My delima

bcb577 · 05/11/2017, 11:10 PM

I've been in the hobby for about a year and a half now and enjoy it a lot. I have a 10 gallon nano which has been up a year and a half now. I do a 20% water change every 10 days give or take a day or 2. I have a mixed reef,two small colonies of zoas, 1 colony of xenia,5 heads of candy cane,1 head of Duncan,2 heads of branching hammer.1 clown fish,1 ywg,1 peppermint shrimp.2 Mexican turbines and some ceriths. after about 7 days after a water change,a lot of the corals fail to open all the way,but then ill do a water change they all pop back out again. I guess my question is .....is this an issue of bad nutrient build up,or are my corals depleting the calcium and such as the week goes by? And then I do the water change those depleted nutrients are replaced thus corals look great. Is it time to start dosing? My plan this week is to test the water around the 7 day mark when things are looking bad,and then test again after the water change. I'm still learning so please go easy on me, lol. Any help or suggestions are appreciated. I have an empty 46 gallon bow front that's sitting empty and begging me to build it! Thanks!

farfromsea · 05/11/2017, 11:59 PM

Only way to know is with a water test

Nitrates phosphates
Magnesium calcium alk

I'm sure you're on the right track though thinking it is a water quality issue but have to test to be sure!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ron Reefman · 05/12/2017, 04:12 AM

What farfromsea said... start testing. Alk, Ca, Mg, nitrate. Maybe phosphate if you have algae issues.

My guess is that it's more likely an alk issue than a Ca issue. Corals just stop growing with low Ca. They struggle with low alk and die if it gets low enough.

But you didn't give us ANY water parameters???

sde1500 · 05/12/2017, 07:08 AM

Yea, if you are keeping corals you obviously need to know your water parameters. You say you are still learning, but over a year in that should be known by know. Especially if you've spent more than 5 minutes looking around on here.

bcb577 · 05/13/2017, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromsea

Only way to know is with a water test

Nitrates phosphates
Magnesium calcium alk

I'm sure you're on the right track though thinking it is a water quality issue but have to test to be sure!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the input I do appreciate it.

bcb577 · 05/13/2017, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sde1500

Yea, if you are keeping corals you obviously need to know your water parameters. You say you are still learning, but over a year in that should be known by know. Especially if you've spent more than 5 minutes looking around on here.

Um I do keep parameters ,and I've spent tons of time on here,and starting with a ten gallon for two years with mostly success I'd consider myself quite successful at it.but constructive input is what I was looking for,anyone who's been giving me good nonjudgmental advise I appreciate that what I don't appreciate is condescending negativity,ill leave it up to you which type of advise you were . TRYING to give,thanks

bcb577 · 05/13/2017, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sde1500

Yea, if you are keeping corals you obviously need to know your water parameters. You say you are still learning, but over a year in that should be known by know. Especially if you've spent more than 5 minutes looking around on here.

Oh yeah if you've spending 5 minutes in school you should know how to proofread before you send,just some constructive criticism for you..lol....there's always that one that answered my post with a superiority complex!

rtparty · 05/13/2017, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcb577

Oh yeah if you've spending 5 minutes in school you should know how to proofread before you send,just some constructive criticism for you..lol....there's always that one that answered my post with a superiority complex!

It's bad karma to call out someone's grammar when you can't even check your own first.

lilphil26 · 05/13/2017, 08:52 PM

I would +1 on what Ron said. I would keep track of alk. I measure it daily if I'm concerned about it. I know a lot of guys track alk daily just to be safe.

You mentioned doing a water test after 7 days. Why wait so long for it to go downhill. Do it regularly so it doesn't get out of control. As others have mentioned, can you post some water parameters to give us a idea? One thing to remember is that changing 20 percent of the water leaves 80 percent of the old crappy water remaining in your tank.

sde1500 · 05/14/2017, 07:14 AM

So let's see the numbers you keep then. Goal with water changes is to reduce waste buildup and replenish what the corals have used. If water changes aren't keeping up then dosing is needed. Daily dosing also helps prevent large swings and keep things stable.

bcb577 · 05/14/2017, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtparty

It's bad karma to call out someone's grammar when you can't even check your own first.

