AM	#6
Mad_Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 249	My nitrates are between 10-20. I've watched them go up and haven't done a water change for about a month. Phosphate is low and macro is slowly growing. The system is new and I'm still hoping to get some deep sand anaerobic zones. I've had a pocillopora in there for about a month that seems happy.

10/04/2016, 09:03 AM	#7
ReefsandGeeks Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,708	How deep is your sandbed? if you want much useful anaerobic zones it'll need to be at least 4 inches deep in at least a good portion of it. Less may still be some benefit, but that seems to be the sweetspot for where the benefit really starts. The pocillopora is one of the easier to keep SPS and will be more forgiving of higher nitrates than say acros. Before you try any of the more finiky SPS I'd make sure you can keep your nitrates below 5ppm consistently, not just after a water change. This can be done, but depending on your system, may mean more frequent and larger water changes. If your bioload is low, than that would help extend the time between water changes as well. Since you don't have any of the picky SPS yet, you can monitor your nitrates and see where they land after your tank has stabilized some and make a judgment call on if you want to perform the required water changes needed, however frequently that may be, or if you want to go for a skimmer, or if it's just not worth it for the picky SPS.

10/04/2016, 09:20 AM	#8
Mad_Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 249	I have two types of sand. I know the super fine oolite makes a good dsb and doesn't require the same depth, but I only have 2 inches in my fuge. I can get more but I haven't made the time yet to harvest some. I have a different chamber with about 4 inches of course sand and rubble.

10/04/2016, 11:31 AM	#11
Mghanayem Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Deep North Posts: 77	I have a skimmer-less system. I run only a canister, 2 powerheads, and a surface skimmer... My corals are popping and fish are happy. Tank has been up for 6 years, it's a 60 gal truvu hex. corals have only been in there for 1 year, but they are growing

10/04/2016, 12:20 PM	#13
Mad_Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 249	rams, your tank looks great!