Ditching Vortech MP60 for Tunze. Which ones?

[HippieSmell]

In the last year, I've had two mp60's with two defective wet sides. Now a dry side is going bad and shut off yesterday, requiring a reboot. I'm sick of dealing with the problems, so I'm looking at replacing with Tunze.

Should I get some Stream 3's or 6255's?

[LQT]

Your tank dimensions seem to make it a good candidate for a pair of Stream 3s. How thick is the acrylic on your tank? You may want to check with Roger (rvitko) to make sure they have the appropriate magnet adapters to accommodate the thickness of your acrylic.

[HippieSmell]

Originally Posted by LQT

Your tank dimensions seem to make it a good candidate for a pair of Stream 3s. How thick is the acrylic on your tank? You may want to check with Roger (rvitko) to make sure they have the appropriate magnet adapters to accommodate the thickness of your acrylic.

Tank is 3/4". But, my overflows are angled across the back corners, so I could place then there.

[Mark Bianco]

When I had a tank of similar size I asked Roger for Tunze and he said what works for most people. Towards the corners either back wall or on the sides about half way down vertically with both pointing at the front glass in the middle. He was correct it worked well nice strong but indirect flow...

HTH
Mark

[HippieSmell]

Originally Posted by Mark Bianco

When I had a tank of similar size I asked Roger for Tunze and he said what works for most people. Towards the corners either back wall or on the sides about half way down vertically with both pointing at the front glass in the middle. He was correct it worked well nice strong but indirect flow...

HTH
Mark

Thanks

I ended up getting four 6150's from BRS because of their sale. I'll have cords in the tank, but I'm expecting far fewer defects, RMA's, and headaches.

[Overgrown]

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

Thanks

I ended up getting four 6150's from BRS because of their sale. I'll have cords in the tank, but I'm expecting far fewer defects, RMA's, and headaches.

Indeed. Buying two 6255’s soon. Vortech’s are garbage. I’ll never buy Ecotech again. I used to have two MP20’s that I used as fridge magnets after they took a s*** a few months after the two year warranty. Just threw another failed MP40 in the trash yesterday. Never again. Never had a single issue with my Tunze’s

[pleasants9]

Has something changed with the Vortech design or have more just been reaching their lifespan? I feel like 3 years ago Vortech's were the gold standard.

[ktownhero]

Originally Posted by Overgrown

Indeed. Buying two 6255’s soon. Vortech’s are garbage. I’ll never buy Ecotech again. I used to have two MP20’s that I used as fridge magnets after they took a s*** a few months after the two year warranty. Just threw another failed MP40 in the trash yesterday. Never again. Never had a single issue with my Tunze’s

So you got full use out of a product for 2 years and it's "garbage"? How long did you use the MP40? And what was wrong with them that was irreplaceable?

[oseymour]

Originally Posted by Overgrown

Indeed. Buying two 6255’s soon. Vortech’s are garbage. I’ll never buy Ecotech again. I used to have two MP20’s that I used as fridge magnets after they took a s*** a few months after the two year warranty. Just threw another failed MP40 in the trash yesterday. Never again. Never had a single issue with my Tunze’s

Originally Posted by ktownhero

So you got full use out of a product for 2 years and it's "garbage"? How long did you use the MP40? And what was wrong with them that was irreplaceable?

He said MP20 and those products were discontinued in 2010. So it's been a while. I'm not saying his review isn't true but it's an old product and an old design.

[mlb75]

IMO 2 years or even 4 isn't an acceptable lifespan for a product that is hailed as high quality like they are. I had 6105's that lasted 8+ years running 24/7 and we're still running fine when I got a deal on replacements. The only thing I ever did was clean them and replace a couple impellers. The only reason I replaced them was the new ones come with controllers so I was able to simplify my system, the new mounts had the vibration dampening that mine didn't and it was close to a wash by the time I sold my existing ones and controller to get new ones.

I think EcoTech is a great company it just seems they're starting to see more failures or at least we're hearing about them. From what I've read their customer service is great but I prefer products that don't' require it.

