If you Epoxy rock structures... how do you remove rocks to clean pests, etc?

SereneAquatic · 11/25/2017, 08:51 AM

I've seen posts that seem to conflict with each other...

Most say to Epoxy and use rod/pin to create stable rock structures in the tank so they aren't falling or being knocked around.

Shortly after that I see posts where people are dealing with pest problems and people recommend taking entire rocks out of the tank and scrubbing them (Was in a post about Dinos, specifically most recently).

If rocks are stuck to each other and the tank, how do you take rocks out for various reasons? Are these people just not reinforcing the rock structure?

Maybe a quick poll... How many of you actually use glue/epoxy to create your aquascape, and what are you using to do it?

billdogg · 11/25/2017, 10:29 AM

I don't epoxy a thing. No connecting rods either. Careful placement and maybe a little action with a hammer and chisel to get a good friction fit is all I've ever used. IMHO, although I have seen some very nice structures built if they cannot be taken apart for any one of several reasons, they will end up being more trouble than they are worth.

I speak from personal experience btw. About 1990 I got a 60 cube. I went to the local landscaping place and picked up a piece of pumice that weighed in at about 120lb. After a month or so of carving with a variety of tools, I had fashioned it into a nice looking reef structure with caves and swim-throughs. After siliconing it to the bottom (pumice floats!) I put the tank in service. I really liked that tank, except when I had to catch anything out of it. It was quite impossible without draining down to where just the sand wet. As much as I liked that tank, I will never do that to myself again.

mikenh77 · 11/25/2017, 10:45 AM

I used epoxy to make more interesting and natural looking rock structures. And I deal with pests. In my 20 years in the hobby I've had AEFW, red bugs, giant polyclad flatworms, aiptasia, majano, anemones,, clauerpa, and bryopsis. Chances if they are on one rock... They are most likely other places too... So id think they are ultimately handled the same as if they weren't expoxied together.

I don't epoxy everything together tough. Only a few pieces and fit them together.

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AlSimmons · 11/25/2017, 01:27 PM

If it's not the epoxy the corals have fused the rock together. How long has the tank been set up?

SereneAquatic · 11/25/2017, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlSimmons

If it's not the epoxy the corals have fused the rock together. How long has the tank been set up?

This is a brand new tank we are creating, our first one. We have some bridges and such, but we think that with some silicone we could get the rocks to stay together enough to not topple... they are pretty sturdy and heavy. We were going to try to drill holes and use rods for the upper portion of the bridge, but can't figure out a good contact point (or angle) to attach it since the rocks have lots of natural holes.

I've tried a few times to add JPEG images to the post, but it doesn't work

AlSimmons · 11/25/2017, 03:39 PM

If you do it right, which is kind of a loaded answer, you should be able to "pop" the rocks apart. (or a coral/frag) A method to the madness so to say... Go slow, kind of envision beforehand what might happen if things do go wrong. GL.

JohnnyK731 · 11/25/2017, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SereneAquatic

This is a brand new tank we are creating, our first one. We have some bridges and such, but we think that with some silicone we could get the rocks to stay together enough to not topple... they are pretty sturdy and heavy. We were going to try to drill holes and use rods for the upper portion of the bridge, but can't figure out a good contact point (or angle) to attach it since the rocks have lots of natural holes.

I've tried a few times to add JPEG images to the post, but it doesn't work

Get the application Tapatalk load the forum there and it’s simple to add photos from cellular device then

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

homer1475 · 11/25/2017, 03:42 PM

Ive always just stacked my rocks into interesting shapes. The fun part for me is getting them to stack together to where they won't topple. A hammer and chisel can always help and cherry picking your rock helps.

ca1ore · 11/25/2017, 05:02 PM

Generally I stack the rocks in such a way that they are mostly self stable. I then place a few strategic blobs of putty to make sure everything stays that way. Reef putty is not so strong that you can't pull the rocks apart if necessary.

billdogg · 11/25/2017, 05:28 PM

If you must use something, use reef epoxy (JB Waterweld). Silicone is a horrible choice because it will look like silicone until the end of time. Epoxy will eventually get overgrown with coraline algae and blend in nicely.

