Goodbye Calc Reactor.... Hello Kalkwasser

[NO3]

Great video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu_T...0&pbjreload=10

[Sk8r]

I threw out a reactor after numerous problems. Couldn't in good conscience sell the thing. I've used kalk in topoff with no regrets.

[Bpb]

Not really an apples to apples comparison exactly. Kalkwasser is ok for an inexpensive supplement for low demand tanks that rely heavily on water changes to supplement other elements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[marinelife]

to me constant alk, ca, mag going into the tank is best.
For large systems, CA Reactors just seem to work better for me.

[Bpb]

Agreed. Having extensively used all 3 popular forms of supplementing, it’s not a fair assessment to say one is better than another. Lifestyle, budget, and specific application will make each one more or less appealing to the individual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[biecacka]

Agreed.
A number of larger tanks packed with sps cannot keep up with the demands for Alk and calcium solely on kalk mix.

Corey

[NO3]

My dad use to tell me, "Always listen very very close to the guy who has the biggest net worth in the room"

I'm guessing Ryan Batcheller (President of Bulk Reef Supply) (seen in training vid above) has a net worth of over 25-million maybe more......and knows more Marine Biologists than we have casual friends

He DID SAY at the end of the vid... "In our 160gal test reef I was on the fence about Kalk dosing but decided to go another way"..... Im guessing he went Calc Reactor BUT WITH a CO2 media filter, which is a "$30-a-month" expense to run

[Bpb]

Originally Posted by NO3

My dad use to tell me, "Always listen very very close to the guy who has the biggest net worth in the room"

I'm guessing Ryan Batcheller (President of Bulk Reef Supply) (seen in training vid above) has a net worth of over 25-million maybe more......and knows more Marine Biologists than we have casual friends

He DID SAY at the end of the vid... "In our 160gal test reef I was on the fence about Kalk dosing but decided to go another way"..... Im guessing he went Calc Reactor BUT WITH a CO2 media filter, which is a "$30-a-month" expense to run

If you followed the brs 160 build closely when they set it up, they chose to go with 2 part dosing via a subscriber poll. They’ve since gone from the zeolite system to the triton system. Citing specifically that the goal of this tank was to trial new products and reef keeping methods, not to claim which is best, but to give prospective buyers another set of data to use when making an informed decision.

They’ve never used a calcium reactor on the brs 160, nor have they ever actually claimed that any particular piece of gear or method they use is the “best”.

The brs videos are great information. And offer some analytical data that most common hobbyists are ill equipped to provide for themselves. But at the end of the day they’re selling something. Please bear that in mind when using their data to make decisions.

That’s solid advice your dad gave, though perhaps Ill-placed in this scenario. I’d listen closely to Ryan if he were providing advice on how to build sales and grow a company. If you want advice on how to grow coral fast with pretty colors, I’d listen closer to a long term multi generational aquaculturist. Like Adam from Battlecorals, or Jason Fox.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[homer1475]

Originally Posted by Bpb

That’s solid advice your dad gave, though perhaps Ill-placed in this scenario. I’d listen closely to Ryan if he were providing advice on how to build sales and grow a company. If you want advice on how to grow coral fast with pretty colors, I’d listen closer to a long term multi generational aquaculturist. Like Adam from Battlecorals, or Jason Fox.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

+1



Could not have said it better myself, with the addition of advice given by long time reefers here on RC and other forums.

[Orcus Varuna]

Originally Posted by NO3

My dad use to tell me, "Always listen very very close to the guy who has the biggest net worth in the room"

I'm guessing Ryan Batcheller (President of Bulk Reef Supply) (seen in training vid above) has a net worth of over 25-million maybe more......and knows more Marine Biologists than we have casual friends

He DID SAY at the end of the vid... "In our 160gal test reef I was on the fence about Kalk dosing but decided to go another way"..... Im guessing he went Calc Reactor BUT WITH a CO2 media filter, which is a "$30-a-month" expense to run

It may surprise you but college educated marine scientists are quite rare in the hobby. As one myself, most marine scientists I know find the hobby to be pretty unscrupulous due to the amount of marine life ripped from the reefs each year just to be sentenced to death in the aquariums of the ill prepared, uninformed, and uneducated...