Must be his buddy

rtparty · 05/14/2017, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcb577

Must be his buddy

Riiiight...

But no. I just figure if you're going to call someone out on grammar, that your grammar would be better than the person you call out.

He simply stated that if you've been doing this for over a year, water parameters should be second nature at this point. Pretty fair statement in my opinion.

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtparty

Riiiight...

But no. I just figure if you're going to call someone out on grammar, that your grammar would be better than the person you call out.

He simply stated that if you've been doing this for over a year, water parameters should be second nature at this point. Pretty fair statement in my opinion.

sometimes it isn't what someone says but how they say it

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcb577

sometimes it isn't what someone says but how they say it

I don't see much wrong with my grammar

rtparty · 05/15/2017, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcb577

I don't see much wrong with my grammar

Well, it's not worth it.

Capitalization and punctuation are missing on both. If we want to get technical. In the end, it doesn't matter though. Tone doesn't come through in text.

Hope you get the issues resolved. Tank issues suck to deal with.

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtparty

Riiiight...

But no. I just figure if you're going to call someone out on grammar, that your grammar would be better than the person you call out.

He simply stated that if you've been doing this for over a year, water parameters should be second nature at this point. Pretty fair statement in my opinion.

Ok so show me in my statement where I say I don't do parameters?all I stated was I was going to start checking them earlier,I never said nor meant to imply I don't do parameters.look I'm not on here to argue but I take offense to the superiority complex some have.He and others didn't understand my post I guess,ill be more clear in the outer,my apologises,if my post was confusing.

rtparty · 05/15/2017, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcb577

Ok so show me in my statement where I say I don't do parameters?all I stated was I was going to start checking them earlier,I never said nor meant to imply I don't do parameters.look I'm not on here to argue but I take offense to the superiority complex some have.He and others didn't understand my post I guess,ill be more clear in the outer,my apologises,if my post was confusing.

You said you were going to test after 7 days to see where your parameters are at. That implies you haven't tested before because you should have a general idea where things are already.

Dosing is inevitable for almost all of us. If your corals are growing, they are soaking up alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and other elements. If your water change barely replaces enough of those elements, your parameters will always be low and eventually a water change won't keep up. Therefore, testing and dosing are a must. To get a true idea of what you need to dose, you need to test every day for 4-5 days. That way you find the amount your corals are using.

For example, if day one your calcium is 450, day 2 it goes to 440, day 3 goes to 430 and so on, you will see a pattern. It won't be that linear but that's just an easy example. It could be on day you start at 450 and on day 5 you're at 430. With the first example you know you need to replace 10 each day. So you find a calculator online, put in all your readings and it will tell you how much to dose. Start lower and then test a few hours later to see how much it raised that specific element.

Once you've done all that, you're on way to dosing

sde1500 · 05/15/2017, 11:08 AM

Well we could start with the title lol.

You took offense, way too much really, to the suggestion you don't know parameters. But how can people help tell you it is time to start dosing if you don't provide your nutrient uptake? There could be any number of reasons that your corals look bad after a week. High nitrates, low calcium, low magnesium, low alkalinity. Your specific question seems to have been:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcb577

after about 7 days after a water change,a lot of the corals fail to open all the way,but then ill do a water change they all pop back out again. I guess my question is .....is this an issue of bad nutrient build up,or are my corals depleting the calcium and such as the week goes by? ....Is it time to start dosing?

But we can't answer it if you don't provide data.

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sde1500

Well we could start with the title lol.

You took offense, way too much really, to the suggestion you don't know parameters. But how can people help tell you it is time to start dosing if you don't provide your nutrient uptake? There could be any number of reasons that your corals look bad after a week. High nitrates, low calcium, low magnesium, low alkalinity. Your specific question seems to have been:

But we can't answer it if you don't provide data.

I understand just call it a bad day,lol.my parameters I was checking wasn't thorough enough.I was told by someone on this site when I was first starting to check parameters after a water change which isn't bad advice,when I have been checking them,I usually do it then.he stated that since I did a 20% change every week that my salt mix should be sufficient enough so I wouldn't need to dose,and everything has always looked great until recently.I've noticed that towards the end of the week my corals look kinda closed.my guess here is that over the last cpl of years I didn't start with many corals and those I did keep were softies.no I have a cpl lps.My plan is to start testing parameters more than once a week and keeping a chart.it's been a few days since my last change so ill test tonight and post the results.Again my apologies for over reacting.and also apologize for how I've written this post,I'm trying to hurry cuz I have to leave,ill post results of the test later,thank you!

