Basement sump plumbing questions

[keh9qd]

Hi guys, I have some plumbing questions for my basement sump setup.

My tank is a deep blue 80 48x24x16 with 1 corner overflow. The overflow has 2 holes drilled (3/4" return and 1" drain).

My sump size is undecided. Im going to make one out of a standard glass aquarium (40-75g)

I will be plumbing to the basement which will be a 10 foot drop from the tank to the sump.

Here are my questions based on my setup:

1. (For the drain) Ive plumbed many tanks, but never to the basement. Im concerned with how rapid the water will fall to the sump (10 foot drop). Are there any special plumbing techniques or bends needs to slow the drain water down? Along with this question will the standard airline tub air vent be a sufficient hole size to vent the air from the drain on the durso still?

2. (For the drain). I plan on going from the one inch bulk head immediately to a larger inner diameter pvc pipe such as 1.5" or 2". Am I on the right track here?

3. (For the return) the bulkhead is 3/4" so I plan to simply run a 3/4" pvc or soft tube from the return pump to the tank as I normally would on a regular undertank sump setup, is this correct? I realize this question will also depend on the pump i choose.

4. (For the return) i own a mag 12 already, Ive read that these arent a good option for my 10' head loss. I am on a bit of a budget and really cant fork out hundreds of dollars on a pump. What is the best bang for the buck I can buy for a return pump? Id prefer in sump pumps.

[dt204]

Hey, sounds like a great plan. I have a basement sump myself. Mine drops about 10 ft as well. It also has about a 10 ft horizontal run though. I don't think slowing the water down is a concern, as it will only go as fast as it is returned back up. I also only have 2 holes in my overflow and used a Durso. No airline, just the right sized hole on the cap. It is silent.

2. That is exactly what mine does. I haven't had problems.

3. I had a 3/4, and upped it to 1 inch. Was happy I did.

4. I use a dc jebao12000. I wish I would have splurged on a Vectra, but am happy with it. Full control. Speed. Feed mode. I don't even have mine on full. Bang for buck is a tough decision.

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[ca1ore]

I would strongly suggest a dual drain herbie configuration. Single drain durso is so 2005 . No need to 'slow' the water - not sure how you'd do it without an intergalactic gravity modulating device. Try the Mag12, they generally handle head pressure pretty well.

[dt204]

Ya, I agree. A Herbie or bean animal would be safer. And if you have the mag12 already, might as well try it first and see what kind of flow you get! You can use a head flow calculator online to ballpark gph as well

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[keh9qd]

Im on it, thanks for the input!

[Lsufan]

I agree with calore about running multiple drains & if u aren't comfortable drilling anymore holes then run the return over the back of the tank. If u use both as drains then u can run a herbie so U can have a syphon drain.

With the drop to the basement it will benefit by having the valve for the syphon close to the sump. With the valve close to the sump u will get the same pressure going into the sump as if the sump was under the tank.

If u plan on using the mag pump then although I don't have personal experience, I have read numerous post by uncle that says u need 1.5" plumbing on a mag pump or it kills the flow.

If u are comfortable drilling the tank then I would definitely drill the tank so u don't have a 3/4" drain but I understand that if someone has never drilled a tank then they would be reluctant on there new DT.

One of these days the tank manufacturers will quit making these tanks with only two holes being 3/4" & 1" & the small overflow boxes & calling them reef ready tanks. That isn't a reef ready tank. At the very least they should eighther drill 3 holes for 1" bulkheads or for 1.5" bulkheads, depending on the size of the tank.

[keh9qd]

Originally Posted by Lsufan

I agree with calore about running multiple drains & if u aren't comfortable drilling anymore holes then run the return over the back of the tank. If u use both as drains then u can run a herbie so U can have a syphon drain.

Ive drilled glass tanks before so Im semi comfortable doing this. I have the diamond hole saw and plumbers puddy to do so. The positive is that i bought the tank new with a damaged overflow. I had another overflow made for it which is a bit bigger. I plan on doing a herbie style drain.

Originally Posted by Lsufan

With the drop to the basement it will benefit by having the valve for the syphon close to the sump. With the valve close to the sump u will get the same pressure going into the sump as if the sump was under the tank.

I never thought of this But I will do this.

Originally Posted by Lsufan

If u plan on using the mag pump then although I don't have personal experience, I have read numerous post by uncle that says u need 1.5" plumbing on a mag pump or it kills the flow.