SereneAquatic · 11/25/2017, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

If you must use something, use reef epoxy (JB Waterweld). Silicone is a horrible choice because it will look like silicone until the end of time. Epoxy will eventually get overgrown with coraline algae and blend in nicely.

Thank you, I will go see if I can find this on Amazon.

billdogg · 11/25/2017, 07:09 PM

JB Waterweld is available at any hardware store-HD/Lowes etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mikenh77 · 11/25/2017, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Generally I stack the rocks in such a way that they are mostly self stable. I then place a few strategic blobs of putty to make sure everything stays that way. Reef putty is not so strong that you can't pull the rocks apart if necessary.

Right on. I do the same, fit the rocks together and then add three legs of epoxy support because triangles are the strongest shape in nature

.

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Jon0807 · 11/25/2017, 11:28 PM

I only use epoxy if I want a particular rock structure or shape. Otherwise I try to arrange the rock so they are pretty much set in place with little chance of moving.

JUNBUG361 · 11/25/2017, 11:35 PM

No epoxy or pins used here

SereneAquatic · 11/26/2017, 08:18 AM

Thank you all for the feedback. We've taken your advice into account (this thread and the other that I posted because the other one had disappeared... (I guess I was 'quarantined for a minute too!) and have decided to do a little chipping/chiseling on the rocks at their contact points to get more surface area touching (friction) and only do a tiny bit of aquarium putty to hold the upper part of the bridges. They dont want to move much as it is, and the rocks are pretty large and heavy so we can't imagine how a fish, or even ourselves, could move them accidentally.

This also ended up being a life saver in general because even though these rocks are heavy and dense, there are enough holes, crevices, tunnels, etc to make using the pins very difficult. We were struggling to find a solid enough place to drill for pins and were striking out. This makes it much easier.

We are also considering gluing/epoxying a 2" deep acrylic block UNDER each of the two large base rocks for the primary bridge. There are really neat swim through caves that would probably disappear once the sand is in. We want the structure to sit on the glass... but dont want to lose the height of the structure that we have on the table we're building on. In this way, we can use the acrylic blocks to stabilize the structure and then add the sand on top of it so it LOOKS like the rocks are sitting on top of the sand. If we ever have to take them out, we push the sand aside and it would come out together (block and stone).

Any reason we shouldn't do that?

SAT · 11/26/2017, 04:05 PM

For me it's a moot point. On the one hand, my rocks are 90% dry laid. On the other hand, in almost 15 years I have never felt the need to disassemble the rock structures in my tank.

View Poll Results: How do you build your aquascape?
I just pile rocks in, let them go where they may	6	54.55%
I epoxy most things, some small rocks are movable	4	36.36%
I use silicone on most things, some small rocks are movable	0	0%
I use rods/pins and epoxy or silicone	1	9.09%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

11/25/2017, 08:51 AM	#1
SereneAquatic Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Middle TN Posts: 200	If you Epoxy rock structures... how do you remove rocks to clean pests, etc? I've seen posts that seem to conflict with each other... Most say to Epoxy and use rod/pin to create stable rock structures in the tank so they aren't falling or being knocked around. Shortly after that I see posts where people are dealing with pest problems and people recommend taking entire rocks out of the tank and scrubbing them (Was in a post about Dinos, specifically most recently). If rocks are stuck to each other and the tank, how do you take rocks out for various reasons? Are these people just not reinforcing the rock structure? Maybe a quick poll... How many of you actually use glue/epoxy to create your aquascape, and what are you using to do it? __________________ Build Thread: "A new reefer... a new tank. What could go wrong?" Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 425 XL Deluxe, Nano Max, 55g Observation, 20g QT

11/25/2017, 10:29 AM	#2
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	I don't epoxy a thing. No connecting rods either. Careful placement and maybe a little action with a hammer and chisel to get a good friction fit is all I've ever used. IMHO, although I have seen some very nice structures built if they cannot be taken apart for any one of several reasons, they will end up being more trouble than they are worth. I speak from personal experience btw. About 1990 I got a 60 cube. I went to the local landscaping place and picked up a piece of pumice that weighed in at about 120lb. After a month or so of carving with a variety of tools, I had fashioned it into a nice looking reef structure with caves and swim-throughs. After siliconing it to the bottom (pumice floats!) I put the tank in service. I really liked that tank, except when I had to catch anything out of it. It was quite impossible without draining down to where just the sand wet. As much as I liked that tank, I will never do that to myself again. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

