Tampa Bay Saltwater

[timster]

Hi, I am looking to start a new saltwater tank, I was wondering what everyone thought of the Tampa Bay Saltwater complete package? I saw their subform, but theres very few posts in there. The tank will be 75 gallons, with a 21 gallon sump. Will be going with beginner corals / fish for now, undecided on as of so far. Thanks!

[Ron Reefman]

If you are doing a tank where it's kind of 'anything goes', then this live rock is great as it comes with all kinds of stuff on it, including a lot of stuff you may not want if you are looking to have a pest free aquarium.

I was doing a 2'x4'x14" shallow reef for only locally collected stuff (Gulf of Mexico and Florida Keys). So I bought some TBS live rock. It came with some sponges (which die off over the first 2 to 8 weeks, lots of algae (which went crazy and over ran the entire tank in no time).

The stuff that is good about TBS LR that is good, is really good. The stuff that is bad can be really bad. I'd never buy it again, but then I like to control what goes in my tanks (all 4 of them).

[hijinks]

If you are new to the hobby I'd consider going dry rock and taking longer to cure it. It can be rough to start off with unwanted pests in your tank and lead you to not care about your tank after 6-8 months and give up.

The added bonus of dry rock is it helps you understand that waiting and going slow is a big part of a successful tank.

[liverock]

The Package is geared for newbies...do some reading here

http://tbsaltwater.com/testimonials/index.html

[Dmorty217]

I have received rock from Richard a few times before. Best liverock available and absolutely full of life.

[saf1]

Best stuff on the planet. I'm not a confirmed buyer but reading over the years and exchanging emails with Richard, it is the real deal. There are pros and cons to anything in life and the rock he offers is no different. Read the link he posted, do a couple searches here on the forums, and you will get an idea of what you get.

Personally speaking if you have the budget for it, it really is the real deal. For me, with two in college, it isn't an option. It makes me wish I bought a smaller thank for my upgrade because filling up 240 gallons with it is a bit pricy. But really do yourself a favor and read about it. It is a good option and environmental friendly which is rare these days.

[nycman]

I did between 200-300 lbs in June and July, with the "package". Rock looks great. Tank cycled near immediately. I never got a reading of Ammonia, Nitrite or Nitrate > zero. Imagine that. Now for the cons....the hitchhikers. I got at least 8 purple urchins, which all grew to golf ball size in a matter of weeks. These are easy to remove. I got copods that killed at least two fish, but the colony does not survive for long. So I would recommend waiting a few months before adding fish. I also have removed two mantis shrimp thus far, and there is one still in the tank. As they grow, they get more brave and become easier to catch. I caught both with long tweezers. It is actually not that difficult. In both cases I caught the shrimp within a day or two of seeing it in the tank. The third one I just noticed yesterday. There are a ton of small crabs - stone crabs and gorilla crabs on the rock. They fall off when you remove the rocks from the boxes of water, but not all of them. I have removed 2 gorilla crabs from my tank that are 6 legged terrors. I caught the second one today. You pull them out (again with tweezers) and they hold on the the rock and the rock comes out with the crab - that is how strong they are. Finally, there is a pistol shrimp that I see occasionally but have no plans to remove. Other than losing a bunch of clean up crew, with the exception of the copods, these hitchhikers posed little to no risk to my fish and corals, at least from what I can tell. My original bristle stars, sea cucs, and peppermint shrimp from the "package" appear to still be alive.

[saf1]

Originally Posted by nycman

I did between 200-300 lbs in June and July, with the "package". Rock looks great. Tank cycled near immediately. I never got a reading of Ammonia, Nitrite or Nitrate > zero. Imagine that. Now for the cons....the hitchhikers. I got at least 8 purple urchins, which all grew to golf ball size in a matter of weeks. These are easy to remove. I got copods that killed at least two fish, but the colony does not survive for long. So I would recommend waiting a few months before adding fish. I also have removed two mantis shrimp thus far, and there is one still in the tank. As they grow, they get more brave and become easier to catch. I caught both with long tweezers. It is actually not that difficult. In both cases I caught the shrimp within a day or two of seeing it in the tank. The third one I just noticed yesterday. There are a ton of small crabs - stone crabs and gorilla crabs on the rock. They fall off when you remove the rocks from the boxes of water, but not all of them. I have removed 2 gorilla crabs from my tank that are 6 legged terrors. I caught the second one today. You pull them out (again with tweezers) and they hold on the the rock and the rock comes out with the crab - that is how strong they are. Finally, there is a pistol shrimp that I see occasionally but have no plans to remove. Other than losing a bunch of clean up crew, with the exception of the copods, these hitchhikers posed little to no risk to my fish and corals, at least from what I can tell. My original bristle stars, sea cucs, and peppermint shrimp from the "package" appear to still be alive.

Nice elevator pitch, well said. Honestly.

[nycman]

There are ample posting of the difficulty of removing mantis shrimp from an aquarium with a lot of reef rock/hiding places. I caught two relatively quickly with my hands and a long set of tweezers. There is a method to it. Part one is food in the tank... Part two is hovering over them with the long tweezers. They seem to not have good vertical vision, esp. when on the search for food (horizontal). And then when they are on the open sand, away from the rock, you go for it... Grab them by the tail. Must be amazingly fast and ok with splashing a lot of water.

[Easy E]

I too was very happy with the rock I got from TBS. After 5 years in my tank, I still occasionally see critters I've never seen before. Right now I'm experiencing a population explosion of mini serpent stars, which I hadn't seen any of up until about a year ago. The only real problem I had was gorilla crabs. There were a whole bunch of them, and one was big enough to kill almost anything. Fortunately they were fairly easy to catch and I didn't lose any fish. I just waited for them to crawl onto a rock that was easy to remove. Their instinct is to cling to the rock when you pick it up so you don't need to chase them all over the tank. I put them all in my refugium where they died off pretty quick for some reason.

Unfortunately I just checked Richard's website and it appears he is having health issues that are preventing him from going out on the boat. Therefore he is suspending sales of everything except dry rock. If you want live rock from TBS, you might have to wait a while.

[Hal]

If you are in a hurry read the recent thread about TBS in Reef Discussion. They mention a few alternatives that may be a similar product. Me personally, I'm going to wait and hope that Richard will resume operations in four months.

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by Hal

If you are in a hurry read the recent thread about TBS in Reef Discussion. They mention a few alternatives that may be a similar product. Me personally, I'm going to wait and hope that Richard will resume operations in four months.

+1 there isn't anything like it available

[Cloudburst2000]

TBS is an excellent source of live rock. I used it to start up my last tank. The rocks were full of life. Richard is currently recovering from surgery and won't be able to dive again until his recovery is complete. I am also planning on starting up a new tank. I am going to start it with dry/base rock and cycle the tank. Once Richard is all healed up, I will order a smaller 'Package' from him to seed my tank with all the good stuff. If you are willing to wait until spring/summer, Richard should be back at it by then.

[sean357]

I set up my "new" (really a move of live stock i had) tank a little over a year ago with TBS rock. Would I do it again? in a second. You'll never get such a fast cycle or a complete reef eco system as you'll get from TBS.
There are downsides, main one being bad hitchhikers like gorilla crabs. If you do TBS you'll have to be willing to deal with this. I dealt with them by going hunting with my phones' flash light and a skewer for a couple weeks after I got the rock. Its' been the most successful reef I've ever set up. A lot of people here will advocate dead rock to prevent the appearance of hitchhikers, even if you are willing to forgo the diversity of life that really makes a reef tank there are a lot risks to that too. I set up my previous tank with BRS reefsaver rock which turned out to be a phosphate leaching factory leading to uncontrollable algae growth. Much rather kill a few crabs imo.

[tonyreef]

I don't know TBS rock but reefing is slow but you will be busy, there is so much to do & all of it very rewarding. I love every aspect to it, especially bringing live rock back to health yea there will be algae for a while but the life on the rock is everywhere. You can manage the critters as long as you don't add anything other a CUC. Shoot I could almost do a live rock tank! Then the tank will come clean ready for fish and coral.
All this could not happen without a nice RO/DI filter system, it should already be installed!
livestockusa.org great rock!

[alcimedes]

I'm getting ready to potentially connect a few tanks together, was thinking of ordering some TBS rock, putting it in one of the tanks and then giving it a few months to see what all shows up.

Copepod and algae hitchhikers would be hard to keep in a single tank though in a setup where they're all plumbed together.

[Cloudburst2000]

Originally Posted by alcimedes

I'm getting ready to potentially connect a few tanks together, was thinking of ordering some TBS rock, putting it in one of the tanks and then giving it a few months to see what all shows up.

Copepod and algae hitchhikers would be hard to keep in a single tank though in a setup where they're all plumbed together.

His stuff is AMAZING. I got tons of good hitchhikers as well as some bad. I also had a hitchhiking fish...a small goby As long as you are willing to wait out the bad hitchhikers and catch them then I say go for it. I got the 10g setup for my last tank and in that it had something like five or six gorilla crabs alone as well as some bad snails. So if you get a large amount of rock expect to get LOTS of gorilla crabs I gave the crabs I caught to a friend who owned a mantis for snack time

[xycose]

I got the first half of 'the package' from him and has been very happy - but as others have said he has had to halt shipment for the next couple of months due to health issues. (thus not getting the 2nd half)

[Cloudburst2000]

Originally Posted by xycose

I got the first half of 'the package' from him and has been very happy - but as others have said he has had to halt shipment for the next couple of months due to health issues. (thus not getting the 2nd half)

Oh, that sux. What rotten timing! That is when you get all the good stuff! Is he going to send youu the rest after he starts diving again or did he give you a refund for the missed stuff?

[xycose]

He gave me a refund for the second half. I'm sure I could have waited to get the rest, but I just went ahead and ordered a clean up crew and some dry rock from live aquaria instead. I would have much preferred to get TBS live rock, but I didn't want to wait a few more months for it =/.

(BTW would highly recommend NOT ordering walt smith rock from live aquaria. broken to pieces when I got it, and there's so much paint on some of the pieces I don't see how it can be porous at all)

[on the spot]

Originally Posted by xycose

...and there's so much paint on some of the pieces...

paint?

[tonyreef]

http://livestockusa.org/index.html

Trust!

[liverock]

Ok folks....getting back at it. I have activated the webpage so orders can be placed now.

Folks that order will be shipped in the rotation as orders are received. I am still a couple of weeks out from shipping as I need to re-stock, but when you order I will let you now it was received and you are put on the list. The card will not be charged upon receipt.

I will charge your credit card a few days before shipping and contact you so we both be on the same page for delivery.

Now talk to the weather gods, as it has been the worst winter for diving I have seen in ten years!

But I am soooo ready to go diving and get the best live rock on the planet again!

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

[allendehl]

Glad you're back Richard. No need for now but we all know and appreciate what you bring to the hobby!

Good luck!

[cincyjim]

Welcome back!!!! Glad to see you had a speedy recovery!!!