Ammonia Out of Control

[brianacooper11]

I've been battling ammonia in my 28 gallon nano for about three weeks, since I tore apart the tank to move to the basement. It increases roughly 0.5 ppm per day still.

I've done the things below. My latest thought is that doing a 90+% WC once it reaches 1 ppm, averaging one such water change every 1-2 days, is too much too often. Should I let ammonia-ium go higher?

Things I have done over past few weeks:
-switched to RODI from tap.
-stopped feeding fish.
-used countless bottles of Bio-Spira, Stability, and Prime, with little to no apparent effect
-then removed fish (all small juveniles, about 8 inch-lengths total)
--2 ocellaris clownfish
--1 regal demoiselle (damselfish)
--1 tailspot blenny
--1 watchman goby
--the fish all went to a bare 5 gallon tank. With no food, the increase in ammonia was very roughly 0.05 ppm per day (precise number difficult to gauge), while the main tank increases ~0.5 ppm per day. I don't think they are the problem.
-removed one dead sea cucumber four days ago. Disturbed substrate at that time.
-bought dedicated seawater mixing tank after finding that buckets leached amides, ammonia, and/or ammonium, biasing test results. Also verified Instant Ocean Sea Salt contributes 0 ppm Ammonia/-ium, tap water contributes 0 ppm also.

What's left in the tank:
- 2-4 inches aragonite live sand
- 30 lb or so live rock.
- water totaling 21-22 gallons, the rest of the volume (6-8 gallon) being sand and rock. Temperature 78 degrees, Salinity 32 ppt (1.024 SG)
- 1 pistol shrimp, 1 tiger conch, assorted snails and hermits, no coral.
- tank going through green algae phase. The tank and water quality actually look pretty attractive.

After all this, I'm running out of ideas and spirits. Is this what a 'crash' looks like? Ammonia just gets so out of control that it never cycles back?

[RobZilla04]

Hopefully if you did start a small cycle, it's nearing the end. Double check the expiration on your test kits and consider getting another to confirm your results. Not likely the problem if you're watching the level rise over a period of time, but still a possibility.

When you moved the tank did you disturb the heck outta the substrate and just reset the whole system? That's pretty much the only way to release all those trapped nutrients but I still don't get where the ammonia would come from.

[brianacooper11]

It was very disturbed, as in all sand went into a bucket, and the sand and live rock basically all got rebuilt. I had anticipated a new cycle, but this is 10 times what I dealt with the first cycle when I bought the tank maybe 2 months ago. I would consider the live rock minimally disturbed, other than being relocated. I had planned the move carefully, and the rocks were in the air only 45 minutes or so. The ceramic donuts below the mechanical filter weren't disturbed at all.

I'm thinking I'm being too picky about the actual level of ammonia, or there is something flat out weird with the sand bed being disturbed that is way beyond my understanding at this point. I DID disturb it four days ago when hunting for dead criters, but I thought the overall RATE of ammonia increase in the tank due to the disturbance would be going down by now. Other than a 4 ppm spike when the sea cucumber died, the rate has been surprisingly constant over the 3 weeks.

I have been using the API ammonia test kit, but I've been testing ammonia so much I'm already on my second set of bottles. lots of little things make me believe it is indicating the ppm rate correctly. I can describe all that if you like. The ultimate indicator is that my fish got weird around 1 ppm indicated consistently. The blenny developed splotches in his slime coat, and the rest of the fish lost their ADD, all about the same time. Nobody died with ammonia above 4 PPM, so these guys are really hardy, but they were not ok there, either.

[RobZilla04]

Originally Posted by brianacooper11

It was very disturbed, as in all sand went into a bucket, and the sand and live rock basically all got rebuilt. I had anticipated a new cycle, but this is 10 times what I dealt with the first cycle when I bought the tank maybe 2 months ago. I would consider the live rock minimally disturbed, other than being relocated. I had planned the move carefully, and the rocks were in the air only 45 minutes or so. The ceramic donuts below the mechanical filter weren't disturbed at all.

I'm thinking I'm being too picky about the actual level of ammonia, or there is something flat out weird with the sand bed being disturbed that is way beyond my understanding at this point. I DID disturb it four days ago when hunting for dead criters, but I thought the overall RATE of ammonia increase in the tank due to the disturbance would be going down by now. Other than a 4 ppm spike when the sea cucumber died, the rate has been surprisingly constant over the 3 weeks.

I have been using the API ammonia test kit, but I've been testing ammonia so much I'm already on my second set of bottles. lots of little things make me believe it is indicating the ppm rate correctly. I can describe all that if you like. The ultimate indicator is that my fish got weird around 1 ppm indicated consistently. The blenny developed splotches in his slime coat, and the rest of the fish lost their ADD, all about the same time. Nobody died with ammonia above 4 PPM, so these guys are really hardy, but they were not ok there, either.

So the less likely option of bad test kits is out. Disturbing the sand bed as you have done still shouldn't result in an ammonia problem as long as you've had. Even a dead animal wouldn't lead to an ammonia problem for three or more weeks. I'm just gonna go through some options so don't take offense to the ones that seem trivial and obvious.

Filter change?
You've done plenty and large water changes; RODI? TDS level?
Start vacuuming the sand bad with water changes
Rinse anything you put in the tank (tools, cups, etc.) w/ RODI water
Food source being the cause?

Just spitballing. Maybe some one else can point you in another direction. I wish you the best, I'll be following so let us know what you discover.

[brianacooper11]

No offense taken at all.

Jumping ahead of the list, I didn't know what TDS stood for until just now. I am also reading that the water quality of our source aquifer (Great Miami Buried Valley Aquifer) is a complicated subject. Evening reading for a while.

-Filter change: I changed the carbon filter about a week ago for the first time. The mechanical filter gets changed almost daily for various reasons. I do my best not to disturb the bio-filter ceramic bits.
-RODI/TDS: I have a RODI setup, but have no clue of TDS level. Researching that now.
- I am terrible about cleaning implements that go into the tank. I will improve.
- The nano tank hasn't been getting ANY food for about a week.

[RobZilla04]

Originally Posted by brianacooper11

No offense taken at all.

Jumping ahead of the list, I didn't know what TDS stood for until just now. I am also reading that the water quality of our source aquifer (Great Miami Buried Valley Aquifer) is a complicated subject. Evening reading for a while.

-Filter change: I changed the carbon filter about a week ago for the first time. The mechanical filter gets changed almost daily for various reasons. I do my best not to disturb the bio-filter ceramic bits.
-RODI/TDS: I have a RODI setup, but have no clue of TDS level. Researching that now.
- I am terrible about cleaning implements that go into the tank. I will improve.
- The nano tank hasn't been getting ANY food for about a week.

Well we're onto something. Get a TDS meter, $20 on Amazon. That'll let you know if you've exhausted the DI resin in the filter. Although the TDS meter won't tell you what mineral or othwise is in the water, it will let you know it's not 000 clean.

For filters on the tank are you using filter socks or the blue/white media filter pad. If you can try adding a ploy filter, also about $20 for three on Amazon. I've had great results with those reducing excess crap. If you're using socks those need to changed often, weekly at max.

[brianacooper11]

I think I just found the issue. Rob, you mentioned food. I went sniffing through an old hermit crab food canister, and found it almost empty. I barely used it for a few days early on. I think one of my kids dumped it into the tank some time ago. I had a slime mold for a little while prior to the move, and had some other unexpected growing things. I bought the sea cucumber to deal with that, but I think that between the 'food dump' and move, I've got a large charge of decaying nutrition in the sand.

Other evidence, including the circumstances of the dead sea cucumber (I think he got pinched in the live rock) support this.

I'm going to cry and then ponder disturbing the tank again...

[RobZilla04]

No worries, disturbing the rock or swapping the location wouldn't cause the problem you have. Consider vacuuming the sand during water changes. I do half every water change. Keeps my sand white and reduces the chance of potential disastrous gasses developing.

[Onebadclown]

this might sound dumb and no offense just personal experience have u cleaned the tanks outside with windex or anything like that ?


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[brianacooper11]

no offense taken. I just use fresh water on the outside. Usually it's just dried salt.

I'm 99% sure it's the old crab food. It mixed well with the detrius on the sand, and I wasn't looking for it. It seems to fit with a longer term, steady source of ammonia. All my snails and the conch like to cruise under the sand, and I think that is what keeps the readings going.

[Onebadclown]

if its still there deff remove it if u can i hope it works out for u and best of luck lmk what happens