11/25/2017, 03:42 PM	#8
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Ive always just stacked my rocks into interesting shapes. The fun part for me is getting them to stack together to where they won't topple. A hammer and chisel can always help and cherry picking your rock helps. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

11/25/2017, 05:02 PM	#9
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Generally I stack the rocks in such a way that they are mostly self stable. I then place a few strategic blobs of putty to make sure everything stays that way. Reef putty is not so strong that you can't pull the rocks apart if necessary. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

11/25/2017, 10:45 AM	#3
mikenh77 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 61	I used epoxy to make more interesting and natural looking rock structures. And I deal with pests. In my 20 years in the hobby I've had AEFW, red bugs, giant polyclad flatworms, aiptasia, majano, anemones,, clauerpa, and bryopsis. Chances if they are on one rock... They are most likely other places too... So id think they are ultimately handled the same as if they weren't expoxied together. I don't epoxy everything together tough. Only a few pieces and fit them together. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

11/25/2017, 01:27 PM	#4
AlSimmons Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: California Posts: 2,482	If it's not the epoxy the corals have fused the rock together. How long has the tank been set up?

11/25/2017, 03:39 PM	#6
AlSimmons Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: California Posts: 2,482	If you do it right, which is kind of a loaded answer, you should be able to "pop" the rocks apart. (or a coral/frag) A method to the madness so to say... Go slow, kind of envision beforehand what might happen if things do go wrong. GL.

11/25/2017, 05:28 PM	#10
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	If you must use something, use reef epoxy (JB Waterweld). Silicone is a horrible choice because it will look like silicone until the end of time. Epoxy will eventually get overgrown with coraline algae and blend in nicely. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

11/25/2017, 07:09 PM	#12
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	JB Waterweld is available at any hardware store-HD/Lowes etc. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

11/25/2017, 11:28 PM	#14
Jon0807 Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 293	I only use epoxy if I want a particular rock structure or shape. Otherwise I try to arrange the rock so they are pretty much set in place with little chance of moving. __________________ 40g breeder DT, 40g breeder sump

11/25/2017, 11:35 PM	#15
JUNBUG361 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Antioch,CALIFORNIA Posts: 1,091	No epoxy or pins used here

11/26/2017, 08:18 AM	#16
SereneAquatic Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Middle TN Posts: 200	Thank you all for the feedback. We've taken your advice into account (this thread and the other that I posted because the other one had disappeared... (I guess I was 'quarantined for a minute too!) and have decided to do a little chipping/chiseling on the rocks at their contact points to get more surface area touching (friction) and only do a tiny bit of aquarium putty to hold the upper part of the bridges. They dont want to move much as it is, and the rocks are pretty large and heavy so we can't imagine how a fish, or even ourselves, could move them accidentally. This also ended up being a life saver in general because even though these rocks are heavy and dense, there are enough holes, crevices, tunnels, etc to make using the pins very difficult. We were struggling to find a solid enough place to drill for pins and were striking out. This makes it much easier. We are also considering gluing/epoxying a 2" deep acrylic block UNDER each of the two large base rocks for the primary bridge. There are really neat swim through caves that would probably disappear once the sand is in. We want the structure to sit on the glass... but dont want to lose the height of the structure that we have on the table we're building on. In this way, we can use the acrylic blocks to stabilize the structure and then add the sand on top of it so it LOOKS like the rocks are sitting on top of the sand. If we ever have to take them out, we push the sand aside and it would come out together (block and stone). Any reason we shouldn't do that? __________________ Build Thread: "A new reefer... a new tank. What could go wrong?" Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 425 XL Deluxe, Nano Max, 55g Observation, 20g QT

11/26/2017, 04:05 PM	#17
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	For me it's a moot point. On the one hand, my rocks are 90% dry laid. On the other hand, in almost 15 years I have never felt the need to disassemble the rock structures in my tank. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.