Chilling via the basement floor?

Kevin Guthrie · 12/13/2016, 10:27 PM

I have a stock tank sump in the basement and here in Michigan the basement floor is pretty cold. Long ago I put an insulation foam sheet between the sump and the floor to cut down on heating in the winter, but then the heat goes up more than before in the summer. Hmm...

Has anyone tried creating a closed loop "chiller" by just running a long length of tubing or PVC pipe along the basement floor and back as a radiator? I've ordered a solenoid so that I can run it from my temperature controller. Thinking I can tap off the gfo outspew so that when the solenoid opens (too hot) the water goes thru the loop back to the sump, and when the solenoid is closed it just drops into the sump and bypasses the loop. I don't know how many watts the solenoid is but it won't impact the electric bill much.

Failure mode (hey, everything fails eventually) would be safe - solenoid shuts, no cooling. Which is what I have today. My only concern would be that the loop contains dead water for 20 hours a day and can go anaerobic on me. That could be mitigated by returning near the skimmer intake.

Any thoughts?

billdogg · 12/14/2016, 08:37 AM

Because of the insulating properties of either vinyl or pvc, I would think that any effect would be minimal. I do remember a thread from a number of years ago where a guy dug a hole and used (I think) titanium tubing for passive cooling.

Ruu · 12/14/2016, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

Because of the insulating properties of either vinyl or pvc, I would think that any effect would be minimal. I do remember a thread from a number of years ago where a guy dug a hole and used (I think) titanium tubing for passive cooling.

as someone who has run a 15' plumbing run through a cold house, I can tell you that pvc doesn't insulate all that well. You couldn't drop a short length of pvc into your tank and expect it to be an effective heat exchanger, but running through a long length of pvc (or just vinyl hose if you are cheap) could well get you to where you would need to be depending upon the temperature differential.

I would be very concerned about its anaerobic potential though. Someone more knowledgeable than I would have to comment about that.

dave

Mishri · 12/14/2016, 05:42 PM

get a bunch of plastic tubing, have a coil of 25 ft in your sump, 25 ft in a bucket of ice water, (have the tubing empty into the bucket of ice water). have the pump turn on when the temp in the sump reaches xx degrees. and turn off at xx. a controller should be able to do that.. you can use ice packs or containers with frozen water in them that you switch out each morning or when you get home from work. in the past i've thrown 2 liter bottles of frozen water in my aquariums on my lunch break to keep them cool in the afternoon hehe... it actually worked well...

Mishri · 12/14/2016, 05:58 PM

this is what you could use to control the heat/cooling function:

Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1100w, w/ Sensor

as far as using the floor.. unless it's buried I don't think it would be exposed to enough floor to change the temp of the water even for a long run.. for thermal conduction liquids or solids are much more effective, and only a very small part of the pipe would be touching the cool floor.

SFish · 12/14/2016, 06:57 PM

Get a small refrigerator and run hose in it.

Kevin Guthrie · 12/14/2016, 06:59 PM

I'm looking for something automated here and already have a controller for the heater.

I'll give it a shot and see what the temp diff is. Unless someone can suggest a way to get vinyl tubing to lie flat on the floor, I'll go with a 40' run of 1/2" cpvc. Should run $25 for pipe and fittings.

SFish · 12/14/2016, 07:51 PM

https://youtu.be/n5s8Cu59-NM

You only need it in summer plus you could automate it

Kevin Guthrie · 12/14/2016, 10:06 PM

Thanks guys for the suggestions. Just found out the valve is on backorder...

@SFish, thanks for the link. A fridge is more electric bill so not an option. But it raises some issues.

In the comments the guy doesn't realize he has to fill the whole hose with water first, the poor little MJ can't push against a foot of head per coil to prime the thing for him. Guess I have to make sure I don't end up with a lot of air in the pipe or I'll face the same issue.

By adding a submersible pump he is basically adding a heater to his system in order to cool it.

I see little point in the ball valve. You would get the best heat exchange in the fridge by leaving it wide open which will make the hose in the fridge marginally warmer. GPH times delta temp and all it might make a difference.