With the 6105's just make sure you clean the intake screens, when they start growing over with algae etc it will effect output pretty quickly, that's my only "gripe" about them. Other than that I love them and the ability to aim the output vs it being straight ahead and the fact that it's easier to hide the cords in the tank by running them down the corners in the back or burying them under the sand than having the motor's sticking off the side of the tank.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by pleasants9

Has something changed with the Vortech design or have more just been reaching their lifespan? I feel like 3 years ago Vortech's were the gold standard.

Nope, in fact I would judge them to be more reliable now. There were some quality control issues with the MP40 wetsides a couple of years ago, but that seems to have been resolved. I'm not entirely sure why some folks seem to have so much trouble with them. I have 8 across the three models and have had zero dryside issues and only normal wear and tear on the wetsides. Heck I'm still running a MP40 with the original wetside from 2011.

Coupling the pump through glass/acrylic ads a level of complexity not faced by other pumps, and of course the dry side needs to stay dry. All to say that user error is a bigger problem with the vortech. Use the proper spacer, keep the dryside dry and make sure the motor is coupling smoothly (can do this by feeling the dryside) and I see no reason not to get many years from them.

Though I favor vortech for other reasons, there's no question that Tunze is the best flow pump when it comes to reliability and perhaps a better chose for anyone predisposed to user error

[HippieSmell]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Nope, in fact I would judge them to be more reliable now. There were some quality control issues with the MP40 wetsides a couple of years ago, but that seems to have been resolved. I'm not entirely sure why some folks seem to have so much trouble with them. I have 8 across the three models and have had zero dryside issues and only normal wear and tear on the wetsides. Heck I'm still running a MP40 with the original wetside from 2011.

Coupling the pump through glass/acrylic ads a level of complexity not faced by other pumps, and of course the dry side needs to stay dry. All to say that user error is a bigger problem with the vortech. Use the proper spacer, keep the dryside dry and make sure the motor is coupling smoothly (can do this by feeling the dryside) and I see no reason not to get many years from them.

Though I favor vortech for other reasons, there's no question that Tunze is the best flow pump when it comes to reliability and perhaps a better chose for anyone predisposed to user error

Both of mine were bad ceramic sleeves. At least in my case, it wasn't user error.

[ktownhero]

Originally Posted by mlb75

IMO 2 years or even 4 isn't an acceptable lifespan for a product that is hailed as high quality like they are. I had 6105's that lasted 8+ years running 24/7 and we're still running fine when I got a deal on replacements. The only thing I ever did was clean them and replace a couple impellers. The only reason I replaced them was the new ones come with controllers so I was able to simplify my system, the new mounts had the vibration dampening that mine didn't and it was close to a wash by the time I sold my existing ones and controller to get new ones.

I think EcoTech is a great company it just seems they're starting to see more failures or at least we're hearing about them. From what I've read their customer service is great but I prefer products that don't' require it.

With the 6105's just make sure you clean the intake screens, when they start growing over with algae etc it will effect output pretty quickly, that's my only "gripe" about them. Other than that I love them and the ability to aim the output vs it being straight ahead and the fact that it's easier to hide the cords in the tank by running them down the corners in the back or burying them under the sand than having the motor's sticking off the side of the tank.

It would be interesting to know more information about how many people actually have problems, and when (in terms of lifespan). I suspect that there are far, far, far more people who use them problem free for many years.

Also, the design of the Vortechs leaves more room for user error, whereas you really can't do anything "wrong" with standard powerhead design. A prime example is how many people in one of the recent "problem" threads indicated that they don't ziptie the cord down the way Ecotech says is required, thereby putting far more force on the magnetic coupling than is supposed to occur.

Additionally, due to the excellent options available via the standard Vortech controllers, I imagine that their pumps are run in patterns that put far more wear on the pumps. How many people have Tunzes that run in patterns that include rapid (sub-second) ramps/up down? That are fully randomized? That change throughout the entire day?

