Help! More Corals are Bleaching.

Str8linespeed · 05/01/2018, 06:29 PM

Im at a loss, I had some SPS bleaching about 2 months ago, they appear to be slowly recovering. Figured it was from a T5 Lamp change.

Now I have a Red Monti Cap and War Coral that have started to show bleaching, I also have a Weslo that has been showing its skeleton for the past week and appears to have tissue recession (color loss), and a gaping mouth.

I have a dual GFO and Carbon reactor. My water parameters are.....
Sal. 1.025
Temp 78.5
PH 8.13
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 7
Calcium 435
Phosphate .006
Mag 1410
Alk 8.3
Sorry I cant turn my blues off with the T5 set up I have.
Overall Tank Shot
0501181908.jpg
Monti Cap
0501181914.jpg
Weslo
0501181917.jpg
War Coral (Red Circles show spots that are starting to bleach)
0501181918.jpg

Uncle99 · 05/01/2018, 07:09 PM

Your parameters appear on point, so I would have to guess too much, or too rapid change in light source. Corals sometimes get angry when their light is changed in colour spectrum or increased intensity. The thrive in stability so each time we make change, they will react unless we slow down the changes...

BTW, very nice tank....so the problem is newly occurred....and not catastrophic.

Think light

Str8linespeed · 05/01/2018, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Your parameters appear on point, so I would have to guess too much, or too rapid change in light source. Corals sometimes get angry when their light is changed in colour spectrum or increased intensity. The thrive in stability so each time we make change, they will react unless we slow down the changes...

But its been about 2 months since the last lamp was changed out. Why would this just start in the last week or so?

Uncle99 · 05/01/2018, 07:51 PM

Corals can react quickly or slowly depends on the degree of change and the composite of the change. A low PH for example may take months whereas copper, maybe a day.
Im not sure it's light, but if your water is was good, light is the next parameter, one that has changed. If T5 are used to long, their colour changes, and when the new lamps are installed, both the colour and intensity changes.
If you can lower intensity, you could consider that maybe

on the spot · 05/01/2018, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str8linespeed

...I have a dual GFO and Carbon reactor...

Monkey with either of these lately?

GFO can do that sort of thing too. I'd off line them for a few days, see how things look.

HTH

Str8linespeed · 05/02/2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on the spot

Monkey with either of these lately?

GFO can do that sort of thing too. I'd off line them for a few days, see how things look.

HTH

Nope havent changed what I was doing, but I did shut it down..

I caught my Christmas Wrasse picking on the Weslo, so I moved that to my other tank and the Wrasse is going to finding a new home. Im not sure if the other coral bleaching is caused from it or not.

top shelf · 05/02/2018, 05:40 PM

You could still be experiencing fallout from the lamp change but looking at your phosphate it seems a little low. Coral still need phosphate as a food source along with nitrate. With a nitrate level of 7 I would try to raise phosphate to about .03 and see if that doesn't help. I believe many have had success with seachem flourish, there's another product but can't recall it atm.

Str8linespeed · 05/02/2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by top shelf

You could still be experiencing fallout from the lamp change but looking at your phosphate it seems a little low. Coral still need phosphate as a food source along with nitrate. With a nitrate level of 7 I would try to raise phosphate to about .03 and see if that doesn't help. I believe many have had success with seachem flourish, there's another product but can't recall it atm.

I was wondering if the water was "to" clean so to speak. I think I may have changed that I'll test tomorrow. I had to disassemble by rock work to catch a wrasse and stirred up a lot of crud that was hiding in the substrate. That may be more nitrates, but I'll find out.

top shelf · 05/02/2018, 07:01 PM

It could be, you may spike nitrate with that. Just like mag, calc, and alk there is a balance between nitrate and phosphate as well. To little or to much of both is a bad thing and to much of one and not enough of the other is bad as well and can cause other problems. Your nitrate isn't bad though, if you can get p04 up a bit and keep it steady see how that does.

anthonys51 · 05/02/2018, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str8linespeed

Nope havent changed what I was doing, but I did shut it down..

