Help with fish breathing

[idh550]

Hello,

Two days ago I did a water change. Yesterday I noticed that all my fish were breathing heavy. I have one clownfish, two bangaii cardinals, one YWG, and one saddle valentini puffer. I have a 29g with a HOB rated for 30 gallons and a canister filter rated for 50 gallons, as well as a pump that does over 500 GPH. I tested the water and ammonia and nitrite is zero, nitrate was 20 ppm. I decided against a water change. I thought their heavy breathing might be not enough oxygen and turned my powerhead towards the surface, as well as my canister filter's spraybar. I also added two air stones. By the end of the night, the breathing seemed to have gone down a bit.

This morning they were still breathing heavy. I am going to be gone for a week and decided that I would do another water change. After the change I tested the water again. Ammonia and nitrite was still zero, and nitrate looked to read about 5 ppm. A couple hours after, I fed them mysis shrimp. They all ate very well. Just recently I noticed the puffer is breathing quite heavy again, his cheeks and area around his fins inflating and deflating rapidly.

A side note as well: My YWG is a baby, about 1 - 1.5 inches. I put him in last Friday and today has been the first time I have seen him. He was breathing heavy also.

I would appreciate any help, thank you guys!

[Floyd79]

My first thought would be oxygen.

Did the salinity of the water change water match the existing salinity? How about temp?

What's the ph at?

Are you using tap water?

Is there a lid on the tank?

Do any of the fish have any other signs like spots, red gills?

How old is the tank?

[Sk8r]

There must be surface agitation for co2 to leave. Take a pitcher and from a one foot height, dip and pour to get some more oxygen in there. Hopefully it's not a sickness, just a circulation issue.

[idh550]

Thanks for replying.

My PH has maintained a steady 8.0. (It is kind of hard to tell with the API kit, in some lights it looks to be at 8.2, but it is always the same color.) There is a lid on the tank, but very cheap and flimsy. I never have much evaporation, though. I ordered a replacement glass lid for both my 10g fresh and 29g saltwater off Foster and Smith, should be coming tomorrow or the next day. The tank is pretty new, first fish added a bit over a month ago. There is no signs of illness besides the heavy breathing. They are all healthy and swim around like normal. As far as tap water, it depends. I started it up on RO water. For my water changes (I have done about 5 so far), I have used tap water with Seachem prime, one water change was used with fresh RO water though. The salt I use is Instant Ocean. I understand the dangers of tap water, but in my area I have never had problems. Able to keep nitrates low, no large algae blooms, and my fresh and (salt so far) fish have been very happy and healthy on it.As far as salinity is it has maintained at 1.025 or 1.026. Has never been more or less that that. My temp has also been 78 degrees from the very beginning.

Could the tap water be causing it? I'm keeping pretty hardy fish so far and have not seen any real negative side effects from it. I do have a video of the puffer, YWG, and a bangaii cardinal, but I don't know how to do upload it.

I will upload pictures for now to show that they look well.

[idh550]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

There must be surface agitation for co2 to leave. Take a pitcher and from a one foot height, dip and pour to get some more oxygen in there. Hopefully it's not a sickness, just a circulation issue.

Alright, I will try that. After my water change I also forgot to turn the spraybar towards the surface again. But two air stones, the pump and spraybar turned to the surface still isn't enough? How do you get oxygen into your tank?

[lg2725]

Has anyone sprayed anything (aerosol cans, etc..) near the tank. Pet near it with flea/tick medicine?

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by idh550

Alright, I will try that. After my water change I also forgot to turn the spraybar towards the surface again. But two air stones, the pump and spraybar turned to the surface still isn't enough? How do you get oxygen into your tank?

That should be more than enough O2 in the water.

Do you have any activated carbon filtration available? I'd worry there's something else in the water irritating them.

[idh550]

Originally Posted by alcimedes

That should be more than enough O2 in the water.

Do you have any activated carbon filtration available? I'd worry there's something else in the water irritating them.

Both my HOB and canister are running carbon.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by idh550

Both my HOB and canister are running carbon.

when was the last time you swapped the carbon out? They do fill up over time, after which they start leeching the bad crap they've picked up back into the water.

[idh550]

Originally Posted by lg2725

Has anyone sprayed anything (aerosol cans, etc..) near the tank. Pet near it with flea/tick medicine?

Hmm... Not that I know of. My animals aren't currently on any medicines, and the last time I cleaned my glass was a couple days ago with Sprayway glass cleaner I think it is called. That doesn't mean somebody hasn't sprayed air freshener or something.

[idh550]

Originally Posted by alcimedes

when was the last time you swapped the carbon out? They do fill up over time, after which they start leeching the bad crap they've picked up back into the water.

The carbon on the HOB is like three ? weeks old. I just installed my canister filter Sunday. It has ceramic rings, carbon, bio balls, and padding. Could I have not cleaned the media well enough?? But I only noticed the heavy breathing yesterday.

[alcimedes]

If you have replacement carbon, it's relatively cheap, and if it's not a shortage of O2, I'm guessing the next set of advice from most people will be water changes, and swapping out the carbon.

Given that you're using tap water to make your saltwater though, I'd probably just start by replacing the carbon on the off chance there's something in the tap water irritating the fish's gills.

[Diana A]

You need to get rid of the glass lid. That type of lid traps gas...need O2 to enter. When the water evaporates, you add RODI water. The only lid that should be on a reef tank is a net lid. AP test kits can be off.

[Sk8r]

If you are using a glass lid, a sump that is NOT lidded can provide the exchange, but using a canister is one more closed system that can't breathe.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by Diana A

You need to get rid of the glass lid. That type of lid traps gas...need O2 to enter. When the water evaporates, you add RODI water. The only lid that should be on a reef tank is a net lid. AP test kits can be off.

