Managing PH Swings

malx · 04/19/2018, 05:08 PM

Hi, Everyone.

So on my SPS tank I get PH swings from 7.97 to 8.23. Although I don't feel that is terrible, when reviewing the depletion of my CO2 Scubber media, which is minimal at best, I realized that there is something inherintly wrong with how I have this set up and it's really helping in the evening time. I'd like to post some info about my gear and take some suggestions on how to modify this.

I have a Vertex CA Reactor I use to maintain Alk between 6.7 and 7.5
I have PLENTY of surface movement
I have ample ventilation in the room where the tank is, and the Fan to my AC is always drawing fresh air into my apartment
I have a Vertex Omega 150 Skimmer
Hooped up to that Skimmer i have an airline that goes to a Y fitting. That Y fitting goes to either a Apex Soleniod valve or a CO2 scrubber reactor thing.

This is where I got that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1iY-Vz3-V4

I thought that maybe I had a leak someplace and I did my best to tighten up all of the fittings I possibly could.

Tonight before I got to bed, I'm going to attach the scrubber directly to the skimmer to see if that makes a difference at night.

Open to ideas.

Thanks,
Joey

laverda · 04/19/2018, 10:42 PM

Check out the chemistry forums here and on the reef site with a 2 in it for some ideas. You did not say what your ALK and Mag levels are at. They play a big room in how much you PH swings. System with Calcium reactors are notorious for running lower PH although yours is not bad. I for one turn on my Refugium and ATS as the tank lights dim. A little tweaking can make a fair difference. This helps a some about .05-.10. I dose Randy’s 2 part. Like you I want to do I prefer not to have such big PH swings. I reduced my ALK dosing slightly and I just set up a second doser to dose a little extra ALK when my PH starts to drop. My PH swing last night saw just .05. I really did not expect to get so close. We will see what happens the next few nights.

FullBoreReefer · 04/19/2018, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malx

Hi, Everyone.

So on my SPS tank I get PH swings from 7.97 to 8.23. Although I don't feel that is terrible, when reviewing the depletion of my CO2 Scubber media, which is minimal at best, I realized that there is something inherintly wrong with how I have this set up and it's really helping in the evening time. I'd like to post some info about my gear and take some suggestions on how to modify this.

I have a Vertex CA Reactor I use to maintain Alk between 6.7 and 7.5
I have PLENTY of surface movement
I have ample ventilation in the room where the tank is, and the Fan to my AC is always drawing fresh air into my apartment
I have a Vertex Omega 150 Skimmer
Hooped up to that Skimmer i have an airline that goes to a Y fitting. That Y fitting goes to either a Apex Soleniod valve or a CO2 scrubber reactor thing.

This is where I got that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1iY-Vz3-V4

I thought that maybe I had a leak someplace and I did my best to tighten up all of the fittings I possibly could.

Tonight before I got to bed, I'm going to attach the scrubber directly to the skimmer to see if that makes a difference at night.

Open to ideas.

Thanks,
Joey

Are you currently using your apex for dosing? If so here’s a trick I use, but it will require 2 dosers for ALK, and one CAL. Although I don’t technically chase ph, as technically you shouldn’t, I do have a way to minimize it while continuing normal dosing, I just take advantage of what the chemical reaction does.

Meaning, if my ph is below 8.05 at the time of my normal ALK dosing, which I dose every 30mins, then my apex will use my Sodium Carbonate doser for my ALK dose. Sodium Carbonate raises ph temporarily.

Or, if my ph is above 8.04 at the time of my normal ALK dosing, my apex will use my Sodium Bicarbonate doser for my ALK dose. Sodium Bicarbonate does NOT raise or lower ph.

Calcium is then dosed 15mins later. Every 30mins as well.

So no I don’t chase my ph, I only take advantage of what a certain chemical does in relation to my normal dosing.

homer1475 · 04/20/2018, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullBoreReefer

Are you currently using your apex for dosing? If so here’s a trick I use, but it will require 2 dosers for ALK, and one CAL. Although I don’t technically chase ph, as technically you shouldn’t, I do have a way to minimize it while continuing normal dosing, I just take advantage of what the chemical reaction does.