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtparty

You said you were going to test after 7 days to see where your parameters are at. That implies you haven't tested before because you should have a general idea where things are already.

Dosing is inevitable for almost all of us. If your corals are growing, they are soaking up alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and other elements. If your water change barely replaces enough of those elements, your parameters will always be low and eventually a water change won't keep up. Therefore, testing and dosing are a must. To get a true idea of what you need to dose, you need to test every day for 4-5 days. That way you find the amount your corals are using.

For example, if day one your calcium is 450, day 2 it goes to 440, day 3 goes to 430 and so on, you will see a pattern. It won't be that linear but that's just an easy example. It could be on day you start at 450 and on day 5 you're at 430. With the first example you know you need to replace 10 each day. So you find a calculator online, put in all your readings and it will tell you how much to dose. Start lower and then test a few hours later to see how much it raised that specific element.

Once you've done all that, you're on way to dosing

thank you very much,that actually made sense,I'm sure after almost two years my water changes are not good enough.Thanks for the advice!

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 11:32 AM

Ok all,I now understand,I have some kent marine nano reef part a and b that I can dose if needed,now I'm going to start testing parameters every day for several days to get an idea of how fast my tank is using nutrients.I will not take things as personal,and I thank all who have patiently given advice,thanks.

Sk8r · 05/15/2017, 11:56 AM

I'm not sure if you've mentioned above, but you ARE keeping a mixed reef. Softies don't have tentacles, but they 'spit' into the water to discourage competition for the space, and if their own spit comes back at them even THEY get unhappy---carbon in the system can uptake this biological warfare and might sweeten dispositions. Sounds as if your water changes might be relieving the problem, but then somebody spits and it all starts again...

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtparty

Well, it's not worth it.

Capitalization and punctuation are missing on both. If we want to get technical. In the end, it doesn't matter though. Tone doesn't come through in text.

Hope you get the issues resolved. Tank issues suck to deal with.

I agree its impossible to detect tone,but my since apologies to any and all I offended.In the outer ill not over react.thanks all who helped me,check I'm on here to make friends not enemies,my wife pointed out that I did over react!

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

I'm not sure if you've mentioned above, but you ARE keeping a mixed reef. Softies don't have tentacles, but they 'spit' into the water to discourage competition for the space, and if their own spit comes back at them even THEY get unhappy---carbon in the system can uptake this biological warfare and might sweeten dispositions. Sounds as if your water changes might be relieving the problem, but then somebody spits and it all starts again...

I didn't think about that,good point may have to rearrange some corals!

bcb577 · 05/15/2017, 07:06 PM

Ok anyone interested in my parameters here's what's going on.to make a long story short I did end up dosing kent marine nano part a and b. Phosphate 0. Nitrate 0. Dkh 11. Calcium 440. Magnesium 1350.I've had extremely slow growth on my softies,so many have pointed out before that my tank may be over filtered,I have of course a 10 gallon tank with a mainland penguin biowheel for up to 30 gallons with carbon filter pad and chemipure elite also in the filter.I have a coralife protein skimmer which actually pulls out some good nasty looking skimmate. I'm guessing that since I should have been dosing for God knows how long,and since softies require some phosphate to grow I decided to temporarily take out the skimmer being carefully to make sure I measure parameters everyday for a month th as I want to know EXACTLY how my tank is reacting.

