Reef ?

[Nickyfish]

Hey Guy I am cycling a new 120 gallon reef.
the only thing in the tank is a 4-5" porcupine puffer
i do not plan on keeping after the cycle

A buddy of mine gave me 12 small very small
hermits and turbo snails

will he eat them on me ??

I read different answers

I also have a fish tank with a large clown (tomato) and 2 hawks (cherry)
and a powder blue tang

am i better putting them in the fish tank till the puffer gone

also after I cycle can a

Cherry Hawk
Powder blue tang
flame angel
Lg Tom clown

go in the reef ???

Thanks

Nick

[mcgyvr]

The puffer can certainly eat inverts in an aquarium if it wants to..

Fish to fish compatibility chart..
https://www.liveaquaria.com/general/...lity_chart.cfm
Find your fish to check reef compatibility..
https://www.liveaquaria.com/category/15/

[Nickyfish]

thanks

[Bruce51]

Your cycling a tank with a fish? Shame on you

[Pslreefer]

Why in the world are you cycling using porcy puffer???? Just plain ignorance.

[Icewing726]

Bruce51 and Pslreefer, shame on both of you. You all yell at this guy/gal without offering any learning opportunity... probably because you can't offer anything real to your opinions which is all they are at this point in time.

Puffers are tough, and I know for a fact they will nip on serpent stars... thats why I got rid of the only one I've ever owned years and years ago.

I would definently recommend bio spira which you can get on amazon as one location if you have a fish in there. 15 minutes before and all you'll see is nitrates (flame me if you want but I have a tank full and no ammonia no nitrites and nitrates are on the decline thanks to my prestocked refugium).

Either way, good luck with your tank. Keep asking questions, this community has several that will take the time to explain to you what your doing wrong rather then just judging you.... seriously feels like catholic answers forum in here half the time, not sure why a priest hasn't regulated that place yet... but i digress...

[homer1475]

Originally Posted by Icewing726

Bruce51 and Pslreefer, shame on both of you. You all yell at this guy/gal without offering any learning opportunity... probably because you can't offer anything real to your opinions which is all they are at this point in time.

Puffers are tough, and I know for a fact they will nip on serpent stars... thats why I got rid of the only one I've ever owned years and years ago.

I would definently recommend bio spira which you can get on amazon as one location if you have a fish in there. 15 minutes before and all you'll see is nitrates (flame me if you want but I have a tank full and no ammonia no nitrites and nitrates are on the decline thanks to my prestocked refugium).

Either way, good luck with your tank. Keep asking questions, this community has several that will take the time to explain to you what your doing wrong rather then just judging you.... seriously feels like catholic answers forum in here half the time, not sure why a priest hasn't regulated that place yet... but i digress...

And what exactly did you offer here for advice? Add a bottle of bacteria that may work? Yeah OK thats called the pot calling the kettle black. We don't sugar coat things over here for newbies. Sometimes the only way to get through to this new generation is to be hard and stern. If you don't like it, don't reply.

Ok that tongue lashing is over lets move onto the OP, because I do offer advice after telling someone what they did was done wrong.

lets start with the basics.

Cycling a tank with a live fish is an old and archaic way to cycle a tank. There are plenty of products out there to "jump start your cycle". Things like biospira, Dr. Tims one and only, etc. All you need to do is add an ammonia source. Whether that be small raw shrimp, pinch of flake food, pure ammonia from a bottle, whatever floats your boat. All you need is some ammonia to get things going.

Once you see an ammonia spike, it will then lower to 0 and nitrites start to raise. Once nitrites drop to 0 nitrates will rise. Do a large water change to rid the tank of the nitrates, then start small with 1 fish or a CUC crew. Then slowly(read like 1 a week) you can start to populate the tank with more fish and/or corals.

FYI most all of those fish you listed are reef safe, with the exception of the hawk. While it is "reef safe", it will more then likely kill and eat any invert in the tank(they really like ornamental shrimp). Also angels are hit or miss, some people have never had an issue, and some see them nip at corals. Put in your reef at your own risk.

[mcgyvr]

Post 4,5,6,7... delete... gosh darnit.. Why isnt this button working.. delete... DELETE....DELETE.... ugh..

[homer1475]

And whats wrong with my post?

I'm the only one in this thread that offered solid advice.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by homer1475

And whats wrong with my post?

I'm the only one in this thread that offered solid advice.

Thats your opinion..

One could see it as that you just suggested to blindly ammonia to the tank without any mention of proper amounts or even instructions to remove said fish before doing so..
The OP may be totally aware of how to and why we cycle a tank. They chose to use a fish as their ammonia source.

While I have cautioned against "fish cycles" in the past when done properly I really don't see an issue with it and thats why I didn't mention anything in my post.. I also will happily cut a tree down in my yard if I want to, I drive a vehicle that gets under 15 miles to the gallon and don't have a problem with real fur coats either

Then your tongue lashing blah blah was a little uncalled for too IMO.. Their advice to add a bottled bacteria product could be seen as just as valid as yours.. It just may not be your chosen way..
Quite frankly given the situation here I find that to be better advice than yours..
Of course thats my opinion.

[Nickyfish]

Originally Posted by Pslreefer

Why in the world are you cycling using porcy puffer???? Just plain ignorance.

I do not know why u say that I have cycle many tanks with a puffer or trigger or lion fish or damsel

they are very strong fish

and I had said I am not keeping him in the reef once the cycle comes down I will then put him back in the fish tank he came from

I know I am not the first one to cycle with a strong fish

but maybe you are plain ignorant

[sirclintler]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

The puffer can certainly eat inverts in an aquarium if it wants to..

Fish to fish compatibility chart..
https://www.liveaquaria.com/general/...lity_chart.cfm
Find your fish to check reef compatibility..
https://www.liveaquaria.com/category/15/

So to answer your question im with this guy^^^^^^

[Anemone]

Here at Reef Central, we believe that dialogs between participants should be conducted in a friendly and helpful manner. If you disagree with a posting, please express yourself in a way that is conducive to further constructive dialog. Conversely, when you post on any given subject, you must be willing to accept constructive criticism without posting a hostile or inflammatory response. Personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated. Please work to insure that Reef Central remains a friendly and flame free site where everyone, especially newcomers, can feel free to post questions without fear of being unfairly criticized. Thank you for your cooperation.

Think before you post. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism (without bashing) or don't post. Simple.

Kevin

[Nickyfish]

I understand and I came looking for help not to be insulted or start a argument. How is some guy telling me i am ignorant for cycling my tank with a puffer or a fish when i been doing it for over 20 years. This is my first time I am ever doing reef and I came here to meet people and learn not to be called a ignorant person

EDITED - this comment was unnecessary.

Lets close this thread to the people who tried to help thank you very much

for people who want to insult when they dont know crap. Just kill your own fish

[Pslreefer]

Ya back in the old days we used to use fish to cycle a tank. Typically damsels or chromis, but in today’s world it’s just unacceptable when there are a plethora of other options that don’t cause unnecessary distress to a live animal.

You could use the ole shrimp method or any raw seafood selections. I used conch from the Bahamas to cycle my tank as the relatives brought it over.

You can use Dr. Tim’s ammonia it has step by step instructions.

[Nickyfish]

I guess im a old ignorant fool than

LOL LOL

only kidding I understand there are newer methods and I can totally understand the reason of its a risk to the fish but do not call me stupid like it wont work or i do not know what im doing

i admit with reed i have no idea what i am doing this is my first tank reef

thanks u for good solid advice

im going to just eat the puffer than

[teddscau]

So many special people on here -_-. I know it's already been said, but you can do a lot more good by explaining why it's better to use the fishless method instead. I've never cycled a saltwater tank before (getting my first saltwater tank next week), but I'd imagine it's way easier to stick some dry rock, live rock, and a raw shrimp in the tank to cycle a tank. You don't have to worry about constantly checking the ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, etc., to prevent the fish from getting stressed out, so that's fun. Also, the weaker hitchhikers on the live rock are killed off during the fishless cycle, so that can be an added bonus when going for hardy critters. Even if the fish doesn't suffer from ammonia burns or anything, I'm sure he'd rather hang out in his original tank. Either way, I'd suggest trying the fishless method next time to see if you find it quicker. Another option is buying man-made liverock that's been seeded for several months in a pest-free tank, since you can just plop that stuff in a new tank and slowly start adding critters since you've already got your nitrifying bacteria present.

I think the point the other members were trying to make is that there's a number of easier methods nowadays that don't risk harming fish. I mean, imagine some newbie trying to use a fish to cycle a tank. They might try something stupid like sticking a wild caught Mandarin fish or something in there, then call it quits. The poor thing would probably suffer greatly before finally dying. I mean, if you're as experienced as you say you are with cycling with fish, then I'd imagine you know how to cycle it without stressing the fish out of harming him.

As the others said, puffers will eat pretty much anything they can get their teeth on (well, at least in terms of invertebrates). I probably wouldn't put any other fish in the tank until the puffer's moved out, as we don't need any of the fish to do something stupid and end up getting poked.

Do you have any corals picked out yet? I can help you with some suggestions.

[Nickyfish]

Thank you for the nice reply

The puffer is going back in the fish tank when cycle done

I actually do not have any corals picked out yet or animals
I just know I want to put a bunch of feather dusters in some holes i have in the rocks and I want some brain coral

here is a photo of the tank now it is not totally clear yet and I have not learned all the settings yet on my ap700 I also have a orbit 48" lcd on it
[IMG][/IMG]

[teddscau]

That's 120g? I guess I was picturing something bigger . Maybe the barnacles you put in there are just freakishly large. Just in case you don't know this already, I'd wait until your tank is nice and established before putting any feather dusters in, as I read they can be a pain in the butt to feed.

I've been reading a lot this past week on critters since my dad suddenly decided he wanted a saltwater tank. Some corals I thought look amazing were:
• Cynarina sp. aka "button coral"
• Nemenzophyllia turbida (commonly known as a Fox coral)
• Xenia
• Caulastrea furcata (commonly known as a Candy Cane coral)
• Toadstool/leather coral; top placement, sheds monthly
• Scolymia
• Acan
• Sun coral

Man, I loves me some sun coral. Right, so most of those (except for the scolymia and acan) are really peaceful and don't constantly try to sting the heck out of each other. Most corals have sweeper tentacles that they use to sting anyone who's encroaching on their turf. I think the button corals might have palytoxin, but most of the corals I listed shouldn't release any mustard gas while being fragged.

I like the leather coral since they come in such gorgeous colours, are considered fairly hardy, and are often used by clownfish as an anemone substitute. Heck, they're BETTER than anemones, since anemones apparently like to crawl all over the tank, stinging everything in sight and knocking things over, search for just the right spot to settle down.

I'd personally start off with LPS corals as I personally find them very attractive and they're supposed to be quite easy to feed. The tank I'm picking up next week has some sun corals and Xenia in it, which I'm really excited about. Sun coral is supposed to be quite fussy and will often pout if you upset it, and it'll refuse to eat anything. It also has to be fed daily, which can be annoying, but I've been smitten ever since I saw them online.

As you probably know, a reef tank needs good water current to help keep the corals sediment-free (sand and whatnot hurts their delicate flesh and can end up eating right through to their skeleton), provide them with nutrients, as well as feed them food that's floating around in there. A real problem with a lot of wavemakers and whatnot is that the consistent flow over the same spots on the corals, day after day, can hurt them. So, a cheap solution to this is random flow generators. Vivid Creative Aquatics makes these inexpensive 3D-printed ones that have excellent reviews. From what I understand, these allow you to create a far more natural flow. Not only that, but you don't have to worry about programming different wave patterns, nor do you have to have the current as strong.

As for the layout of your live rock, I'd recommend checking out photos on google of "reef tanks". Rearranging your current layout, instead of just placing the majority along the back wall, can create a lot more depth and interest, but do whatever you like best. For my tank, I'm thinking of arranging the live rock so that there's not only some along the back wall, but I'm also going to place some along the sides. I want the random flow generators to focus on blowing on both walls, while creating a gentle current in the middle for dragonface pipefish to live. I'm hoping to buy some toadstool leathers to put along the walls to create shaded areas and further reduce the current going to the sand bed.

Right, sorry, got off track. Once the tank's established, you might like to buy a giant clam or two. Those guys like lots of light and do a good job of sucking up ammonia and nitrates. The juveniles need to be fed frozen food and whatnot constantly, so buy one that's at least 2" in size. Man, they look great. For a cleanup crew, I'd recommend:

• Brittle stars (Ophiopholis kennerlyi is pretty)—NO GREENS OR YELLOWS (the green guys will devour every living creature in the tank); eats detritus and other garbage
• Tuxedo urchin; eats algae and other garbage
• Blue-legged hermit crab
• Scarlet reef hermit crab (Paguristes cadenati)
• Lysmata amboinensis aka "cleaner shrimp"; offspring provide food for fish, adults groom fish, eats leftover food
• Fuzzy chiton (Acanthopleura granulata); eats algae and other stuff
• Black Ribbed Limpet (Lottia leucopleura)

Oh, and this is up to you, but I hear deep sand beds can be great for providing a home for live foods (copepods, amphipodes, mysis shrimp, etc.) and reducing nitrates. Here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm

I'm personally going with 6" of 1–2mm grains. All the critters I listed are probably the best, most reef-friendly critters. A lot of the various fish, corals, shrimp, hermit crabs, starfish, sea urchins, etc., can cause issues when kept in reef tanks, but as I mentioned, the ones I listed should all behave themselves.

As for the fish you want to put in it, I can't say for sure, but some of them can be quite aggressive. For example, flame angels apparently enjoy eating coral, so I don't know if I'd stick him in there.

[Nickyfish]

wow that was a awesome reply thank u so much I am going to send you a messing i hope u do not mind

i am going to try to attach a photo of the tank so far. Although it is not done u can see the design layout i made I think it looks pretty nice and I have 2 big shelves to place on and also a lot of caves for things to crawl and swim in and out also some nice placed holes to put feather dusters and things which stick out

I have a ap700 and a orbit marine 48" led running I have to learn about programming and light patterns.

I do not know if i should add any more lighting

I am defintly going to look up those flow generators u spoke of and get one.

right now i have to submersible pumps i think rio3 or 4

I want to switch to 1 pump and use a smaller pump to run the uv and chiller

i also have a octopus skimmer and a chiller and uv and a bio ball system.

could u suggest a pump either external or submersible my wet dry has a hole with ball valve and can fit a sub which do u prefer and how many GPH do u suggest for a 120 gallon
the tank has 2 corner overflow with a 1" drain on each side and a 3/4 return i plumbed it so the returns can have there own pump each side or just 1 with a T and ball valve if needed

I also have 2 mechanical filters a aquaclear 500 and a canister just for fun

any suggestions would be great

I thank u again for your information and in advance


Nick

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