I just think there's a lot more to the picture than the oversimplified comparisons that we see. You really get two different things from Tunze and Ecotech powerheads. It's a little like comparing a reliable performance car vs a car that's just plain reliable. Like you can get a Honda that will need almost no maintenance for 200k miles, but is it fair to say it is a better car than a BMW which is likely to require regular maintenance to be kept in proper running order? They are different animals.

[HippieSmell]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

It would be interesting to know more information about how many people actually have problems, and when (in terms of lifespan). I suspect that there are far, far, far more people who use them problem free for many years.

Also, the design of the Vortechs leaves more room for user error, whereas you really can't do anything "wrong" with standard powerhead design. A prime example is how many people in one of the recent "problem" threads indicated that they don't ziptie the cord down the way Ecotech says is required, thereby putting far more force on the magnetic coupling than is supposed to occur.

Additionally, due to the excellent options available via the standard Vortech controllers, I imagine that their pumps are run in patterns that put far more wear on the pumps. How many people have Tunzes that run in patterns that include rapid (sub-second) ramps/up down? That are fully randomized? That change throughout the entire day?

I just think there's a lot more to the picture than the oversimplified comparisons that we see. You really get two different things from Tunze and Ecotech powerheads. It's a little like comparing a reliable performance car vs a car that's just plain reliable. Like you can get a Honda that will need almost no maintenance for 200k miles, but is it fair to say it is a better car than a BMW which is likely to require regular maintenance to be kept in proper running order? They are different animals.

I love how people are so quick to blame the end user for hardware defects. Also, if a product isn't durable enough to be used as designed, such as quick ramping and pulsing, that's a design flaw not user error. Vortech's reliability bears little semblance to Tunze, being "sporty" or not. Whatever that means. Does the water move in a "sporty" way when it comes off of the Vortech propeller?

[ktownhero]

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

I love how people are so quick to blame the end user for hardware defects. Also, if a product isn't durable enough to be used as designed, such as quick ramping and pulsing, that's a design flaw not user error. Vortech's reliability bears little semblance to Tunze, being "sporty" or not. Whatever that means. Does the water move in a "sporty" way when it comes off of the Vortech propeller?

I made entirely valid points that involved no "blame" on anyone. Facts. Being condescending and dismissive is not an answer to them. If you've had issues, that's entirely valid -- I wasn't directing anything toward you specifically. But I am directing toward the general sentiment that they are somehow poorly made products. It's a ridiculous implication.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

Both of mine were bad ceramic sleeves. At least in my case, it wasn't user error.

That's fine. My post was more to juxtapose the predictable 'they suck' posts that inevitably pop up.

[HippieSmell]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

I made entirely valid points that involved no "blame" on anyone. Facts. Being condescending and dismissive is not an answer to them. If you've had issues, that's entirely valid -- I wasn't directing anything toward you specifically. But I am directing toward the general sentiment that they are somehow poorly made products. It's a ridiculous implication.

Sorry. There were a couple posts in a row that sounded like I was "doing it wrong" and breaking an otherwise reliable product.

[ktownhero]

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

Sorry. There were a couple posts in a row that sounded like I was "doing it wrong" and breaking an otherwise reliable product.

If I made it sound that way, my apologies -- it's not what I meant. It certainly sucks if an expensive product doesn't last as long as you hoped it would, but Ecotech does offer some pretty easy drop-in replacement parts. Well, not for the MP20 any more, but for the others.

[Fishbulb2]

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

In the last year, I've had two mp60's with two defective wet sides. Now a dry side is going bad and shut off yesterday, requiring a reboot. I'm sick of dealing with the problems, so I'm looking at replacing with Tunze.

Should I get some Stream 3's or 6255's?

Good for you. I started out with Tunzes when the bar design came out well over a decade ago. At the time they were hailed the greatest thing. I then bought into the Vortechs. I finally switched back to the Tunzes after all of the noise and head aches with 3 vortech pumps. I now have 3 MP10's in a box including 2 with the quite drive. The tunzes are just work horses. I have 4 including my original two that still work flawlessly. Great pumps.