05/11/2017, 11:10 PM	#1
bcb577 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Whitehall ohio Posts: 219	My delima I've been in the hobby for about a year and a half now and enjoy it a lot. I have a 10 gallon nano which has been up a year and a half now. I do a 20% water change every 10 days give or take a day or 2. I have a mixed reef,two small colonies of zoas, 1 colony of xenia,5 heads of candy cane,1 head of Duncan,2 heads of branching hammer.1 clown fish,1 ywg,1 peppermint shrimp.2 Mexican turbines and some ceriths. after about 7 days after a water change,a lot of the corals fail to open all the way,but then ill do a water change they all pop back out again. I guess my question is .....is this an issue of bad nutrient build up,or are my corals depleting the calcium and such as the week goes by? And then I do the water change those depleted nutrients are replaced thus corals look great. Is it time to start dosing? My plan this week is to test the water around the 7 day mark when things are looking bad,and then test again after the water change. I'm still learning so please go easy on me, lol. Any help or suggestions are appreciated. I have an empty 46 gallon bow front that's sitting empty and begging me to build it! Thanks!

05/12/2017, 04:12 AM	#3
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	What farfromsea said... start testing. Alk, Ca, Mg, nitrate. Maybe phosphate if you have algae issues. My guess is that it's more likely an alk issue than a Ca issue. Corals just stop growing with low Ca. They struggle with low alk and die if it gets low enough. But you didn't give us ANY water parameters??? __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

05/12/2017, 07:08 AM	#4
sde1500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glocester, RI Posts: 3,336	Yea, if you are keeping corals you obviously need to know your water parameters. You say you are still learning, but over a year in that should be known by know. Especially if you've spent more than 5 minutes looking around on here. __________________ My build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548422 Current Tank Info: 65 gallon mixed reef, Eshopps sump and HOB overflow, RO-110int skimmer, Reefbreeder 32" photons V1.

05/14/2017, 07:14 AM	#10
sde1500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glocester, RI Posts: 3,336	My delima So let's see the numbers you keep then. Goal with water changes is to reduce waste buildup and replenish what the corals have used. If water changes aren't keeping up then dosing is needed. Daily dosing also helps prevent large swings and keep things stable. __________________ My build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548422 Current Tank Info: 65 gallon mixed reef, Eshopps sump and HOB overflow, RO-110int skimmer, Reefbreeder 32" photons V1.

05/15/2017, 11:56 AM	#22
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I'm not sure if you've mentioned above, but you ARE keeping a mixed reef. Softies don't have tentacles, but they 'spit' into the water to discourage competition for the space, and if their own spit comes back at them even THEY get unhappy---carbon in the system can uptake this biological warfare and might sweeten dispositions. Sounds as if your water changes might be relieving the problem, but then somebody spits and it all starts again... __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/11/2017, 11:59 PM	#2
farfromsea Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 549	Only way to know is with a water test Nitrates phosphates Magnesium calcium alk I'm sure you're on the right track though thinking it is a water quality issue but have to test to be sure! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05/13/2017, 08:52 PM	#9
lilphil26 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 99	I would +1 on what Ron said. I would keep track of alk. I measure it daily if I'm concerned about it. I know a lot of guys track alk daily just to be safe. You mentioned doing a water test after 7 days. Why wait so long for it to go downhill. Do it regularly so it doesn't get out of control. As others have mentioned, can you post some water parameters to give us a idea? One thing to remember is that changing 20 percent of the water leaves 80 percent of the old crappy water remaining in your tank.

05/15/2017, 11:32 AM	#21
bcb577 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Whitehall ohio Posts: 219	Ok all,I now understand,I have some kent marine nano reef part a and b that I can dose if needed,now I'm going to start testing parameters every day for several days to get an idea of how fast my tank is using nutrients.I will not take things as personal,and I thank all who have patiently given advice,thanks.

05/15/2017, 07:06 PM	#25
bcb577 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Whitehall ohio Posts: 219	Ok anyone interested in my parameters here's what's going on.to make a long story short I did end up dosing kent marine nano part a and b. Phosphate 0. Nitrate 0. Dkh 11. Calcium 440. Magnesium 1350.I've had extremely slow growth on my softies,so many have pointed out before that my tank may be over filtered,I have of course a 10 gallon tank with a mainland penguin biowheel for up to 30 gallons with carbon filter pad and chemipure elite also in the filter.I have a coralife protein skimmer which actually pulls out some good nasty looking skimmate. I'm guessing that since I should have been dosing for God knows how long,and since softies require some phosphate to grow I decided to temporarily take out the skimmer being carefully to make sure I measure parameters everyday for a month th as I want to know EXACTLY how my tank is reacting.