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Unread 06/21/2017, 02:34 PM   #1
FishNDip
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Question The Truth About Ich

I'd like the truth about ich. Only learned answers to these questions plz. No QT is not necessary garbage. I'll be referring to this later.

Fill in the Blanks:

You should keep a tank fishless for _____ weeks after an Ich outbreak.

You should QT fish in hypo-salinity to kill ich for ____ weeks.

Snails should be QT for ____ weeks to kill ich on there shells.

inverts without shells (ex. shrimp) should be Qt for ____ weeks to kill ich.


Now inverts I know can't get ich on them, but the ich can be in the water. So is there lifespan shorter at that stage, meaning less qt time? Or could you pour water over them in a net, and drop them in the tank?


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Unread 06/21/2017, 02:36 PM   #2
homer1475
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All the answers your looking for is right at the top of this forum in a stickie.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626


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Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Unread 06/21/2017, 03:25 PM   #3
FishNDip
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Thank you sir! You are a life saver!

I just want to run this through an expert like you, but my last question on how long to QT Inverts would be 24 hours? Snorvich (who has an excellent reputation) states that after the theronts hatch, they swim around and must find a host in 24 hours or die. So if an employee takes a shrimp out of there tank with a net, the water the shrimp is in will be rid of Ich in 24 hours?


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Unread 06/21/2017, 03:44 PM   #4
homer1475
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While I've never QT'ed inverts, some will say to QT anything wet.

If I were to QT inverts I would go the TTM route and do like one transfer just because they cannot live on an invert. If there is any ich present, they should fall off their shells within one transfer.

The likely hood of ich on inverts is very slim and most don't Qt inverts.

FYI never, and I mean never put any water from your LFS or shipper into your tank. I like using a small plastic colander that I dump the fish/inverts/coral in while dumping all the water down the drain. Then I will put them into QT/TTM tank or wherever their going.


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Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Unread 06/21/2017, 05:36 PM   #5
thegrun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishNDip View Post
Thank you sir! You are a life saver!

I just want to run this through an expert like you, but my last question on how long to QT Inverts would be 24 hours? Snorvich (who has an excellent reputation) states that after the theronts hatch, they swim around and must find a host in 24 hours or die. So if an employee takes a shrimp out of there tank with a net, the water the shrimp is in will be rid of Ich in 24 hours?
An encysted tomont could survive three to as long as twenty eight days on your snails before launching tomites back into your tank. To be completely safe you would need to quarantine the snails 72 days.


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Unread 06/21/2017, 06:36 PM   #6
FishNDip
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Yes a snail could have it on there shells, but what about an invert without a shell? Like shrimp? The tomont cannot attach to anything so taking snorvicks thread seriously, the ich will die in 24 hours because they have nothing to attach to. That's correct right?

Ich is like baking, I'm trying to follow the recipe exactly and If I don't I could spoil the whole cake.


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Unread 06/21/2017, 06:51 PM   #7
reefwars
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishNDip View Post
Yes a snail could have it on there shells, but what about an invert without a shell? Like shrimp? The tomont cannot attach to anything so taking snorvicks thread seriously, the ich will die in 24 hours because they have nothing to attach to. That's correct right?

Ich is like baking, I'm trying to follow the recipe exactly and If I don't I could spoil the whole cake.

First tank is like a first baby your taking every small precaution and sparing no expense to do it the right way then after more tanks it's like meh quicker and cheaper the better in and out like bam lol


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Unread 06/21/2017, 09:03 PM   #8
FishNDip
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Why would I have to wait 72 days to be safe?! I just read snorvicks page and it says tomont can only live three to twenty eight days. After that the "tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again"

Soooo, once the Ich transforms into encyst, it can take 28 days to hatch. Add (+) that with 24 hours with the theronts = 29 days of no fish. And lets just say the ich is in trophont stage and crawling around for seven days in your QT then attatches to your snail shell, then you add 7+29= 36 days of QT for snails.

That's why I believe you must QT shrimp for 24 hours just incase the tomites have hatched into theronts and must find a host in 24 hours.


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Unread 06/22/2017, 09:47 AM   #9
Mishri
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The longest ich has been observed surviving in egg form and hatching living swimmers is 72 days. However, those were under specific conditions with antibiotics to keep bacteria from eating the egg. The researcher who found it believes that after 60 days under normal conditions it would be devoured and somewhere around 72 days would be an appropriate timeline for QT. If your QT is being treated with antibiotics, then who knows how long you might need to wait? -generally this isn't an issue though as inverts aren't normally given antibiotics.

The average found by most other researchers is hatching somewhere around 10 days, with around 30 days being on the longest- in their study.. there are multiple strains of ich though and current theory is that some will wait longer than other strains to hatch.

ich can encyst on inverts, so anything you add needs to wait for the 72-90 days. If they don't have a shell you need to wait for them to molt, as they can encyst on the outside of shrimp and things. remove the molt and wait a day or 2, 3 wouldn't hurt to be more safe to add the invert. -this is in a fishless environment.


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Last edited by Mishri; 06/22/2017 at 09:53 AM.
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Unread 06/22/2017, 10:30 AM   #10
FishNDip
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Well why wouldn't snorvick mention this extended period? That's quite a while to wait for inverts . Does the same time add to coral?


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Unread 06/22/2017, 11:42 AM   #11
Mishri
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yes, corals too. Snorvick's post is pretty old, and he was referencing other studies at the time.. .and usually 60 days is enough time. the extended time is for those who want certainty. He also doesn't list Chloroquine phosphate which has seen a lot of use in the US lately as it's become available on ebay and amazon... used to be a medication you'd need to see a vet for, used mostly by public aquariums.

edit-oh I guess it's not that old.. for some reason I thought his post was from 2003...


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Unread 06/22/2017, 11:51 AM   #12
Mishri
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here is an updated post with more info from the fish disease section

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2159738


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