FB

[schprock]

I bought the first mp40 when it first came out. 2 failed wet sides later in a period of 6 months, I went and bought 2 used tunze 6055 on RC. Over 10 years later the Tunzes finally died.

So for me
Vortech 6 months
Tunzes greater than 10 years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Overgrown]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

I made entirely valid points that involved no "blame" on anyone. Facts. Being condescending and dismissive is not an answer to them. If you've had issues, that's entirely valid -- I wasn't directing anything toward you specifically. But I am directing toward the general sentiment that they are somehow poorly made products. It's a ridiculous implication.

Ridiculous eh? Don’t rely on the content contained within this thread. Simply do a google search for rusted vortech wet sides. There’s tons of them. And that’s just One variable amongst many! For example I never had a wet side rust. But all of my dry sides failed after 2 or 3 years and Ecotech refused to repair/ replace them unless I forked out a substantial number for a “fix.” As others have mentioned, some of us hold our products to a higher caliber of expectation than what is simply listed on the warranty. I personally wasn’t even aware there were consumers out there like yourself who are simply content with “getting the full life, “ as you put it, out of a product simply secondary to the manufacturers stated warranty. Perhaps I’ll adopt this logic for my next truck I’m about to buy next week. I think the warranty is a few years or about 25,000 miles. If the vehicle takes a total s*** shortly after and is unrepairable, as my Vortech’s did, “ Welp! At least I got the full life of the warranty out of it,” and will walk away whistling jovially.

[GrampaDon]

After 2 yrs and 1 month both my MP40 QDs developed swollen magnets. 1 badly and 1 a little uneven and a cracked magnet covering.

So I pulled out my 2X6105s that have over 6 yrs and counting.
And haven't needed anything.

[ktownhero]

Originally Posted by Overgrown

Ridiculous eh? Don’t rely on the content contained within this thread. Simply do a google search for rusted vortech wet sides. There’s tons of them. And that’s just One variable amongst many! For example I never had a wet side rust. But all of my dry sides failed after 2 or 3 years and Ecotech refused to repair/ replace them unless I forked out a substantial number for a “fix.” As others have mentioned, some of us hold our products to a higher caliber of expectation than what is simply listed on the warranty. I personally wasn’t even aware there were consumers out there like yourself who are simply content with “getting the full life, “ as you put it, out of a product simply secondary to the manufacturers stated warranty. Perhaps I’ll adopt this logic for my next truck I’m about to buy next week. I think the warranty is a few years or about 25,000 miles. If the vehicle takes a total s*** shortly after and is unrepairable, as my Vortech’s did, “ Welp! At least I got the full life of the warranty out of it,” and will walk away whistling jovially.

That sucks if all of your dry sides failed, but that most certainly is anecdotal.

You referenced the abundance of threads about rust issues, but then went on to state you never had the issue. Surely you know that most of those "issues" people bring up are wrong? It's mostly people being over-sensitive about a small amount of rust coloration that is expected to form on the shaft. In fewer instances, there are people whose wet side housing opened and rusted -- but I'm skeptical... When you look at those pictures it's dumbfounding to imagine that someone let the pump run like that and go unnoticed. I mean we're talking about people that must have neglected the pump for at least a year, probably more.

I just think the Vortechs are super expensive and people get very angry when their super expensive product shows any sign of having an issue.

I have an honest question -- is there any way to take a couple Tunze pumps and have them perform anything close to the modes on the Vortech controllers? For example, could you create randomized patterns like Reef Crest, or modes like NTM that utilized varying patterns and auto-tuned pulses?

[LQT]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

I have an honest question -- is there any way to take a couple Tunze pumps and have them perform anything close to the modes on the Vortech controllers? For example, could you create randomized patterns like Reef Crest, or modes like NTM that utilized varying patterns and auto-tuned pulses?

Yes...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1994312

[Dmorty217]

I would look at the Masterstream versions of the Tunze.