Has LED surpassed Halides?

[pleasants9]

I have been out of the hobby for about 4 years. I am looking at getting back into the reef life but while shopping for systems it seems the LED's have become much more prevalent and the Halide options/combo lights are dwindling. Have the LEDs finally gotten to a point where they outperform the halides in regards to coral growth and heat or are they just more desirable because of the fancy controls you have over the lights?

[ElementalJ]

Get ready for the debate!

[captjab]

Here is my list of pros and cons of each. These are just my opinions so I'm not here to argue.
Halide Pros- Most natural looking, best color and growth
Cons- Heat, bulb replacement, power usage.
LEDs Pros- Less heat, tons of color adjustability, low power consumption.
Cons- Original purchase price, unnatural look, to much shimmer in some brands.


T5 with LED supplement is my favorite, but you didn't mention T5.

To answer your question my opinion would be no.

[Hentz]

LED's have come a long ways.

While I've only been in the hobby for going on 5 years, I've done lots and lots and lots of research.

I've never personally ran Metal Halides myself, so I can't speak from personal experience with them. However I've had many close friends here and locally run metal halides.

Metal Halides are incredibly powerful lights. They have been proven with success for over a decade with incredible results for all sorts of corals. They provide great spread with just a single fixture. Corals can grow comfortably knowing they have plenty of light all over them.

Now while Metal Halides are powerful and proven success, they have some obvious downfalls. They run quite hot. There are clear ways to obviously reduce the heat transferred from the light to the tank, however those methods aren't always the most cost friendly. Aside from that, the units are generally big and bulky. Granted you have a few fixtures that are oh-so sexy, like the Giesemann Spectra and Infiniti with built in T5's. Though others are usually a bit bulky with a big reflector. They do the job, well, however moving into the newer age, people seem to be wanting more sleek and contemporary-ish looks.

Acclimation for Metal Halides usually revolves in turning on/off for shorter periods, gradually increasing the length of the time you run the fixture or lowering the fixture over time.

LED's are still obviously new and upcoming, though they're continuously proving themselves that they can produce similar and sometimes even better results in coral growth and color. The LED's run a lot cooler and much more efficient. Living in a house in Las Vegas for example, won't leave you with heat issues during the peak of summer. Aside from that, most LED's are completely controllable. Some you can control two colors, some you can control the color and intensity with the spectrum already programmed in, and some you can completely control each individual color the LED fixture offers. Not only that, but you can ramp them up/down. While some come with controllers, others don't. But this will allow you to create your settings everyday. Some allow you to have lightening storms and even introduce certain %'s of cloud coverage to make it that much more real. Cool stuff, right?!

Kinda.... The issue we get into here with all the cool controls is... Well.. The controls. It's all fun and games for you, however your coral will suffer from the intensities and spectrum changing often. It seems people who jump into LED's wanna try the new profiles, or what Joe Blow is running over his tank because damn, he's got some awesome success. That's cool that they want to try it, but most give it 1-2 months and think hell, this isn't working. Lets try something else. Well wrong! Unless your corals are burning and dying or reaching for more light, don't adjust it. Set it and forget it. Corals will adjust to the spectrum and intensity. Eventually they will get comfortable and take off in growth, all set aside from parameters.

The other issue with LED's is coverage. Now while you only needed 1 metal halide over a tank for SPS dominant (talking larger colonies), you may need 2-3 LED fixtures. SPS colonies especially will usually suffer under LED's because a part of them underneath is not receiving any light due to shadowing. This usually means more $$$ for another fixture to help increase the areas a coral will receive light.

Acclimation for LED's has two-ish options. 1) You manually increase the % of the intensity every 1-2 weeks by 3-5%. 2) Some come with the option of allowing you to use your settings the way they are, but automatically increase intensity over the course of 3-4 weeks or however long YOU choose.

I personally have ran only T5's and LED's. I've had amazing success with both. The key for LED's is, since they're not plug and play, find a profile your corals seem to enjoy or most people have success with and STICK TO IT. Don't change it or anything like that.

In conclusion, both will do exactly what you want. Both will grow and color corals incredibly well, given the right parameters and etc.. You'll have to personally write out what YOU are looking for a in a light and what YOUR budget is. Do you want something thats plug-n-play but gives off lots of heat and don't mind replacing bulbs? Or do you want something you can have a sunrise/sunset with to enjoy your tank longer, play with settings, and can have much cooler running fixture?