But enough with the sidebar... As for kalk it certainly is not a replacement for a calcium reactor, especially if you have a tank stocked full of sps and clams. It may be simple but it has its own downsides such as dosing being linked to evaporation, it wrecks pumps, your limited in how much you can dose, jacks pH, etc. I always keep a tub on hand just in case something goes wrong with my doser but I would never rely on it long term. If your having issues with your carx I’d look at the equipment you have. If you don’t have a quality dual stage regulator, masterflexx pump, ph controller, etc it’s no surprise you are having or had issues. A proper reactor setup that will be dead simple to tune and basically run with about 10min or so of maintenance a month will run you close to if not more that 2 grand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NO3]

Great video on using kalk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu_T...0&pbjreload=10

[rustyjames]

Imo, every post in this thread was respectful, thoughtful and with lots of good information. I haven't seen anyone trying to shoot you down.

In your other thread about your new dosing method posters gave you lots of good feedback how to achieve similar results much easier. I didn't see anyone shooting you down there either.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by NO3

RC needs a "Let Me Correct You" section.

I thought Ryan's video was fabulous.....but AS EXPECTED when I posted it..... I knew a few NAH-SAYERs would find multiple things wrong with the video.

The video itself is definitely a great one on explaining Kalk and how to use it safely. Only thing I have a problem with is the "most tanks" bullet in the very beginning. Maybe because most people don't stay in the hobby long enough to outgrow Kalk.

Bu the real problem is your title of this thread. It's not a true replacement for a CaRx.

[NO3]

I never meant that I was personally being "shot down".....

I meant I thought the video was a great video showing the effects of Kalk. Yet RC veterans were unimpressed, where I was like "Wow, light bulb over my head moment"....Frustrating

YES! I agree my TITLE is wrong leading people to think they should disconnect their Calc Reactor and go strictly to Kalk dosing.

Im on this KICK....research..... bc I truly believe to grow big beautiful corals at the MAX rate of growth one needs to:

* REDUCE/ELIMINATE as much CO2 in your water to up your pH at 8.3-8.4

* Max out the of OXYGEN in your tank so corals can use the Oxygen to grow. Every living thing on the planet uses Oxygen to grow.

*** I thought the video showed Kalk in a positive light using CO2 already in the tank to form calcium ions thus REDUCING CO2 in the tank.

I'm on this HUNT to max out my corals potential by reducing CO2 and uping Oxygen and pH..... It seems every time I find a piece of the puzzle RC veterans are quick to point out smthg is wrongm

[Bpb]

Originally Posted by NO3

I never meant that I was personally being "shot down".....

I meant I thought the video was a great video showing the effects of Kalk. Yet RC veterans were unimpressed, where I was like "Wow, light bulb over my head moment"....Frustrating

YES! I agree my TITLE is wrong leading people to think they should disconnect their Calc Reactor and go strictly to Kalk dosing.

Im on this KICK....research..... bc I truly believe to grow big beautiful corals at the MAX rate of growth one needs to:

* REDUCE/ELIMINATE as much CO2 in your water to up your pH at 8.3-8.4

* Max out the of OXYGEN in your tank so corals can use the Oxygen to grow. Every living thing on the planet uses Oxygen to grow.

*** I thought the video showed Kalk in a positive light using CO2 already in the tank to form calcium ions thus REDUCING CO2 in the tank.

I'm on this HUNT to max out my corals potential by reducing CO2 and uping Oxygen and pH..... It seems every time I find a piece of the puzzle RC veterans are quick to point out smthg is wrongm

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with kalkwasser, nor does anyone who replied to the thread. It’s a perfectly serviceable method of supplementation for low to moderate demand. The only corrective statements anyone has made to this point is with the idea that kalkwasser can replace a reactor. Nothing else. Many people with a high enough demand use BOTH. I’ve tried using both, but I also use a co2 scrubber on my skimmer, and kalkwasser plus the co2 scrubber pushes my ph TOO high. It can get up to 8.6-8.7 if the house is empty all day.