I caught my Christmas Wrasse picking on the Weslo, so I moved that to my other tank and the Wrasse is going to finding a new home. Im not sure if the other coral bleaching is caused from it or not.

The wrasse isn’t eating the coral. It picks at pods.

How often do you test. Also phosphates did you mean to say .06. .006 is too low for out test kits to read

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Str8linespeed · 05/03/2018, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

The wrasse isn’t eating the coral. It picks at pods.

How often do you test. Also phosphates did you mean to say .06. .006 is too low for out test kits to read

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Sorry I beg to differ, I believe it was eating the coral. If it was picking then it was doing it aggressively enough to actually pick the weslo up off of the bottom. I find it strange that if it was pods, which I dont believe I have any in that tank, that the Wrasse was picking in the same spot and repeatedly. Regardless I found a new home for the wrasse.

I test twice a week, I use the Hanna ULR tester. My last reading was 2, so
2x3/1000=.006 (the way I've read to convert and the charts that I've found online.

anthonys51 · 05/03/2018, 05:53 AM

[QUOTE=Str8linespeed;25429404]Sorry I beg to differ, I believe it was eating the coral. If it was picking then it was doing it aggressively enough to actually pick the weslo up off of the bottom. I find it strange that if it was pods, which I dont believe I have any in that tank, that the Wrasse was picking in the same spot and repeatedly. Regardless I found a new home for the wrasse.

I test twice a week, I use the Hanna ULR tester. My last reading was 2, so

2x3/1000=.006 (the way I've read to convert and the charts that I've found online.
If all the stuff in your tank is dying there has to be something wrong with your water chemistry LHow often do you do water changes
Also The Hanna ulr phosphates tester the results are the results. Do you use thst one or the other one There is no reason to convert. So your phosphates are 2.00 with is really high.
Anyway move the welso to a dark low flow spot. Once they start not puffing up it’s normal means death. So you need to get it to puff up.

I

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Uncle99 · 05/03/2018, 12:01 PM

If your phosphate is .006, that is way to low, and bleach yup...
Nitrate should be in the 2-4ppm range and phosphate in the .02-.04 range or they starve

anthonys51 · 05/03/2018, 12:22 PM

Your eyes must be a lot better than mine. Because I can not tell the difference without a shadow of the doubt on salifert or red sea nitrates test kit once you get under 10.

Also op didn’t state if he had phosphates checker or phosphorus

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nereefpat · 05/03/2018, 12:46 PM

We can wait for OP to confirm, but based on the conversion it looks like he's using the ULR Phosphorous.

Definitely take the GFO offline if that hasn't already been done. I agree that close to zero is too little phosphate.

anthonys51 · 05/03/2018, 12:48 PM

I don’t like to assume anything. When trying to figure out a problem I never assume anything

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nereefpat · 05/03/2018, 12:55 PM

There's no way phosphates are 2ppm...especially when GFO has been used.

But, like I said, we can wait for OP to confirm.

anthonys51 · 05/03/2018, 01:02 PM

I don’t think they are at 2 if Gfo is used correctly. But maybe it isn’t. Maybe it stopped tumbling after a day. Maybe his test vial is dirty and giving a false reading. Op also never stated how often he tested. We are assuming he is doing everything correctly. But why are we assuming that. He also didn’t state if he does water changes. Also he states he doesn’t have an autotop off. Maybe he gets lazy for a couple days then tops off. This over time will cause problems.

As far as the lights. After 2 months the coral would of gotten used to the increased lights of it was simply stranger lights. And unless he went 2 years without changing his t5 I don’t think that’s an issue but once again we shouldn’t assume

We simple don’t know enough

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anthonys51 · 05/03/2018, 01:44 PM

Also a reef tank with no pods. Lol. Can we really trust his judgement. If he doesn’t have pods I am the queen of England

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Uncle99 · 05/03/2018, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

Your eyes must be a lot better than mine. Because I can not tell the difference without a shadow of the doubt on salifert or red sea nitrates test kit once you get under 10.

