Ammonia/Nitrite spike! Initial cycle completed!

[Daniel92481]

Hello Reef central, I’m new to this amazing hobby and have really been enjoying myself for the past 2 months! I have an IM fusion lagoon 25 that went through the initial cycle after about 24 days. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0. Since then, I have added a CUC consisting of 3 hermits, 5 snails, skunk cleaner shrimp, and an emerald crab. I also added 1 Banggai cardinal and 1 PJ cardinal. As for coral, I have added 3 zoa frags, small zoa rock colony, and one branching hammer frag. My parameters have been stable regarding Ammonia and Nitrite, both zero until last night. My ammonia is reading 0.5 and Nitrite 0.25. Should I be worried? LFS encourages me to add a package of pods to the system after I performed a 5 gallon/25% water change. I feel like the pods are what’s causing this! Somebody please help! Current parameters...Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate 0, Calcium 420, dKH 10, Phosphates 0.25, salinity 32-35PPT, currently 1.024, and temp 78.5.

[nereefpat]

Are you sure the tank cycled? You shouldn't have zero nitrates (unless you changed all the water after cycle).

The ammonia will be an issue. Look into water changes and/or prime.

[Daniel92481]

Sorry, I had left out my PH. It has been stable at 8.2 for some time now, currently at 7.8. Any information would be greater appreciated.

[Daniel92481]

I’m pretty sure it did. I went through an ammonia spike with a fish less cycle, ghost feeding the tank with mysis/brine, had a Nitrite soike, then both back to zero and stayed at 0 for over a month. I had brown algae everywhere before CUC. No green algae though. LFS said I don’t necessarily need to see green algae before it’s cycled. I had 5 nitrates at first but nothing for a while now. I am using filter floss and carbon media.

[nereefpat]

I forgot to ask how you are measuring ammonia. Some kits, like API ammonia, can give a bit of a false positive of 0.25.

If you do have 0.5 ammonia, then water changes and or/prime should be used.

[Daniel92481]

Yes, I have been using the infamous API kits since day one. Will the water change be detrimental if I just did one two days ago? Another 25%? I realize that ammonia and nitrite are toxic so it shouldn’t hurt to do one, right? Could this be a mini cycle and will adjust eventually? I don’t want to hurt my fish!

[ReefWreak]

Originally Posted by Daniel92481

Yes, I have been using the infamous API kits since day one. Will the water change be detrimental if I just did one two days ago? Another 25%? I realize that ammonia and nitrite are toxic so it shouldn’t hurt to do one, right? Could this be a mini cycle and will adjust eventually? I don’t want to hurt my fish!

Rule #1, even more important than ammonia and nitrate toxicity, is that bad things happen quickly, good things happen slowly.

Be very careful with water changes, as water changes can cause more stress than a little bit of ammonia (particularly if you're not comfortable with your test kits).

Give the tank a day or two, keep measuring ammonia and nitrate, and if ammonia stays high, then you can do a water change (or I'd even recommend having more flow/oxygenation). Ph doesn't matter, I wouldn't waste my time testing it.

If ammonia gets bad (or you should have a bottle on hand in case of emergencies anyway - I learned this the hard way and lost my whole tank), you should go pick up a bottle of Seachem Prime from a local pet shop.

It sounds like you added a lot of livestock all at once after the cycle was complete? Even with a cycled tank, you need to be slow about adding livestock, particularly in a smaller tank. Even with ghost feeding and ammonia cycling, the bio filter still has to adjust and catch up each time a new input is added to the system.

Pods will not cause an ammonia spike, but phytoplankton to feed them will. Pods don't need to be fed in a mature tank and don't impact parameters.

[ReefWreak]

Also, API test kits are fine. The ammonia will be hazy yellow if there is no ammonia. Greenish tint indicates ammonia. The level of ammonia may come and go, but as long as its consistently mostly yellow and not green, you're okay. I thought that the tests were always kind of wonky until I actually had an ammonia tank meltdown, and I assure you, the green is real, and you'll KNOW. If you're nitpicking between yellow and green, don't worry about it.