I read this as well but i cant understand how. To me it seems like the larger the pipe the more water needs to be pushed. I was looking into hebao dc pumps the 12000 model if the mag doesnt cut it. I wonder if a 1.5" return will be ok for that as well?

Originally Posted by Lsufan

One of these days the tank manufacturers will quit making these tanks with only two holes being 3/4" & 1" & the small overflow boxes & calling them reef ready tanks. That isn't a reef ready tank. At the very least they should eighther drill 3 holes for 1" bulkheads or for 1.5" bulkheads, depending on the size of the tank.

I wondered this also. If newer methods are better then why do they all have durso setups? Id say it is bc they are plug and play with no tuning.

[ca1ore]

Many of the mass market tanks now do dual 1" holes at least. It takes mass market manufactures years to catch up to the leading edge, regardless of industry. How long did it take auto manufacturers to realize that nobody plays cassette tapes anymore. Still haven't seen one with bluray capability. Best approach if one goes MM is to buy a non-RR tank and do your own overflow.

[Lsufan]

Having the valve at the sump will help the system but it will make it a pain to get setup having to go from the basement upstairs to the tank to see what the adjustment has done. I don't run a herbie, I have a beananimal on both my setups but once I had mine dialed in when I setup the tank I have not had to touch the valve on the syphon drain in a couple of years. On a herbie I think u will have to adjust the valve more often but I don't think it is something u will have to be constantly doing.

If u are comfortable drilling the tank & u have the room in the overflow box, I would seriously consider drilling another hole so u can run a beananimal. That way u will be adding redundancy because it is the safest drain, but it is also more self regulated to where once u get it dialed in u don't have to touch it. It's not easy to do & u have to be careful but i would open the 3/4" bulkhead to 1" & drill another hole for a additional 1" bulkhead. So u will have 3- 1" bulkheads for a bean drain.

I would also stick with your idea about using larger plumbing, I would use 1.5" plumbing on the 1" bulkheads.

If u decide to leave it as it is u would need to use the 3/4" bulkhead for the syphon & the 1" for the emergency. U don't want the emergency to be smaller then the syphon. Although it may not be a issue because u have the syphon dialed way back & the 3/4" could handle it, u would be taking a chance. If u have the syphon dialed in to where the 3/4" couldn't handle that amount of flow then u would have a flood if the syphon got clogged. That's why it's best to have the smaller bulkhead the syphon, because no matter where u have it dialed in the emergency would be able to handle all the flow because it is the larger bulkhead.

[keh9qd]

Well, I emailed deep blue on the bottom glass. They told me it is tempered??? It is drilled already,i dont inderstand how it is tempered? Did they tell me incorrectly or is there a way to drill tempered glass?

[Breadman03]

Originally Posted by keh9qd

Well, I emailed deep blue on the bottom glass. They told me it is tempered??? It is drilled already,i dont inderstand how it is tempered? Did they tell me incorrectly or is there a way to drill tempered glass?

They drill it before tempering.

[ca1ore]

Did u ask them about the sides? You could always put a hole in the rear panel but within the overflow. Probably unecessary though as a dual drains are quite sufficient. You'll get more flow than needed from a 3/4" siphon dropping 10 feet. Will mean an over the rim return though.

[Hal]

Originally Posted by keh9qd

Well, I emailed deep blue on the bottom glass. They told me it is tempered??? It is drilled already,i dont inderstand how it is tempered? Did they tell me incorrectly or is there a way to drill tempered glass?

You can't drill tempered glass.

+1 to a Herbie or Bean animal, depending on whether you are willing to have your return come over the side.

A 1 inch pipe will flow about 600gph in non-siphon mode and about 900gph in siphon mode with about 10 feet of drop.

As you can see, even a 1 inch drain will move more water than you need if it is in siphon mode. I'm installing a 250g tank in my new house and am seriously considering using a 1 inch drain in siphon for my main drain into my basement sump.

[Sk8r]

I have a similar fall for a 30 g basement sump. I valved the 'up' line while it fed a smaller tank; now (Iwaki 100) it does well for a 105. The drain line is single. I think it's a 1.5" drain and a 1" return. It is an energetic water entry, which is a good thing. It never fails, being from a doublewalled factory-installed downflow box. I can't claim it's quiet. You will get the sound of the waterfall and the pump. Iwakis are not quiet.
Never valve a drain line: it can create a disaster.