Also op didn’t state if he had phosphates checker or phosphorus

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Point well taken.
I use the API test which low scale is .25
But the resulting colour is very very pale which I figured, and yes, it's a guess, is probably a quarter of that number. We are getting no green at all, so likely, we should be at least, close to that range.
If green stops, close is good enough for this test. I only ensure that the green colour in the test remains as it was....

Tripod1404 · 05/03/2018, 04:17 PM

Its not bleaching, it looks more like necrosis.

Your nitrate and phosphate are way out of balance and phosphate is too low for that level of nitrate and alk. If you want to keep phosphate that low, you need to reduce nitrate below 1ppm as well and drop alk to NSW levels of 6.7-7dKH. Or a easier way would be the let phosphate go up to ~0.05ppm and keep the other to around current values. It is very stressful for corals to have one of the N, P or Alk low while others are high, or vice versa. As a rule of thumb, never make one of the components limiting or excess (making something excess makes other stuff limiting), this includes light as well.

If I were you, I would just remove GFO. There is no need for continuous use for GFO unless you have rock leaching phosphate or if there is massive algae issues.

People didnt use to have this kind of weird bleaching events before widespread use of GFO.

Str8linespeed · 05/03/2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

Also op didn’t state if he had phosphates checker or phosphorus
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You quoted my post yourself in post #12. I already told you I test twice a week and with the Hanna ULR checker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

Also a reef tank with no pods. Lol. Can we really trust his judgement. If he doesn’t have pods I am the queen of England
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Being I've never introduced pods, and I started with dry rock in my system over a year ago I would have no idea where they would come from. I've never visually seen any, and yes I know some would be very small and hard to see with the naked eye. All my corals are dipped prior to being introduced so if they are hanging out on the corals I would think they would be dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

I don’t think they are at 2 if Gfo is used correctly. But maybe it isn’t. Maybe it stopped tumbling after a day. Maybe his test vial is dirty and giving a false reading. Op also never stated how often he tested. We are assuming he is doing everything correctly. But why are we assuming that. He also didn’t state if he does water changes. Also he states he doesn’t have an autotop off. Maybe he gets lazy for a couple days then tops off. This over time will cause problems.

As far as the lights. After 2 months the coral would of gotten used to the increased lights of it was simply stranger lights. And unless he went 2 years without changing his t5 I don’t think that’s an issue but once again we shouldn’t assume

We simple don’t know enough

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The GFO was still tumbling until I took it offline. I have an ATO, My test vials are clean, and rinsed with RO water after every use. I do a small water change twice a month. In this case 5 gals. I also track my readings in a spread sheet they are very consistent over the past year, and the water quality has only been improving as the system ages. You seem like you dont want to accept the fact that my phosphates are .006, no idea why.

Str8linespeed · 05/03/2018, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Its not bleaching, it looks more like necrosis.

Your nitrate and phosphate are way out of balance and phosphate is too low for that level of nitrate and alk. If you want to keep phosphate that low, you need to reduce nitrate below 1ppm as well and drop alk to NSW levels of 6.7-7dKH. Or a easier way would be the let phosphate go up to ~0.05ppm and keep the other to around current values. It is very stressful for corals to have one of the N, P or Alk low while others are high, or vice versa. As a rule of thumb, never make one of the components limiting or excess (making something excess makes other stuff limiting), this includes light as well.

If I were you, I would just remove GFO. There is no need for continuous use for GFO unless you have rock leaching phosphate or if there is massive algae issues.

People didnt use to have this kind of weird bleaching events before widespread use of GFO.

Thank you for the well explained explanation!!! I'll try to find the balance and get the phosphates back up.

anthonys51 · 05/03/2018, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str8linespeed

You quoted my post yourself in post #12. I already told you I test twice a week and with the Hanna ULR checker.