If they have airstones in the tank, won't that force gas exchange, lid or not? Air is being pumped into the closed space, it's got to exit somewhere, and I'd presume gas exchange would be happening at whatever rate the air pump is adding air.

[idh550]

Originally Posted by alcimedes

If you have replacement carbon, it's relatively cheap, and if it's not a shortage of O2, I'm guessing the next set of advice from most people will be water changes, and swapping out the carbon.

Given that you're using tap water to make your saltwater though, I'd probably just start by replacing the carbon on the off chance there's something in the tap water irritating the fish's gills.

Alright. I had two extra cartridges of carbon for my HOB. I then added my Seachem Purigen packet and one of the old carbon cartridges in my canister. I do not have any extra carbon, however. I'm hoping more carbon and the purigen packet into my canister, which pumps a whole lot more gallons per hour, will help.

[alcimedes]

i would not put old carbon back in a filter. it is likely to leech back into the tank things it had removed previously.

If you added two fresh ones to the HOB, I'd just leave those run for a while. Any change in breathing?

[idh550]

Originally Posted by Diana A

You need to get rid of the glass lid. That type of lid traps gas...need O2 to enter. When the water evaporates, you add RODI water. The only lid that should be on a reef tank is a net lid. AP test kits can be off.

Alright, but I have one problem haha. I have several cats and have found them on more than one occasion on top of the tank. When I say my current lid is thin.... I mean thin. I am surprised it hasn't cracked from the weight of one of my cats. I needed a more supportive lid to hold them. I don't want them on my tanks, but I'm not with them or the tank all the time. Thanks for letting me know though. I thought the API test kits were the most accurate though? What do you use?

[idh550]

Originally Posted by alcimedes

i would not put old carbon back in a filter. it is likely to leech back into the tank things it had removed previously.

If you added two fresh ones to the HOB, I'd just leave those run for a while. Any change in breathing?

Okay, makes sense. Will take it out. I just didn't want to take out any cycled media I may have since the tank is still young.

[idh550]

Originally Posted by idh550

Okay, makes sense. Will take it out. I just didn't want to take out any cycled media I may have since the tank is still young.

My clownfish and one of the Bangaii are breathing pretty much like normal. The other Bangaii is on its way there.... however the saddle valentini is sleeping and it is only 6 pm. Lights go out usually at 9 pm. Is this a bad sign or is it really just as simple as him sleeping?

[j.falk]

Originally Posted by idh550

I understand the dangers of tap water, but in my area I have never had problems. Able to keep nitrates low, no large algae blooms, and my fresh and (salt so far) fish have been very happy and healthy on it.As far as salinity is it has maintained at 1.025 or 1.026. Has never been more or less that that. My temp has also been 78 degrees from the very beginning.

Could the tap water be causing it? I'm keeping pretty hardy fish so far and have not seen any real negative side effects from it. I do have a video of the puffer, YWG, and a bangaii cardinal, but I don't know how to do upload it.

I will upload pictures for now to show that they look well.

True Story: I had a beautiful 75 gallon fully planted freshwater aquarium with 2 breeding pair of angelfish, some cory cats, two dozen neons tetras and a red tail shark in it and I kept the tank for roughly three years without a single problem other than having to take out some of the plants because they were overgrowing the tank. My routine was simple, feed the fish daily, change the carbon monthly and I always did a partial water change once a week every Sunday on my day off using tap water with the usual chemicals for neutralizing the chlorine and adjusting the ph. My tank was thriving. Never had a kept such a fantastic looking aquarium before and I was proud of it. Then one day, I did my usual Sunday morning water change exactly as I always had and thirty minutes later every fish in that tank was dead from the chemicals that the city had added to the tap water supply. That was a hard day to go through. After that, I sold the tank and got out of the hobby for the better part of ten years. My advice, don't ever use tap water...it's not worth the gamble if you value your aquarium's livestock.

[Floyd79]

Lids are an issue with saltwater tanks. It's due to gas exchange regardless of surface agitation etc.

Filtration: Your liverock is the biological filtration not any other media so replacing carbon will not effect any biological filtration.
Carbon bags can be rinsed weekly to remove detritus and carbon replaced every 3 weeks or it just releases things back into the water.

Sponges really shouldn't be used in sw filters, they are nutrient traps. It's best to use filter floss that's replaced twice a week. It's used simply to remove particles from the water, to trap food. Etc.

Bioballs can be an issue as well with nutrients and trapping them.

Canisters need frequent cleaning.

Tap water is a big issue. It's not just about the nutrients and issues that come with those nutrients but the numerous chemicals used to treat it and all other contaminants.
Conditioners can't remove everything.

Ro/do or distilled should be used in saltwater tanks.

Btw, Prime is a great product but it does effect oxygen levels in the tank.

When you clean the glass on the tank, spray any cleaner far away from the tank onto a cloth.

Hope this helps

[Diana A]

Originally Posted by idh550

The carbon on the HOB is like three ? weeks old. I just installed my canister filter Sunday. It has ceramic rings, carbon, bio balls, and padding. Could I have not cleaned the media well enough?? But I only noticed the heavy breathing yesterday.

Be careful of those pads in your canister. They need to be cleaned every week. The canister would not be the problem. It only has plain carbon, not a carbon with ammonia blend?

[idh550]

Originally Posted by Diana A

Be careful of those pads in your canister. They need to be cleaned every week. The canister would not be the problem. It only has plain carbon, not a carbon with ammonia blend?

I do have polyester filling for my filters, I am going to start using solely that when I get back home instead of the padding as well. I think it is plain carbon.

[Diana A]

poly fill will do the same as the pads...trapping poop, food, etc. and shouldn't be used unless you will rinse the pad or replace it on a weekly basis