[mcgyvr]

If this was after adding the pods to the tank then this isn't abnormal really at all... and all will be just fine in a small amount of time..

The water in those pods packages are just stagnant and likely had elevated levels of ammonia,etc... the pods have been ok due to the low ph of the sealed package reducing ammonia toxicity issues.. blah blah...
all is fine.. Your system just got a bit of a shock and will recover on its own..

[Daniel92481]

All of y’all are great! I appreciate the insight on all of this as there is a wealth of info out there to be confused with! I knew I could count on reefcentral. I’ll be picking up a bottle of prime today, and will test the levels again before I add any. I probably did add too much livestock too soon. I need to be more patient and let my biological filter stabilize. I got ancy after staring at a dark, empty tank for a month. I have to admit. I’ll keep testing the waters and make adjustments if I need to. The pods in a bag did look pretty disgusting. I was hesitant about putting them in my crystal clear tank lol. I know they’re beneficial though, as I would like a red starfish in the next 6 months. The LFS gave me a bottle of food for the pods but when should I feed them? Should I wait until I’m at Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0? My cardinals are doing great so far even with the spiking levels. No distress noted.

[mcgyvr]

There is really no need to add food for the pods IMO...
If you were intending on culturing pods then ok but doesn't sound like you are..

Your LFS just made an extra sale..

[Daniel92481]

Dang, ok then. He seen me coming lol. I added them to the main display because I haven’t set up my refugium yet. I shouldn’t have to ever add them again right? They repopulate on their own?

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by Daniel92481

Dang, ok then. He seen me coming lol. I added them to the main display because I haven’t set up my refugium yet. I shouldn’t have to ever add them again right? They repopulate on their own?

yes..yes and yes

In general if you are adding corals (and not extensively dipping them) or started with live rock,etc.. you really don't need to add pods at all as they will come in on those corals/rock usually.. And really unless you have a creature that eats pods (wrasses,etc..) then you don't need pods at all either..

[Daniel92481]

Lol well, this is good info. When I get home later I’m going to test these levels again to see where I’m at. I will definitely post an update ASAP. Stay tuned...please haha

[nereefpat]

No doubt it's from adding a bunch at once, and it probably will pass.

0.5ppm ammonia still worries me a little bit. Keep an eye on it.

[Daniel92481]

Update: Just got home from work, Ammonia holding at 0.5, Nitrite spike to 2.0, added 1/2 capful Seachem Prime. All livestock looks healthy. I decided not to feed them tonight. Seems like a mini cycle is happening with the Nitrite spiking higher. Will test again in the AM before work!

[Daniel92481]

Good morning everyone, I tested again this morning before work. Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 2.0. I added another 1/2 capful of Seachem prime. Will keep monitoring and testing until I see these levels stabilize. Can somebody tell me how often the filter floss needs to be changed out? I have 2 media baskets with it. I changed one out a week ago. I didn’t want to change them both at once. The idea is to have them saturated with brown gunk, or should I keep them as clean as possible, changing them often?

[on the spot]

Originally Posted by Daniel92481

I tested again this morning before work. Ammonia 0.5...

That's a bit troubling. with a proper bacterial filter it should be rare to nearly impossible to actually test for ammonia. that it's still present suggests you have moved to quickly. You were ghost feeding - just once?
would you give a more precise timeline on your additions -

Originally Posted by Daniel92481

Can somebody tell me how often the filter floss needs to be changed out?..
should I keep them as clean as possible, changing them often?

yes-change them often.

What salt are you using? when was your last water change?
next time you mix a batch test that water for ammonia.