Being I've never introduced pods, and I started with dry rock in my system over a year ago I would have no idea where they would come from. I've never visually seen any, and yes I know some would be very small and hard to see with the naked eye. All my corals are dipped prior to being introduced so if they are hanging out on the corals I would think they would be dead.

The GFO was still tumbling until I took it offline. I have an ATO, My test vials are clean, and rinsed with RO water after every use. I do a small water change twice a month. In this case 5 gals. I also track my readings in a spread sheet they are very consistent over the past year, and the water quality has only been improving as the system ages. You seem like you dont want to accept the fact that my phosphates are .006, no idea why.

They come in on frags. Your funny

Plus Hanna makes 2 checkers. You didn’t state witch one. Instead of writing a rude respond you could just answer

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Str8linespeed · 05/03/2018, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

They come in on frags. Your funny

Plus Hanna makes 2 checkers. You didn’t state witch one. Instead of writing a rude respond you could just answer

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My response isnt rude, its justified by the fact that you assume Im an naive, have no idea what Im talking about, and how to test, etc... I may not have been in this hobby for that long, but that doesnt mean I dont know what Im talking about.

I've mention multiple times in this thread exactly which Hanna checker I use and how many times I test per week. Again, I use the Hanna ULR, not the phosphate checker for freshwater, but the marine checker for phosphorus.

Please tell me how pods survive a coral dip? I use the Bayer method, from what I've understood that kills all critters that could be living on the frags. This is why I believe I have no pods living in my tank and that the wrasse was eating the Weslo. Which today looks puffier in certain sections of its skeleton. Im hoping it recovers.

05/02/2018, 05:40 PM	#7
top shelf Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,022	You could still be experiencing fallout from the lamp change but looking at your phosphate it seems a little low. Coral still need phosphate as a food source along with nitrate. With a nitrate level of 7 I would try to raise phosphate to about .03 and see if that doesn't help. I believe many have had success with seachem flourish, there's another product but can't recall it atm. __________________ Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is a smoothie. Current tank info: 45g SCA Cube

05/02/2018, 07:01 PM	#9
top shelf Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,022	It could be, you may spike nitrate with that. Just like mag, calc, and alk there is a balance between nitrate and phosphate as well. To little or to much of both is a bad thing and to much of one and not enough of the other is bad as well and can cause other problems. Your nitrate isn't bad though, if you can get p04 up a bit and keep it steady see how that does. __________________ Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is a smoothie. Current tank info: 45g SCA Cube

05/03/2018, 12:46 PM	#15
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	We can wait for OP to confirm, but based on the conversion it looks like he's using the ULR Phosphorous. Definitely take the GFO offline if that hasn't already been done. I agree that close to zero is too little phosphate. __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

05/03/2018, 12:55 PM	#17
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	There's no way phosphates are 2ppm...especially when GFO has been used. But, like I said, we can wait for OP to confirm. __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

05/03/2018, 01:02 PM	#18
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Help! More Corals are Bleaching. I don’t think they are at 2 if Gfo is used correctly. But maybe it isn’t. Maybe it stopped tumbling after a day. Maybe his test vial is dirty and giving a false reading. Op also never stated how often he tested. We are assuming he is doing everything correctly. But why are we assuming that. He also didn’t state if he does water changes. Also he states he doesn’t have an autotop off. Maybe he gets lazy for a couple days then tops off. This over time will cause problems. As far as the lights. After 2 months the coral would of gotten used to the increased lights of it was simply stranger lights. And unless he went 2 years without changing his t5 I don’t think that’s an issue but once again we shouldn’t assume We simple don’t know enough Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Last edited by anthonys51; 05/03/2018 at 01:43 PM.