If it were me, like I did just recently, I'd go with LED's. To save money, you can buy well taken care of fixtures for $1-300 less than you would brand new that include mounts and all that good stuff. Though you will hear many mixed reviews.

Either way, YOU WON'T BE WRONG!

Cheers and happy new year!

[captjab]

Great post Hentz.

Hey Pleasants, I didn't look at who made the original post when I first saw this.
Good to see you back. I've just got back into it from taking a break also.

[ElementalJ]

Yea man! Yea!!!

[ReefCowboy]

Important to mention that the usual problems with leds are slowly becoming smaller as newer fixtures(2 recent years) are coming with recommended presets and much better light diffusion, reducing user error.
My guess is in 5 years leds will be in a totally different place supporting corals.

[ca1ore]

I ran my reef tanks under HQI (plus some actinic VHO) from 1988 to 2009. Took a four year break, then started up again in early 2013. Went mostly LED initially, exclusively LED since 2014 with no regrets. Growth is just as good, the aesthetic can be better, and coral coloration is on par (pun intended). Some corals looked better under MH, others look better under LED. But it's a push.

Coral success aside, my biggest benefit from LED is that I don't need a chiller. Good because mine rusted out in the shed during my sabbatical.

[jason2459]

LED + T5HO gets my vote.

[NanoReefWanabe]

Pound for pound LEDss will far out perform halides in regards to PAR...comparing apples to apples 400w halides compared to 400w spot/COB led fixture will pale (pun intended) in comparison...color is subjective...everyone perceives it different, that said halides have virtually zero adjustability where as LEDs can generally be fully adjusted and only marginally effects over all PAR...LEDs generally are considerably more cost effective and you likely won't need a chiller or as many watts..sticking to apples and apples...you don't need a chiller or have costly bulb replacements every six months...I have had both..I won't go back to halides...others will be completely opposite...at this point it comes to preference...

[chris@CoralVue]

LED passed MH & T5 over 5 years ago.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Osric]

LED seems to be winning in this thread but you can find plenty of 'back to halide' threads too. Overall I think there's a lot of opinion on both sides but the trend I see is that those who had halide and switched to LED are more likely to go back to tried and true, and those who started a system on LED are more likely to succeed with it (even if they have other systems with halides).

It's a big question for me too, as I need to buy lights for my 220 and had basically settled on Radion G4s but search up the back to halide threads for a good dose of uncertainty and doubt.

[zsuman101]

Originally Posted by chris@CoralVue

LED passed MH & T5 over 5 years ago.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

i disagree, i use g4 radions now , before that it was g3 radions, b4 that it was kessils all with t5 supplement and have never approached the succes or growth i had running radiums with hqi. imo nothing beats radiums nothing... but the heat,the fixtures are hideous (unless its a giesman) and the cost to run them and chill the tank are the deal breakers for me. but nothing comes close to radiums period

[reefwiser]

Originally Posted by Hentz

LED's have come a long ways.

While I've only been in the hobby for going on 5 years, I've done lots and lots and lots of research.

I've never personally ran Metal Halides myself, so I can't speak from personal experience with them. However I've had many close friends here and locally run metal halides.

Metal Halides are incredibly powerful lights. They have been proven with success for over a decade with incredible results for all sorts of corals. They provide great spread with just a single fixture. Corals can grow comfortably knowing they have plenty of light all over them.

Now while Metal Halides are powerful and proven success, they have some obvious downfalls. They run quite hot. There are clear ways to obviously reduce the heat transferred from the light to the tank, however those methods aren't always the most cost friendly. Aside from that, the units are generally big and bulky. Granted you have a few fixtures that are oh-so sexy, like the Giesemann Spectra and Infiniti with built in T5's. Though others are usually a bit bulky with a big reflector. They do the job, well, however moving into the newer age, people seem to be wanting more sleek and contemporary-ish looks.

Acclimation for Metal Halides usually revolves in turning on/off for shorter periods, gradually increasing the length of the time you run the fixture or lowering the fixture over time.

LED's are still obviously new and upcoming, though they're continuously proving themselves that they can produce similar and sometimes even better results in coral growth and color. The LED's run a lot cooler and much more efficient. Living in a house in Las Vegas for example, won't leave you with heat issues during the peak of summer. Aside from that, most LED's are completely controllable. Some you can control two colors, some you can control the color and intensity with the spectrum already programmed in, and some you can completely control each individual color the LED fixture offers. Not only that, but you can ramp them up/down. While some come with controllers, others don't. But this will allow you to create your settings everyday. Some allow you to have lightening storms and even introduce certain %'s of cloud coverage to make it that much more real. Cool stuff, right?!

Kinda.... The issue we get into here with all the cool controls is... Well.. The controls. It's all fun and games for you, however your coral will suffer from the intensities and spectrum changing often. It seems people who jump into LED's wanna try the new profiles, or what Joe Blow is running over his tank because damn, he's got some awesome success. That's cool that they want to try it, but most give it 1-2 months and think hell, this isn't working. Lets try something else. Well wrong! Unless your corals are burning and dying or reaching for more light, don't adjust it. Set it and forget it. Corals will adjust to the spectrum and intensity. Eventually they will get comfortable and take off in growth, all set aside from parameters.

The other issue with LED's is coverage. Now while you only needed 1 metal halide over a tank for SPS dominant (talking larger colonies), you may need 2-3 LED fixtures. SPS colonies especially will usually suffer under LED's because a part of them underneath is not receiving any light due to shadowing. This usually means more $$$ for another fixture to help increase the areas a coral will receive light.

Acclimation for LED's has two-ish options. 1) You manually increase the % of the intensity every 1-2 weeks by 3-5%. 2) Some come with the option of allowing you to use your settings the way they are, but automatically increase intensity over the course of 3-4 weeks or however long YOU choose.

I personally have ran only T5's and LED's. I've had amazing success with both. The key for LED's is, since they're not plug and play, find a profile your corals seem to enjoy or most people have success with and STICK TO IT. Don't change it or anything like that.

In conclusion, both will do exactly what you want. Both will grow and color corals incredibly well, given the right parameters and etc.. You'll have to personally write out what YOU are looking for a in a light and what YOUR budget is. Do you want something thats plug-n-play but gives off lots of heat and don't mind replacing bulbs? Or do you want something you can have a sunrise/sunset with to enjoy your tank longer, play with settings, and can have much cooler running fixture?

If it were me, like I did just recently, I'd go with LED's. To save money, you can buy well taken care of fixtures for $1-300 less than you would brand new that include mounts and all that good stuff. Though you will hear many mixed reviews.

Either way, YOU WON'T BE WRONG!

Cheers and happy new year!

You need to run MH to really is the difference. They do not run that hot with the new ballast that people are using today.

Problems with LED. They are not plug in and grow lights. With SPS shading is a real and deadly problem. As someone who will read posts in many forums I see way too many hobbyist struggle with LED's than MH or T5.
People spend tons of money on LED systems double what you would spend on a MH system.
"To save money" then a new LED lamp comes out and everyone rushes to purchase it as this "ONE" fixes all the problems and so you see tons of posts about how great the next new LED light is and the company rakes in the sales. An all those last years great LED lamps go on the used equipment forum for a quarter of the price the hobbyist paid for them last year.

LED while it will grow corals slowly it will not grow corals at their natural rate which MH will do.

LED manufactures need to work on getting systems to plug and grow state that T5 and Mh are at. But currently hobbyist let them make money on promises and then add T5 retrofits to try and prop up the expensive " they work great LED's that they purchased for 800 dollars a fixture that " finally" do the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jason2459]

Not all LEDs are that expensive...

[SalinFL]

I've never had any shading issues with the three different brands of LEDs I have. None of my tanks show any decrease in growth due to using LEDs. In fact I supply my lfs with a certain flavor of green star polyps that he can't get.

[Radioheadx14]

I have ran every type of lighting, and while not an expert, I would say if you are getting acropora or heavy SPS in your tank, I would suggest MH or mostly t5. If anything else (sofites, lps, etc.) LEDs would be great. The problem with LEDs is they are pretty focus light sources so you need a lot of fixtures or a lot of spread if you have dense branching corals like acros. With a lot of LEDs spread out, you can run into the disco effect, which I couldnt stand.

FWIW, I run 250w MH w/ x4 39w t5s on a Acro heavy tank. If I were to set up a softie tank or LPS, I would go Kessil.