I guess they didn't worry about anaerobic when the controller shuts it down for a while.

outssider · 12/17/2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFish

https://youtu.be/n5s8Cu59-NM

You only need it in summer plus you could automate it

this dope left the brass connection on when he put the hoses together...

12/13/2016, 10:27 PM	#1
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	Chilling via the basement floor? I have a stock tank sump in the basement and here in Michigan the basement floor is pretty cold. Long ago I put an insulation foam sheet between the sump and the floor to cut down on heating in the winter, but then the heat goes up more than before in the summer. Hmm... Has anyone tried creating a closed loop "chiller" by just running a long length of tubing or PVC pipe along the basement floor and back as a radiator? I've ordered a solenoid so that I can run it from my temperature controller. Thinking I can tap off the gfo outspew so that when the solenoid opens (too hot) the water goes thru the loop back to the sump, and when the solenoid is closed it just drops into the sump and bypasses the loop. I don't know how many watts the solenoid is but it won't impact the electric bill much. Failure mode (hey, everything fails eventually) would be safe - solenoid shuts, no cooling. Which is what I have today. My only concern would be that the loop contains dead water for 20 hours a day and can go anaerobic on me. That could be mitigated by returning near the skimmer intake. Any thoughts?

12/14/2016, 08:37 AM	#2
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Because of the insulating properties of either vinyl or pvc, I would think that any effect would be minimal. I do remember a thread from a number of years ago where a guy dug a hole and used (I think) titanium tubing for passive cooling. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

12/14/2016, 05:42 PM	#4
Mishri Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Great Falls, MT Posts: 1,404	get a bunch of plastic tubing, have a coil of 25 ft in your sump, 25 ft in a bucket of ice water, (have the tubing empty into the bucket of ice water). have the pump turn on when the temp in the sump reaches xx degrees. and turn off at xx. a controller should be able to do that.. you can use ice packs or containers with frozen water in them that you switch out each morning or when you get home from work. in the past i've thrown 2 liter bottles of frozen water in my aquariums on my lunch break to keep them cool in the afternoon hehe... it actually worked well... __________________ 300 gallon 8ft long, 2x xf250 gyre, reef octopus 250-int - work in progress Aquarist since 1986

12/14/2016, 05:58 PM	#5
Mishri Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Great Falls, MT Posts: 1,404	this is what you could use to control the heat/cooling function: Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1100w, w/ Sensor as far as using the floor.. unless it's buried I don't think it would be exposed to enough floor to change the temp of the water even for a long run.. for thermal conduction liquids or solids are much more effective, and only a very small part of the pipe would be touching the cool floor. __________________ 300 gallon 8ft long, 2x xf250 gyre, reef octopus 250-int - work in progress Aquarist since 1986

12/14/2016, 06:57 PM	#6
SFish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,062	Get a small refrigerator and run hose in it.

12/14/2016, 06:59 PM	#7
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	I'm looking for something automated here and already have a controller for the heater. I'll give it a shot and see what the temp diff is. Unless someone can suggest a way to get vinyl tubing to lie flat on the floor, I'll go with a 40' run of 1/2" cpvc. Should run $25 for pipe and fittings.

12/14/2016, 07:51 PM	#8
SFish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,062	https://youtu.be/n5s8Cu59-NM You only need it in summer plus you could automate it

12/14/2016, 10:06 PM	#9
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	Thanks guys for the suggestions. Just found out the valve is on backorder... @SFish, thanks for the link. A fridge is more electric bill so not an option. But it raises some issues. In the comments the guy doesn't realize he has to fill the whole hose with water first, the poor little MJ can't push against a foot of head per coil to prime the thing for him. Guess I have to make sure I don't end up with a lot of air in the pipe or I'll face the same issue. By adding a submersible pump he is basically adding a heater to his system in order to cool it. I see little point in the ball valve. You would get the best heat exchange in the fridge by leaving it wide open which will make the hose in the fridge marginally warmer. GPH times delta temp and all it might make a difference. I guess they didn't worry about anaerobic when the controller shuts it down for a while.