05/01/2018, 06:29 PM	#1
Str8linespeed Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Oakdale, MN Posts: 461	Help! More Corals are Bleaching. Im at a loss, I had some SPS bleaching about 2 months ago, they appear to be slowly recovering. Figured it was from a T5 Lamp change. Now I have a Red Monti Cap and War Coral that have started to show bleaching, I also have a Weslo that has been showing its skeleton for the past week and appears to have tissue recession (color loss), and a gaping mouth. I have a dual GFO and Carbon reactor. My water parameters are..... Sal. 1.025 Temp 78.5 PH 8.13 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 7 Calcium 435 Phosphate .006 Mag 1410 Alk 8.3 Sorry I cant turn my blues off with the T5 set up I have. Overall Tank Shot 0501181908.jpg Monti Cap 0501181914.jpg Weslo 0501181917.jpg War Coral (Red Circles show spots that are starting to bleach) 0501181918.jpg

05/01/2018, 07:09 PM	#2
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Your parameters appear on point, so I would have to guess too much, or too rapid change in light source. Corals sometimes get angry when their light is changed in colour spectrum or increased intensity. The thrive in stability so each time we make change, they will react unless we slow down the changes... BTW, very nice tank....so the problem is newly occurred....and not catastrophic. Think light

05/01/2018, 07:51 PM	#4
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Corals can react quickly or slowly depends on the degree of change and the composite of the change. A low PH for example may take months whereas copper, maybe a day. Im not sure it's light, but if your water is was good, light is the next parameter, one that has changed. If T5 are used to long, their colour changes, and when the new lamps are installed, both the colour and intensity changes. If you can lower intensity, you could consider that maybe

05/03/2018, 05:53 AM	#12
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	[QUOTE=Str8linespeed;25429404]Sorry I beg to differ, I believe it was eating the coral. If it was picking then it was doing it aggressively enough to actually pick the weslo up off of the bottom. I find it strange that if it was pods, which I dont believe I have any in that tank, that the Wrasse was picking in the same spot and repeatedly. Regardless I found a new home for the wrasse. I test twice a week, I use the Hanna ULR tester. My last reading was 2, so 2x3/1000=.006 (the way I've read to convert and the charts that I've found online. If all the stuff in your tank is dying there has to be something wrong with your water chemistry LHow often do you do water changes Also The Hanna ulr phosphates tester the results are the results. Do you use thst one or the other one There is no reason to convert. So your phosphates are 2.00 with is really high. Anyway move the welso to a dark low flow spot. Once they start not puffing up it’s normal means death. So you need to get it to puff up. I Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

05/03/2018, 12:01 PM	#13
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	If your phosphate is .006, that is way to low, and bleach yup... Nitrate should be in the 2-4ppm range and phosphate in the .02-.04 range or they starve

05/03/2018, 12:22 PM	#14
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Your eyes must be a lot better than mine. Because I can not tell the difference without a shadow of the doubt on salifert or red sea nitrates test kit once you get under 10. Also op didn’t state if he had phosphates checker or phosphorus Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

05/03/2018, 12:48 PM	#16
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	I don’t like to assume anything. When trying to figure out a problem I never assume anything Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

05/03/2018, 01:44 PM	#19
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Also a reef tank with no pods. Lol. Can we really trust his judgement. If he doesn’t have pods I am the queen of England Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

05/03/2018, 04:17 PM	#21
Tripod1404 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,821	Its not bleaching, it looks more like necrosis. Your nitrate and phosphate are way out of balance and phosphate is too low for that level of nitrate and alk. If you want to keep phosphate that low, you need to reduce nitrate below 1ppm as well and drop alk to NSW levels of 6.7-7dKH. Or a easier way would be the let phosphate go up to ~0.05ppm and keep the other to around current values. It is very stressful for corals to have one of the N, P or Alk low while others are high, or vice versa. As a rule of thumb, never make one of the components limiting or excess (making something excess makes other stuff limiting), this includes light as well. If I were you, I would just remove GFO. There is no need for continuous use for GFO unless you have rock leaching phosphate or if there is massive algae issues. People didnt use to have this kind of weird bleaching events before widespread use of GFO.