[ReefCowboy]

I ran Halides, its not all "plug and play" success like many here describe. There are Lots of halide tanks that do awesome, and lots that do poor just like Leds.
Thing is with halides, there is a bulb, reflector, and an "on/off" switch button. It was really the best known method so users patiently worked with them and found ways the tank would do well. Leds have so many fixture options and concepts, and people these days want a reef magazine tank growth and color overnight. Many out there cant tweek the light to get what is missing with the corals. They give the fixtures maybe 6 months and then want to go back to what did best to their corals.
When I ran halides, was happy with the tank, but miserable with how hot the tank ran. You ALWAYS think about ways to end that heat nightmare. It does at somepoint become a deal breaker, and forces you to look at options.

Shading is a big problem, but that comes from crappy fixtures or the hobbyist not getting enough fixtures. I got shadowing with my reefbrite 250 watt halide ran previously also. My strawberry shortcake never looked as good as it does now under leds. My current fixture covers 36" WAY better than the halide+ kessils supplementing ever did. My Jedi mindtrick developed colors it never did with halides. The system has been the same, same salt, flow, fish.
With halides, you can bleach, discolor, and make corals look like crap if one doesnt know how to observe them and change when needed.
Also important to remember that lighting alone doesnt save the day if the tank isnt doing good for other reasons.
Sanjay said his tank grows faster and colors better now, with leds than it did with halides.
More often than we know failure is due to user error, IF the Leds used are of recent coverage technology/spectrum.

[zooman72]

Originally Posted by reefwiser

You need to run MH to really is the difference. They do not run that hot with the new ballast that people are using today.

Define "that hot"? It is simple - LED's do not radiate heat down into the aquarium, whereas MH does, no matter what "magical" ballast one uses...

Problems with LED. They are not plug in and grow lights. With SPS shading is a real and deadly problem. As someone who will read posts in many forums I see way too many hobbyist struggle with LED's than MH or T5.

Metal halides aren't really "plug and grow" either - many hobbyists have bleached corals under MH's, especially early on in their usage. Many current and new hobbyists have used LED's "safely" and "successfully" by doing some simple research.

Shading does actually occur with MH too, and is highly dependent on the reflector size, plus lots of MH users also supplement w/ T5. LED shading (and especially spread) can be mitigated in smaller form-factor fixtures by simply raising the fixture higher above the aquarium.

People spend tons of money on LED systems double what you would spend on a MH system.

Plenty of aquarists have used less expensive fixtures (i.e. ReefBreeders and the like) quite successfully.

"To save money" then a new LED lamp comes out and everyone rushes to purchase it as this "ONE" fixes all the problems and so you see tons of posts about how great the next new LED light is and the company rakes in the sales. An all those last years great LED lamps go on the used equipment forum for a quarter of the price the hobbyist paid for them last year.

Fail to see your point, other than a rant against LED's. Many aquarists have used fixtures for multiple years without issue. There is often no need to upgrade, and to blame manufacturers for offering new features seems petty at best. The same can be said (and has been to be honest) for protein skimmer offerings.

LED while it will grow corals slowly it will not grow corals at their natural rate which MH will do.

Plain BS - light is just one thing necessary for coral growth, and most LED fixtures provide plenty of light in the correct wavelengths. To claim otherwise is just plain silly.

LED manufactures need to work on getting systems to plug and grow state that T5 and Mh are at. But currently hobbyist let them make money on promises and then add T5 retrofits to try and prop up the expensive " they work great LED's that they purchased for 800 dollars a fixture that " finally" do the job.

You claim to have been in the hobby for some time, yet you consistently (over several threads) fail to appreciate the history of aquarium lighting, which has been pointed out by others. MH took quite a while to reach the current state, and is by no means the perfect "one size fits all" solution.

Manufacturers offer hybrid lighting to meet a perceived "need" in the hobby, and not because they are nefariously trying to "prop up" substandard fixtures. Also, if you were truly aware of current LED lighting, you would realize that many companies does provide schedule/ intensity templates to hobbyists to aid is the use of their fixtures.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really have tried to stay out of these threads which typically go nowhere fast, but every now and then I get the itch to respond and need to scratch it. Use what you like (they will all grow coral, simple as that, and they each have their pros and cons), and avoid the advice of those who resort to hyperbole (or worse, outright falsehoods) to further their argument.

Oh, and full disclosure - I have used MH, T5 and LED over the years (over 20 years with marine aquariums), and currently run all LED for my own personal reasons...

