really high nirates with no bioload

mechman_22 · 03/06/2018, 05:35 PM

I have a 29 gal biocube that's been set up for couple months now. I bought it set up, guy said he had it set for month or two with two eels in it. sold the eels since tank was way to small and I want to do a mantis tank/reef. i have no bio load since getting rid of the eels, but my nitrates are way to high, do 5 gal wayer change weekly, last night i did a 10gal water change to see if it would help lower nitrates at all, seems to have help a little but not as much as i woul have thought and I missing something?

sweendog87 · 03/06/2018, 06:27 PM

Sound like you have had some die off of bacteria from your live rock
Was the system set up and you brought it and had to move everything and set up again if so this is likely your issue I would add some bottle bacteria after changing nearly 80 to 100% of the water how high are they exactly

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mcgyvr · 03/06/2018, 06:30 PM

More water changes... for the most part a 50% water change will reduce nitrates by 50%..
A 10g should reduce it roughly 30% on your tank...

What are you considering "high nitrates"?

How long ago did you get rid of everything in the tank?
Have you checked for excessive piles of old/rotting detritus,etc.. in the back chambers?

Lsufan · 03/06/2018, 06:40 PM

Doing 5 gallon water changes once a week isn’t going to dramatically drop your nitrates. If your nitrate is at 50 ppm & u do a 5 gallon water change, that will only drop your nitrate to about 35 ppm or so. Then by the time u do another water change a week later it is back to where it started. If u want to lower your nitrates by water changes, I would do back to back 50% water changes. So do a 15 gallon water change one day, then do another 15 gallon water change the following day.

I suspect the high bioload of the eels had the nitrate & po4 really high & now the rocks & substrate are loaded with nutrients. It’s hard to say for sure though. The person u got the tank from may have never let it truly cycle before adding the heavy bioload, so the system has never had a chance to stabilize.

What is the actual nitrate testing? If it is really high (like 40 or 50 ppm) I would do the back to back 50 % water changes & then go from there.

mechman_22 · 03/06/2018, 06:51 PM

after the 10 gal water change last night its still reading 80-160ppm for nitrate, ph is 8.4, ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, when I bought it I brought all the water from the tank with me, I added couple pieces of dry rock, and used the same sub straight that was in the tank, the eels he had were a snow flake and yellow head moray. they have been out of the tank for about 2months. I did ad a aqua c remora pro skimmer tonight as well.

ReefkeeperZ · 03/06/2018, 07:21 PM

aragonite (sand rock etc) has an extremely high CEC capacity, cation exchange capacity, the ability to absorb and release cations like phos and nitrate, I would do a 100% water change, test the water in 48-72 hours if it's back to elevated levels do another one, and repeat until you stop getting really high nitrate readings. the rock and sand can hold onto a TON of nitrate cations. honestly I would use a cheaper fish salt for now instead of reef salt to save money until you get the trates reduced. then repeaste with a reef salt to basically restart again.

you can also pick up each rock and put it into a bucket with some of your removed tank water and balst all the crevices with a powerhead, or turkey baster to blow out as much detritus as possible, opening the flow of water through the channels will allow water to pass through the rocks easier and let the rock release the pollutants back into the water, speeding this process, if they remain blocked up flow will be slower but eventually it will work its way back out into the water column.

mechman_22 · 03/06/2018, 07:35 PM

ok i have a clean up crew that should be here thursday should i worry about them in the tank with all tge other levels being ok?

Mr. Wiggles · 03/06/2018, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefkeeperZ

aragonite (sand rock etc) has an extremely high CEC capacity, cation exchange capacity, the ability to absorb and release cations like phos and nitrate, I would do a 100% water change, test the water in 48-72 hours if it's back to elevated levels do another one, and repeat until you stop getting really high nitrate readings. the rock and sand can hold onto a TON of nitrate cations. .

Be careful here..... neither nitrate nor phosphate are cations, they are anions.

Why not put some chaeto in it and use that with the water changes to help pull the nutrients out

mechman_22 · 03/06/2018, 08:14 PM

i do have clump bigger than a soft ball in there as well

DesertReefT4r · 03/06/2018, 08:31 PM

I would pull all the rock and sand out. Clean the rock really well with fresh saltwater then cook it in a blacked out container for a month or until no3 reads 0. Toss the sand and get new sand. Cycle the tank with the new sand and clean rock. Or just let the tank stabilize and do several large water changes until no3 reads 0. By large water changes I mean 50-80% at a time.
I would also double check your test results with another test kit to verify your readings.

kybreos · 03/06/2018, 09:28 PM

Get a second opinion, try another test kit and brand.

ReefkeeperZ · 03/07/2018, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wiggles

Be careful here..... neither nitrate nor phosphate are cations, they are anions.

Why not put some chaeto in it and use that with the water changes to help pull the nutrients out

oops. you are correct. nitrates and phosphates are anions and dont bind but are usually in solution such as mulm and detritus, cec is in regards to positively charges cations. such as NH4+ which as it gets released or exchanged can be converted into nitrate by the standard nitrifying bacteria, I just really didn't want to do the long explanation but you are correct I mis-spoke. the phos tends to be built up in the sludge in the rocks, and the trapped nh4+ converts through the standard cycle. (and it's 5:30 and i'm only on my first cup of coffee now so I probably wrote some of this wrong too)

but I do stand by huge water changes are your fastest method of dropping them to a controllable level. where after you can use regular waterchanges macro algal growth etc.

It's a 30 gallon tank, why try heroics when a couple heavy water changes will pretty much solve the problem? Especially since there is currently no life in the tank, cheato can only grow and consume at a set rate (based on light cycle and strength) so it may take months to drop your nitrates perceptibly. Just my 2 cents I wouldn't want to wait 6 months when I can solve the p[roblem in a couple days and start prepping the tank.

mcgyvr · 03/07/2018, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechman_22

ok i have a clean up crew that should be here thursday should i worry about them in the tank with all tge other levels being ok?

You should fix the problem before anything goes back into the tank..
Its such a small amount of water.. Do a few large (as big as possible) water changes before the clean up crew comes..
Water changes are the best way...
Do it now... Do it..

Seriously.. Large water changes.. Nothing else will work..

mechman_22 · 03/07/2018, 06:39 AM

thanks for all the knowledge, going to do back to back water changes and see how that goes will keep yall updated thanks again

shyfish · 03/07/2018, 07:49 AM

29gals is a small tank. Id do a 95% water change draining tank down to 1inch of water

gonioporagirl · 03/07/2018, 04:51 PM

I would do more frequent water changes. If you want to get rid of the nitrate quickly i would do a larger one like 50%

sweendog87 · 03/07/2018, 06:17 PM

Like everyone has said water changes and test an hour or so after until nitrates get under at least 10 blast your power heads into the rocks and don't put anything in until nitrates are down otherwise you will likely kill the stock and therefore release more nutriets into the tank and it will start all over again if you get it right now you can save more problems in the future

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03/06/2018, 05:35 PM	#1
mechman_22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 130	really high nirates with no bioload I have a 29 gal biocube that's been set up for couple months now. I bought it set up, guy said he had it set for month or two with two eels in it. sold the eels since tank was way to small and I want to do a mantis tank/reef. i have no bio load since getting rid of the eels, but my nitrates are way to high, do 5 gal wayer change weekly, last night i did a 10gal water change to see if it would help lower nitrates at all, seems to have help a little but not as much as i woul have thought and I missing something?

03/06/2018, 06:30 PM	#3
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	More water changes... for the most part a 50% water change will reduce nitrates by 50%.. A 10g should reduce it roughly 30% on your tank... What are you considering "high nitrates"? How long ago did you get rid of everything in the tank? Have you checked for excessive piles of old/rotting detritus,etc.. in the back chambers? __________________ Who me?

03/06/2018, 07:21 PM	#6
ReefkeeperZ Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 392	aragonite (sand rock etc) has an extremely high CEC capacity, cation exchange capacity, the ability to absorb and release cations like phos and nitrate, I would do a 100% water change, test the water in 48-72 hours if it's back to elevated levels do another one, and repeat until you stop getting really high nitrate readings. the rock and sand can hold onto a TON of nitrate cations. honestly I would use a cheaper fish salt for now instead of reef salt to save money until you get the trates reduced. then repeaste with a reef salt to basically restart again. you can also pick up each rock and put it into a bucket with some of your removed tank water and balst all the crevices with a powerhead, or turkey baster to blow out as much detritus as possible, opening the flow of water through the channels will allow water to pass through the rocks easier and let the rock release the pollutants back into the water, speeding this process, if they remain blocked up flow will be slower but eventually it will work its way back out into the water column. __________________ insert witty catchphrase here

03/06/2018, 08:31 PM	#10
DesertReefT4r Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Mesa Az Posts: 771	I would pull all the rock and sand out. Clean the rock really well with fresh saltwater then cook it in a blacked out container for a month or until no3 reads 0. Toss the sand and get new sand. Cycle the tank with the new sand and clean rock. Or just let the tank stabilize and do several large water changes until no3 reads 0. By large water changes I mean 50-80% at a time. I would also double check your test results with another test kit to verify your readings. __________________ Tank history 29g tropical ,55g cichlid tank, 20H softy reef, 29g mixed reef, 20H brackish goby & puffer tank, 55g mixed reef, 6g Nanocube softy lps reef, 40B sps reef, 75g sps reef, 75g sps reef in bu Current Tank Info: 75g sps reef build in the works.

03/06/2018, 09:28 PM	#11
kybreos Snar snar Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pinellas, FL Posts: 929	Get a second opinion, try another test kit and brand. __________________ Simplify, trust me... Current Tank Info: 180 Gallon Reef, Apex, Simplicity 320 DC Skimmer, 3 Radions Gen2,1 mp40w, Jebao PP-20, 55g sump, Jebao DCP-15000

03/06/2018, 06:27 PM	#2
sweendog87 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 23	Sound like you have had some die off of bacteria from your live rock Was the system set up and you brought it and had to move everything and set up again if so this is likely your issue I would add some bottle bacteria after changing nearly 80 to 100% of the water how high are they exactly Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

03/06/2018, 06:40 PM	#4
Lsufan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 1,410	Doing 5 gallon water changes once a week isn’t going to dramatically drop your nitrates. If your nitrate is at 50 ppm & u do a 5 gallon water change, that will only drop your nitrate to about 35 ppm or so. Then by the time u do another water change a week later it is back to where it started. If u want to lower your nitrates by water changes, I would do back to back 50% water changes. So do a 15 gallon water change one day, then do another 15 gallon water change the following day. I suspect the high bioload of the eels had the nitrate & po4 really high & now the rocks & substrate are loaded with nutrients. It’s hard to say for sure though. The person u got the tank from may have never let it truly cycle before adding the heavy bioload, so the system has never had a chance to stabilize. What is the actual nitrate testing? If it is really high (like 40 or 50 ppm) I would do the back to back 50 % water changes & then go from there.

03/06/2018, 06:51 PM	#5
mechman_22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 130	after the 10 gal water change last night its still reading 80-160ppm for nitrate, ph is 8.4, ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, when I bought it I brought all the water from the tank with me, I added couple pieces of dry rock, and used the same sub straight that was in the tank, the eels he had were a snow flake and yellow head moray. they have been out of the tank for about 2months. I did ad a aqua c remora pro skimmer tonight as well.

03/06/2018, 07:35 PM	#7
mechman_22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 130	ok i have a clean up crew that should be here thursday should i worry about them in the tank with all tge other levels being ok?

03/07/2018, 06:39 AM	#14
mechman_22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 130	thanks for all the knowledge, going to do back to back water changes and see how that goes will keep yall updated thanks again

03/07/2018, 07:49 AM	#15
shyfish Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 6	29gals is a small tank. Id do a 95% water change draining tank down to 1inch of water

03/07/2018, 04:51 PM	#16
gonioporagirl Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 39	I would do more frequent water changes. If you want to get rid of the nitrate quickly i would do a larger one like 50%

03/07/2018, 06:17 PM	#17
sweendog87 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 23	Like everyone has said water changes and test an hour or so after until nitrates get under at least 10 blast your power heads into the rocks and don't put anything in until nitrates are down otherwise you will likely kill the stock and therefore release more nutriets into the tank and it will start all over again if you get it right now you can save more problems in the future Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk