Herbie drain with a DC return pump question

steallife904 · 03/08/2017, 09:44 AM

I currently have 2 durso standpipe drains that ran fine for close to 2 years. Well ever since I installed my advanced controller on my 2 gyre xf150s the drains have become super loud. gurgling and bubble sounds. My overflow is in the middle of the tank and now the flow pushes more water toward the overflow, I am sure that's what has caused this to happen.... Anyway everything I have done to silent them now has failed and think I need to pull the dursos out and try a herbie. My question is, since I can control the flow of water into my tank because I have a DC controllable return pump, do I need to have a valve on the drain line?

To build the herbie I would just pull the 2 dursos and make 1 the main drain and the other an emergency by way of the height of the new pipes.... but I always see the drain having a valve to adjust the flow into the sump which I currently do not have. Would it be needed if I can control the return pump flow????

Oeste · 03/08/2017, 09:55 AM

Good question. I would assume its harder to dial in through a pump vs. drain. I have a valve on my drain line, set it and forget it.

paal · 03/08/2017, 10:27 AM

I am running a controllable return pump and have a valve on the main drain (siphon).

I ended up not really using the valve; siphon is fine-tuned by the return pump alone. Valve is completely open. You should be fine as long as you know your return pump on max setting is capable of providing more flow than your full siphon can handle and that you are comfortable with that amount of flow

this is me · 03/08/2017, 10:42 AM

I'm using Bean animal with a Vetra L1 on mine. I have all the valve on all 3 drains. I use the L1 to control the turnover rate and use the valve on the drain to control the water height in the overflow box for quiet operation.

steallife904 · 03/08/2017, 10:54 AM

hmmmm, ya I can see needing the valve to control the water height in the overflow box. Guess I would have to cut the pipes and add in a valve. I guess I could just build a standpipe cheap and stick in there now to see what happens. If it doesn't work right then I know I need a valve????

How far down under the waterline do you guys have the siphone drain? I see 6in mentioned. Is that right?

d0ughb0y · 03/08/2017, 11:06 AM

If you have a durso right now, and if your durso fittings are not glued, you can just detach the fittings so you only have the pipe left and let it run full siphon by controlling your dc pump starting from the lowest setting and increasing one step at a time until you get full siphon (water in overflow will be 1-3" above the pipe opening). At that point, see if the overflow water level is maintained or slowly going up. Even if it is going up, you can have the limit set by the second pipe with a higher opening at the highest point you want the water level to be in the overflow. If you are able to control the water level using only the dc pump control, then you won't need a valve on the main drain. otherwise, you will need one to get a more fine grained control on the drain so the return flow matches or is just very slightly higher than the drain flow.

just curious, if you stop the gyre, does the durso become quiet again? Is the sound coming from the durso in the overflow or in the sump?

steallife904 · 03/08/2017, 12:47 PM

yes if I stop the gyre it will go away. the gyres push water at each other which is pushing in more water in the overflow. Before I only ran 1 gyre at a time (on 1 hour then off and other came on) so the 2 where never running at the same time. Now the advanced controller has both running but changes the power at different times and etc... more random flow but this is now causing the waves to crash in the middle of the tank where the overflow is.
sound seems to be coming from durso in overflow more than the sump.

d0ughb0y · 03/08/2017, 01:19 PM

is your durso a plain durso or a stockman or hofer?
anyway, check if the water level is going below the durso opening and then coming back up. That is usually the cause of noise in the overflow box. if you see that happening, then it is not getting enough air into the pipe, probably due to momentary increase in water volume. if your durso cap hole is 1/4", you can insert a hose that goes down to just below the point where water enters the pipe.

anyway, I don't think it is possible to get durso 100% quiet due to use of air, so herbie might be the way to go for you since you already have 2 standpipes.

steallife904 · 03/08/2017, 02:28 PM

its a plain durso (x2), I have some airline so will stick some in and see what happens. If not I will try herbie.

03/08/2017, 09:44 AM	#1
steallife904 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 944	Herbie drain with a DC return pump question I currently have 2 durso standpipe drains that ran fine for close to 2 years. Well ever since I installed my advanced controller on my 2 gyre xf150s the drains have become super loud. gurgling and bubble sounds. My overflow is in the middle of the tank and now the flow pushes more water toward the overflow, I am sure that's what has caused this to happen.... Anyway everything I have done to silent them now has failed and think I need to pull the dursos out and try a herbie. My question is, since I can control the flow of water into my tank because I have a DC controllable return pump, do I need to have a valve on the drain line? To build the herbie I would just pull the 2 dursos and make 1 the main drain and the other an emergency by way of the height of the new pipes.... but I always see the drain having a valve to adjust the flow into the sump which I currently do not have. Would it be needed if I can control the return pump flow????

03/08/2017, 10:42 AM	#4
this is me Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,074	I'm using Bean animal with a Vetra L1 on mine. I have all the valve on all 3 drains. I use the L1 to control the turnover rate and use the valve on the drain to control the water height in the overflow box for quiet operation. __________________ Nick When a man talks dirty to a woman, it's sexual harassment. When a woman talks dirty to a man, it's $4.95 per minute. Current Tank Info: Miracle 360 gallons

03/08/2017, 09:55 AM	#2
Oeste Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 91	Good question. I would assume its harder to dial in through a pump vs. drain. I have a valve on my drain line, set it and forget it.

03/08/2017, 10:27 AM	#3
paal Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 368	I am running a controllable return pump and have a valve on the main drain (siphon). I ended up not really using the valve; siphon is fine-tuned by the return pump alone. Valve is completely open. You should be fine as long as you know your return pump on max setting is capable of providing more flow than your full siphon can handle and that you are comfortable with that amount of flow

03/08/2017, 10:54 AM	#5
steallife904 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 944	hmmmm, ya I can see needing the valve to control the water height in the overflow box. Guess I would have to cut the pipes and add in a valve. I guess I could just build a standpipe cheap and stick in there now to see what happens. If it doesn't work right then I know I need a valve???? How far down under the waterline do you guys have the siphone drain? I see 6in mentioned. Is that right?

03/08/2017, 11:06 AM	#6
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	If you have a durso right now, and if your durso fittings are not glued, you can just detach the fittings so you only have the pipe left and let it run full siphon by controlling your dc pump starting from the lowest setting and increasing one step at a time until you get full siphon (water in overflow will be 1-3" above the pipe opening). At that point, see if the overflow water level is maintained or slowly going up. Even if it is going up, you can have the limit set by the second pipe with a higher opening at the highest point you want the water level to be in the overflow. If you are able to control the water level using only the dc pump control, then you won't need a valve on the main drain. otherwise, you will need one to get a more fine grained control on the drain so the return flow matches or is just very slightly higher than the drain flow. just curious, if you stop the gyre, does the durso become quiet again? Is the sound coming from the durso in the overflow or in the sump?

03/08/2017, 12:47 PM	#7
steallife904 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 944	yes if I stop the gyre it will go away. the gyres push water at each other which is pushing in more water in the overflow. Before I only ran 1 gyre at a time (on 1 hour then off and other came on) so the 2 where never running at the same time. Now the advanced controller has both running but changes the power at different times and etc... more random flow but this is now causing the waves to crash in the middle of the tank where the overflow is. sound seems to be coming from durso in overflow more than the sump.

03/08/2017, 01:19 PM	#8
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	is your durso a plain durso or a stockman or hofer? anyway, check if the water level is going below the durso opening and then coming back up. That is usually the cause of noise in the overflow box. if you see that happening, then it is not getting enough air into the pipe, probably due to momentary increase in water volume. if your durso cap hole is 1/4", you can insert a hose that goes down to just below the point where water enters the pipe. anyway, I don't think it is possible to get durso 100% quiet due to use of air, so herbie might be the way to go for you since you already have 2 standpipes.

03/08/2017, 02:28 PM	#9
steallife904 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 944	its a plain durso (x2), I have some airline so will stick some in and see what happens. If not I will try herbie.