[Hentz]

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

I ran Halides, its not all "plug and play" success like many here describe. There are Lots of halide tanks that do awesome, and lots that do poor just like Leds.
Thing is with halides, there is a bulb, reflector, and an "on/off" switch button. It was really the best known method so users patiently worked with them and found ways the tank would do well. Leds have so many fixture options and concepts, and people these days want a reef magazine tank growth and color overnight. Many out there cant tweek the light to get what is missing with the corals. They give the fixtures maybe 6 months and then want to go back to what did best to their corals.
When I ran halides, was happy with the tank, but miserable with how hot the tank ran. You ALWAYS think about ways to end that heat nightmare. It does at somepoint become a deal breaker, and forces you to look at options.

Shading is a big problem, but that comes from crappy fixtures or the hobbyist not getting enough fixtures. I got shadowing with my reefbrite 250 watt halide ran previously also. My strawberry shortcake never looked as good as it does now under leds. My current fixture covers 36" WAY better than the halide+ kessils supplementing ever did. My Jedi mindtrick developed colors it never did with halides. The system has been the same, same salt, flow, fish.
With halides, you can bleach, discolor, and make corals look like crap if one doesnt know how to observe them and change when needed.
Also important to remember that lighting alone doesnt save the day if the tank isnt doing good.
Sanjay said his tank grows faster snd colors better now, with leds than it did with halides.
Most often thand we know failure is due to user error, IF the Leds used are of recent coverage technology/spectrum.

You act like you have colonies or something under LED's.. Pfft...

But great post. Metal Halides aren't always plug and play. As I mentioned above, there is a technique to finding their perfect point as well by raising and lowering the fixture, running it for shorter or longer periods.

As for heat, new ballasts or not, the heat from MH is still there. Everytime I look at corals at an LFS who turns their MH on, I feel the heat coming off the bulb. Corals do love MH, but the heat can be a definite issue.

[ReefCowboy]

Originally Posted by Hentz

You act like you have colonies or something under LED's.. Pfft...

But great post. Metal Halides aren't always plug and play. As I mentioned above, there is a technique to finding their perfect point as well by raising and lowering the fixture, running it for shorter or longer periods.

As for heat, new ballasts or not, the heat from MH is still there. Everytime I look at corals at an LFS who turns their MH on, I feel the heat coming off the bulb. Corals do love MH, but the heat can be a definite issue.

I have lots of colonies under leds. Some smaller ones grown faster and looking better now under them..

[ali1]

To answer your question, no. Few more tweaks can be made to LEDs to exceed MH, however They have come a long way. I use LEDs and see amazing growth. With that said, I will not look back

[biecacka]

Yes Sanjay is growing corals at record pace, but how many fixtures. Before he switched over on his 500 gallon, I think when he first experimented it was 3 radions on a 40 gallon. So 2100$ of lighting on a 40 gallon tank.
While I agree wholeheartedly that leds work, I think the big thing is we need more fixtures than we think and I believe Sanjay showed this on the 40 gallon. 24/24 area is about the absolute max I think most leds can run efficiently. I ran 4 rapidled kits on my tank for awhile and needed at least 2 more...

Corey

[Hentz]

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

I have lots of colonies under leds. Some smaller ones grown faster and looking better now under them..

I know man I'm just giving you a hard time. I follow your build! You've got some very nice colonies in there. Just goes to prove LED's are amazing.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by biecacka

Yes Sanjay is growing corals at record pace, but how many fixtures. Before he switched over on his 500 gallon, I think when he first experimented it was 3 radions on a 40 gallon. So 2100$ of lighting on a 40 gallon tank.
While I agree wholeheartedly that leds work, I think the big thing is we need more fixtures than we think and I believe Sanjay showed this on the 40 gallon. 24/24 area is about the absolute max I think most leds can run efficiently. I ran 4 rapidled kits on my tank for awhile and needed at least 2 more...

Corey

Yep, need more power regardless of tech.

I'm bumping up to 700watts now between LED and T5HOs. Of which there's only 160watts of T5s in that 700 watts. I'm not that far off now from what I would be if I ran MH. I could probably use another LED fixture and still be good.

I'd probably be running 3 250watt radions and 160 watts of T5s. That's 960watts. (But really more with the hqi ballasts )

But the heat radiates up from the fixture mostly and blown out by my canopy fan. I think someone mentioned something leading to that.