Meaning, if my ph is below 8.05 at the time of my normal ALK dosing, which I dose every 30mins, then my apex will use my Sodium Carbonate doser for my ALK dose. Sodium Carbonate raises ph temporarily.

Or, if my ph is above 8.04 at the time of my normal ALK dosing, my apex will use my Sodium Bicarbonate doser for my ALK dose. Sodium Bicarbonate does NOT raise or lower ph.

Calcium is then dosed 15mins later. Every 30mins as well.

So no I don’t chase my ph, I only take advantage of what a certain chemical does in relation to my normal dosing.

Very interesting idea, how on earth do you program the apex to use the proper doser though? And I'm going to assume you use separate dosers for each product. Not one stand alone unit like a kamoer or jebao or something?

malx · 04/20/2018, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullBoreReefer

Are you currently using your apex for dosing? If so here’s a trick I use, but it will require 2 dosers for ALK, and one CAL. Although I don’t technically chase ph, as technically you shouldn’t, I do have a way to minimize it while continuing normal dosing, I just take advantage of what the chemical reaction does.

Meaning, if my ph is below 8.05 at the time of my normal ALK dosing, which I dose every 30mins, then my apex will use my Sodium Carbonate doser for my ALK dose. Sodium Carbonate raises ph temporarily.

Or, if my ph is above 8.04 at the time of my normal ALK dosing, my apex will use my Sodium Bicarbonate doser for my ALK dose. Sodium Bicarbonate does NOT raise or lower ph.

Calcium is then dosed 15mins later. Every 30mins as well.

So no I don’t chase my ph, I only take advantage of what a certain chemical does in relation to my normal dosing.

I have a Ca Reactor but that’s a good trick if I used a doser for Alk/Ca

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FullBoreReefer · 04/20/2018, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homer1475

Very interesting idea, how on earth do you program the apex to use the proper doser though? And I'm going to assume you use separate dosers for each product. Not one stand alone unit like a kamoer or jebao or something?

I use 3 BRS 1.1ml dosers. And use my Apex to control them.

Outlet: ALK-Carb (Sodium Carbonate)

Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/000:30/029:30 Then ON
If pH > 8.04 Then OFF

Outlet: ALK-Bicarb (Sodium Bicarbonate)
Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/000:30/029:30 Then ON
If pH < 8.05 Then OFF

And then obviously a separate doser for calcium.

homer1475 · 04/20/2018, 12:41 AM

hmm.....
I have 3 1.1 dosers sitting around, and I'm really beginning to hate my current standalone doser.........Might have to give this a shot and see what happens.

Thanks

FullBoreReefer · 04/20/2018, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homer1475

hmm.....
I have 3 1.1 dosers sitting around, and I'm really beginning to hate my current standalone doser.........Might have to give this a shot and see what happens.

Thanks

Obviously change the ph numbers for different ranges. And the OSC for your needed amounts.

Here is my 7day graph. Note the “big” dip, my ALK was creeping up to 8.75 from 8.5 so I turned off my ALK dosing for 24hrs. You can see the corresponding dip in ph.

Otherwise I’m very stable, even with my intervention causing a dip, I still didnt fluctuate more than 0.17 all week! Low:8.01 Max:8.18 Avg:8.09

Sk8r · 04/20/2018, 08:53 AM

PH in reef tanks does fluctuate. The important reading to track is alkalinity: I keep mine at 8.3, mg at 1350, (which stabilizes the alk) and calcium at 420 (using kalk in the topoff water).

Indymann99 · 04/20/2018, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

PH in reef tanks does fluctuate. The important reading to track is alkalinity: I keep mine at 8.3, mg at 1350, (which stabilizes the alk) and calcium at 420 (using kalk in the topoff water).

This

malx · 04/29/2018, 10:43 AM

Alright everyone. So I got my PH spike handled now that my diatoms are gone. Now I’m having the opposite problem. PH is swinging from about 8.2 to 7.67 at night. Tankmates are fine but I can tell that my Carpet Anemone does not like it and I feel it’s going to wear him down over time. Alk is about 8. I tried buffing the tank with a little soda ash but after PH goes right back to where it was literally in hours and gets back on its swing cycle like clockwork.

So, I tried getting an airstone I put in the sump to come on when PH drops below 8 and shuts off when the PH goes back above 8.1 (Apex Controller) It literally made no difference at all. My main display down the hallway fluctuates from about 8.2 to 8.

I also tried opening the balcony door next to the tank for a few hours, no difference, and my A/C always has the fan running, No change as well.

This is a 25g system with two small clownfish. Where the hell is all this CO2 coming from at night?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/19/2018, 05:08 PM	#1
malx Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,324	Managing PH Swings Hi, Everyone. So on my SPS tank I get PH swings from 7.97 to 8.23. Although I don't feel that is terrible, when reviewing the depletion of my CO2 Scubber media, which is minimal at best, I realized that there is something inherintly wrong with how I have this set up and it's really helping in the evening time. I'd like to post some info about my gear and take some suggestions on how to modify this. I have a Vertex CA Reactor I use to maintain Alk between 6.7 and 7.5 I have PLENTY of surface movement I have ample ventilation in the room where the tank is, and the Fan to my AC is always drawing fresh air into my apartment I have a Vertex Omega 150 Skimmer Hooped up to that Skimmer i have an airline that goes to a Y fitting. That Y fitting goes to either a Apex Soleniod valve or a CO2 scrubber reactor thing. This is where I got that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1iY-Vz3-V4 I thought that maybe I had a leak someplace and I did my best to tighten up all of the fittings I possibly could. Tonight before I got to bed, I'm going to attach the scrubber directly to the skimmer to see if that makes a difference at night. Open to ideas. Thanks, Joey

04/19/2018, 10:42 PM	#2
laverda Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,902	Check out the chemistry forums here and on the reef site with a 2 in it for some ideas. You did not say what your ALK and Mag levels are at. They play a big room in how much you PH swings. System with Calcium reactors are notorious for running lower PH although yours is not bad. I for one turn on my Refugium and ATS as the tank lights dim. A little tweaking can make a fair difference. This helps a some about .05-.10. I dose Randy’s 2 part. Like you I want to do I prefer not to have such big PH swings. I reduced my ALK dosing slightly and I just set up a second doser to dose a little extra ALK when my PH starts to drop. My PH swing last night saw just .05. I really did not expect to get so close. We will see what happens the next few nights. __________________ 240G mixed reef, 29G SPS/LPS clam tank, 50G mixed reef Current Tank Info: 300g mixed reef, 50g cube

04/20/2018, 12:41 AM	#7
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	hmm..... I have 3 1.1 dosers sitting around, and I'm really beginning to hate my current standalone doser.........Might have to give this a shot and see what happens. Thanks __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

04/20/2018, 08:53 AM	#9
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	PH in reef tanks does fluctuate. The important reading to track is alkalinity: I keep mine at 8.3, mg at 1350, (which stabilizes the alk) and calcium at 420 (using kalk in the topoff water). __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/29/2018, 10:43 AM	#11
malx Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,324	Alright everyone. So I got my PH spike handled now that my diatoms are gone. Now I’m having the opposite problem. PH is swinging from about 8.2 to 7.67 at night. Tankmates are fine but I can tell that my Carpet Anemone does not like it and I feel it’s going to wear him down over time. Alk is about 8. I tried buffing the tank with a little soda ash but after PH goes right back to where it was literally in hours and gets back on its swing cycle like clockwork. So, I tried getting an airstone I put in the sump to come on when PH drops below 8 and shuts off when the PH goes back above 8.1 (Apex Controller) It literally made no difference at all. My main display down the hallway fluctuates from about 8.2 to 8. I also tried opening the balcony door next to the tank for a few hours, no difference, and my A/C always has the fan running, No change as well. This is a 25g system with two small clownfish. Where the hell is all this CO2 coming from at night? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk