All Of The Sudden All Fish Died!!!

[Beans2000]

Hey guys, I always read ReefCentral forums for help answering my questions but this is my first time posting!

Last night I noticed my 2 Chromis (the only fish I have) were acting very strange. One was staying in the corner of my tank and the other one swam a little more but stayed close by. The chromis that seemed in better shape are a small bit yesterday, the other didn't eat at all. Well, woke up today the one was dead which I assumed was going to happen, and the other I thought was dead too but was still alive, just not swimming at all.

40b
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Ph-8.1

That's all I tested for this morning, I have no idea what killed them! I have no skimmer, the only filtration I have is a filter sponge and sock in the sump, with chaeto and 50lbs live rock. The tank has been cycled for a month or so and doing really good until now. All coral and inverts are doing great (5 hermits, cerith snails, 2 nassarius) the only thing I can think of is a couple days ago my zoanthid frags released some mucus after I took them off the plug. I did a 15% water change last night and everything was happy except the chromis.

Please Help, I have a picture of the fish last night and this morning after he was dead if that helps I can post them.

[fishchef]

Hard to say. With such a new system you could of had a mini cycle. Chromis tend to fight and beat up each other. Just watch your ammonia and nitrite. I'd put a skimmer on the system for sure. Keep your sponge clean.

[Sk8r]

You need tests for alkalinity at very least. There are various possibilities: a skimmer does aerate a lot.
You might have a stray voltage issue. Check your heater for seal cracks and signs of damage---unplug first.
You might have had a scented candle, room spray, or carpet cleaner in the area.
The most common mass death causes are low oxygen, electric shock, or contamination. THere is a variety of sea mat (palythoa toxica, qv via google) which can be very dangerous, but its chemistry mostly attacks us, SFAIK, not the fish.

[A sea K]

To Reef Central and sorry for the loss.
Chromis are not known to be very durable during acclimation and new tanks don't offer the best environment which only adds to the problem, it stinks for sure but is not totally unexpected.

[Beans2000]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! Just got home for lunch, the other one was gone so I quickly took him out. I don't think oxygen is the issue I have a lot of surface agitational the display and moving water in the sump. No cleaners near the tank either. Heater looks good aswell I just checked it out. I just don't want the same fate for the next fish I put in.

[Beans2000]

I won't be able to get a skimmer until about 2-3 weeks for my paycheck. Until then what fish would you guys recommend I put in there or just go no fish? I'm afraid my beneficial bacteria will decline and crabs starve.

[A sea K]

Lots of people run skimmerless so no need to rush and your bacteria will be fine for quite awhile without fish.
Do you have any kind of a proposed stocking list for your tank?

[Beans2000]

Originally Posted by A sea K

Lots of people run skimmerless so no need to rush and your bacteria will be fine for quite awhile without fish.
Do you have any kind of a proposed stocking list for your tank?

Okay good! Somewhat, it's not set in stone but fish I definitely do want is:
2 Clowns (pair)
Six Line Wrasse
Lawnmower blenny or Watchman Goby
Kole Tang (small)

Would it be a bad idea to get a fish now, how long should I wait?

[Beans2000]

Also an Update:
My hermits seem to be alive but don't seem as active as usual. Maybe it's just because there aren't any fish (pooping?) frogspawn and zoanthid are the most open I've ever seen them and look stunning! Zoas probably just cocky I think it's their fault!

[A sea K]

I assume this is for a 40gal breeder?
If yes then the clowns are fine.
I personally would not do a 6-line, they are very attractive fish but have a bad reputation of being overly aggressive especially in a smaller tank, a possum or pink streaked wrasse will do well if you keep them with other passive tank mates and are well suited to smaller tanks or another nod would be for a one of the flasher or small fairy wrasse.
The lawnmower is also fine but again I would chose something smaller and my favorite is a tailspot blenny. You can also go with most any of the bottom dwelling gobies.
The kole tang I'm afraid is a no go in that size tank, not only that but he will not play nice with any of the algae blennies.
As a suggestion and a fairly hardy starter fish try one of the firefish gobies, IMO no small tank is complete without one. Just make sure you have a mesh top of some sort.

Has the tank been cycling for a month or has the cycle been completed for a month? I'm assuming the later as it usually takes longer than a month to fully cycle a tank. If the tank has been running for a month after the cycle has been completed I would say your fine to try again and a firefish would make a great 1st addition, if the cycle has just completed then I would wait a couple more weeks before going ahead with any more additions.

[Beans2000]

Thanks for the quick response, and the information on fish section! Yes the tank is a 40 breeder with a 20 sump.It has been cycled for a month, it's been running a little over 2 months. I'll go to the LFS tomorrow and pick up a fire goby! I wouldn't think it would be a mini cycle because wouldn't that kill some inverts at least one before it even touched a damsel? I also noticed some tiny white dots almost looked like specs of dust size dots on the first one to die's tail fin since Sunday. I never saw it in the other but he never seemed bothered and it didn't show up in pictures using flash.

[GimpyFin]

Were there any noticeable markings or discolorations on the fish when you found them dead?

[Beans2000]

Yes! I don't know how to upload a picture though I did take a picture of it.

[Beans2000]

[IMG]http://*******.com/r/2r29c2f/9[/IMG]

[Beans2000]

[IMG]http://i67.*******.com/2r29c2f.jpg[/IMG]

[Beans2000]

Sorry idk why this isn't working. It had red marks all over it looking like the scales were almost pulled out

[GimpyFin]

Could be uronema. Seems to be fairly common with chromis as well. It can look like pitted marks on the body or bloody like patches with the scales raised.

[Beans2000]

After doing some research I've determined that GimpyFin it most likely was Uronema. The markings on the fish and the way they behaved matchied it perfectly. Now my question is, without any fish in the system now would a new addition get Uronema and if so how would I prevent them from getting it? I think one of the chromis already had it when I bought it because I noticed the red line and eventually they all did.

[Sk8r]

Don't get any new fish yet. Google uronema marinum treatment. You cannot administer some of these treatments in your tank without impacting your bacteria. if this is what it is, and it's in the DT, you have some choices to make.

[GimpyFin]

I've never actually had to treat it myself, but I believe formalin is one of the treatments. If you search in the fish disease section of the forum, I'm almost positive there is a post/sticky regarding this.

[Beans2000]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Don't get any new fish yet. Google uronema marinum treatment. You cannot administer some of these treatments in your tank without impacting your bacteria. if this is what it is, and it's in the DT, you have some choices to make.

What are my options? I really don't want to have to do another cycle!

[A sea K]

Originally Posted by Beans2000

I also noticed some tiny white dots almost looked like specs of dust size dots on the first one to die's tail fin since Sunday. I never saw it in the other but he never seemed bothered and it didn't show up in pictures using flash.

Originally Posted by Beans2000

Sorry idk why this isn't working. It had red marks all over it looking like the scales were almost pulled out

Originally Posted by Beans2000

After doing some research I've determined that GimpyFin it most likely was Uronema. The markings on the fish and the way they behaved matchied it perfectly. Now my question is, without any fish in the system now would a new addition get Uronema and if so how would I prevent them from getting it? I think one of the chromis already had it when I bought it because I noticed the red line and eventually they all did.

Originally Posted by Beans2000

What are my options? I really don't want to have to do another cycle!

Whoa! Had to leave abruptly last night and missed all this. Your first indication of an underlying issue points to marine ich and then things really go down hill from there. If you do have uronema in the DT then I'm afraid there is no easy way to avoid a full re-start.

[Sk8r]

I have made a recommendation on your post in the Fish Disease forum. There is a treatment that may help the tank. It is prescription, and you will have to consult a veterinarian.

[Beans2000]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

I have made a recommendation on your post in the Fish Disease forum. There is a treatment that may help the tank. It is prescription, and you will have to consult a veterinarian.

How would I go about getting this prescription? I will do whatever it takes to avoid a full restart, my corals are doing amazing and budding like crazy and I already have some nice coralline growing! This tank is literally doing perfect by the books, if it weren't for that damn LFS!!

[Beans2000]

Originally Posted by A sea K

Whoa! Had to leave abruptly last night and missed all this. Your first indication of an underlying issue points to marine ich and then things really go down hill from there. If you do have uronema in the DT then I'm afraid there is no easy way to avoid a full re-start.

At this point I really want it to be Ich, I'm sure nobody's ever said that. But I'm afraid that it is more than likely Uronema especially since they were Chromis.