[Daniel92481]

I ghost fed every 2 to 3 days with frozen mysis/brine. I saw an ammonia spike, Nitrite spike, but the highest nitrate I had was 5PPM. Ammonia and Nitrite were both at 0 for over a month. I added a CUC, one Banggai cardinal, and a small zoa colony in one week. The next week I added a PJ cardinal and 2 zoa frags, then a few days later l, I added a hammer and zoa frag. I realize that I probably put too much too quick in a small system, however, I also added some pods after I did my second 25% water change on 4-5-18 and that’s when I seen the ammonia and Nitrite spike. All my parameters were great until the pod addition. I really think it was the stagnant water which the pods were in that caused this, along with the addition of livestock too quickly. I am using Fritz aquatics reef pro salt mix with RO/DI water. I will change the filter floss more often, just didn’t want to mess up anything but looks like I might have done that already. All livestock seems healthy at this point. Here is a breakdown of my entire process for anyone who is interested. Thank you for the info!

REEF TANK SETUP 2/26/18

Day 1 cycle-salinity 35PPT, introduced bacteria
Day 2 cycle-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
Day 3 cycle-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
Day 4 cycle-salinity 30PPT, PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
Day 5 cycle-adjusted salinity to 35PPT, added 1oz bacteria, PH 8.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
Day 6 cycle-salinity 36PPT/1.026

3-4-18
**NO CHANGES NOTED REGARDING PARAMETERS...TESTING WILL RESUME TO A NEW 3 DAY SCHEDULE 3-7-18**

Day 9 cycle-salinity 36PPT, PH 8.0, Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Added 1 frozen brine shrimp
Day 10 cycle-PH 8.0, Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0, salinity 35PPT

**NITRATE WILL NOT BE TESTED UNTIL RISE IN NITRITE IS OBSERVED**

Day 11 cycle-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 0, added 2oz bacteria, added 1 frozen brine shrimp
Day 12 cycle-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 1.0, salinity 34PPT
Day 13 cycle-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 2.0
Day 14 cycle-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 5.0, salinity 35PPT, added 1 frozen brine shrimp, protein skimmer added 3/12/18
Day 15 cycle-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 5.0,
Day 16 cycle-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.1, Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate 5.0
Day 17 cycle-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 5.0

**NITRATE WILL BE TESTED EVERY 4 DAYS**

Day 18 cycle-PH 8.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 5.0, Salinity 32PPT/1.024
Day 19 cycle-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 5.0, Salinity 35PPT/1.026
Day 20 cycle-added 1oz bacteria, PH-8.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 5.0, Nitrate 5.0, added filter floss
Day 21 cycle-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 5.0
Day 22 cycle-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 1.0
Day 23 cycle-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.5, salinity 33PPT/1.025
Day 24 cycle-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0

**TANK OFFICIALLY CYCLED 3-23-18 AFTER 24 DAYS REGARDING PARAMETERS**

**REEF PARAMETER TESTING BEGINS 3-24-18**

DAY 25-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Calcium 380, dKH 10, Phosphates 0.25
Day 26-PH 7.8, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0
Day 27-first 25% water change, added 1oz bacteria, changed out filter floss, added 1 packet Chemipure Blue, PH-8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Calcium 420, dKH 10, Phosphates 0.25, salinity 35PPT/1.026
Day 28- One Cardinal fish added, 3 snails, 3 hermits, skunk cleaner shrimp, and Zoa colony
PH-8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Phosphates 0.25
Day 29- NTP-NO TEST PERFORMED
Day 30-PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Phosphates 0.25, salinity 32PPT/1.024, added PJ cardinal fish, emerald crab, 2 snails, and 2 zoa frags

3-31-18-salinity 34PPT/1.025, changed filter floss, Changed Chemipure Blue, added reef spec carbon to pump chamber

4-2-18-salinity 35PPT/1.026, PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Phosphates 0.25
4-4-18-added branching hammer, bam bam zoas
4-5-18-25% water change, added pods, PH 7.8, Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate 0, Calcium 420, dKH 10, Phosphates 0.25, salinity 32PPT/1.024

UPDATE: 21:09 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0.25, added 1oz bacteria
UPDATE 2: 4-6-18- Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 2.0, added Seachem Prime 1/2 capful
UPDATE 3: 4-7-18- Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 2.0, added Seachem Prime 1/2 capful