You’re absolutely correct in your research that maximizing O2 and minimizing CO2 is a big help in improving color and growth. Unless you have the know how and budget to do a calcium reactor from the get go, kalkwasser is a powerful and easy way to start supplementing. I don’t think people are disagreeing as much as it seems.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by NO3

I thought the video showed Kalk in a positive light using CO2 already in the tank to form calcium ions thus REDUCING CO2 in the tank.

It seems every time I find a piece of the puzzle...... RC veterans are quick to point out the method they've used for the last 10+ years is superior to any open discussion. Unless an Acros can grow to the size if a basketball overnight, they're unimpressed and not moving off their husbandry they've used for decade(s)

No man, you are spot on. Kalk is a great way to go in the beginning. It's cheap, effective, pretty easy, and the upside is it keeps ph elevated. Some people have been known to get by with just Kalk in a full blown reef tank, but I never have. My tanks quickly outgrow it and I need to move on to two-part dosing or CaRx. In larger tanks it makes much more financial sense to move to the CaRx.

A downside is safety issues. Gotta make sure you apply it in a way that prevents an overnight kalk dump into your tank or sucking up the sediment at the bottom. And if you are just adding it to your ATO you will go through pumps.

And as mentioned earlier, a missing benefit compared to a CaRx is lack of other micro elements.

Overall, I prefer the CaRx. Only downside for me is struggling with ph. But a c02 scrubber seems to have taken care of that for me, and the c02 media is lasting a long time so far.

[Bpb]

Originally Posted by d2mini

But a c02 scrubber seems to have taken care of that for me, and the c02 media is lasting a long time so far.

+1. A TLF 150 seems to work for 3-4 weeks for me. It keeps ph elevated long after it turns purple. And I’m using a maxed out lifereef running 1600 gph so it’s pulling a ton of air. I have a pretty full house. Family of 5 plus two cats in a small house and it keeps my ph between 8.1-8.4 all day every day. I notice a distinct difference in growth and color with it versus without it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nereefpat]

It might be good to associate some numbers with kalk and low/med/high demand systems.

For example, my 125 w/ 40 sump evaporates about 2 gallons a day. If I replaced all that with saturated kalk, it would add about 2dKH a day. That's quite a bit of demand. I could push that number even higher by increasing evaporation or adding vinegar to the kalk bucket (a lot of reefers carbon dose anyway).

I don't have SPS (well...one monti cap), and every system is different.

I think kalk is underused in this hobby. It's cheap and easy to use. I would agree that as alk/ca demand increases the cost: benefit ratio shifts from kalk->two-part->CaRX.

Ca RX can add Mg too.

[NO3]

I gave up/quit all SPS about 5 yrs ago bc one Alk-Spike is UNFORGIVING and will wipe out every last SPS in the tank in a few days.

My only concern that the video DIDNT talk about was the potential of Alk-Spikes if you overdose Kalk.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by NO3

I gave up/quit all SPS about 5 yrs ago bc one Alk-Spike is UNFORGIVING and will wipe out every last SPS in the tank in a few days.



My only concern that the video DIDNT talk about was the potential of Alk-Spikes if you overdose Kalk.

What kind of alk spike are you talking about? How much? Over how long of a period?

Alk is Alk, doesn't matter where it comes from.

Good husbandry means you are checking your Alk every 2-3 days. Sooner if you are still dialing things in. Unless a doser goes haywire, there is no reason for you to let your Alk jump from something like 8.5 to 11 or 12 or higher. The most you should be seeing is .5-1 dkh moves. And SPS has no problems with that.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by NO3

I'm guessing Ryan Batcheller (President of Bulk Reef Supply) (seen in training vid above) has a net worth of over 25-million maybe more......and knows more Marine Biologists than we have casual friend.

This made me snort coffee through my nose ..... very funny.

Old adage in the aquarium hobby - best way to make a million ..... is to start with two million. Maybe he was independently wealthy before, dunno; I think a NW of $25 million would come as a great surprise to him

[NO3]

Complete opposite. He visited a LFS event in Cincinnati in 2015....and I stood next to him for an hour BSing.

He was a waiter with a high school diploma. He started his first reef tank in a 40g and joined a local Reef Club.

He decided to make his own CORAL food and searched the Internet for the best ingredients. He had success after researching best ingredients in what proportions....and where to buy ingredients online.

He started selling his coral food for his Reef Club.....then other Reef Clubs..... then it went Regionally....then Nationally.... then Internationally.

Then he grew his biz into supplying reef consumables in bulk quantities.

BRS was born and its an International phenom biz.

He literally got started by making coral food in his kitchen in his apartment....now a major player in the saltwater industry.

If I'm lying...in dying....heard his story standing 3ft from him.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by d2mini

Kalk is a great way to go in the beginning. It's cheap, effective, pretty easy, and the upside is it keeps ph elevated. Some people have been known to get by with just Kalk in a full blown reef tank, but I never have. My tanks quickly outgrow it and I need to move on to two-part dosing or CaRx. In larger tanks it makes much more financial sense to move to the CaRx.

My experience also. Both the CaRx and Kalk have been around for decades (just look for some of the early, seminal work from Peter Wilkens - I actually still have his books). I find kalk to be quite useful for pH control and use it in conjunction with my CaRx - but it is nowhere close to sufficient for my tank. I don't doubt that kalk is adequate for most tanks, because most tanks are quite modest. For the really impressive systems, dosing or the CaRx becomes critical. The CaRx also offers benefits that seem to elude many people - that in the process of dissolving coral skeletons, you are replenishing all required minerals, not just alk and calcium. Installing my CaRx in 1997 was the thing that really turned the corner for me in terms of success with SPS.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by NO3

Complete opposite. He visited a LFS event in Cincinnati in 2015....and I stood next to him for an hour BSing.

He was a waiter with a high school diploma. He started his first reef tank in a 40g and joined a local Reef Club.

He decided to make his own CORAL food and searched the Internet for the best ingredients. He had success after researching best ingredients in what proportions....and where to buy ingredients online.

He started selling his coral food for his Reef Club.....then other Reef Clubs..... then it went Regionally....then Nationally.... then Internationally.

Then he grew his biz into supplying reef consumables in bulk quantities.

BRS was born and its an International phenom biz.

He literally got started by making coral food in his kitchen in his apartment....now a major player in the saltwater industry.

If I'm lying...in dying....heard his story standing 3ft from him.

.... and that's even funnier ..... I'm sorry, but I don't think you have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about. I don't think there are any multi-millionaires in this hobby But it's beside the point, just made me laugh ..... carry on.

[jamie1981]

Originally Posted by NO3

Complete opposite. He visited a LFS event in Cincinnati in 2015....and I stood next to him for an hour BSing.

He was a waiter with a high school diploma. He started his first reef tank in a 40g and joined a local Reef Club.

He decided to make his own CORAL food and searched the Internet for the best ingredients. He had success after researching best ingredients in what proportions....and where to buy ingredients online.

He started selling his coral food to his local Reef Club.....WORD OF MOUTG grew like wildfire....then sold to other Reef Clubs..... then it went Regionally....then Nationally.... then Internationally.

Then he grew his biz into supplying reef consumables in bulk quantities.

BRS was born and its an International phenom biz.

He literally got started by making coral food in his kitchen in his apartment....now a major player in the saltwater industry.

If I'm lying...in dying....heard his story standing 3ft from him.

OK so where does the 25mill number come from? or are you just pulling numbers out of air?

True Ryan stated BRS from nothing but he is also a sales rep for the company. Those videos are great, full of info, but there main purpose is to sell product. So take everything he says with a grain of salt (no pun intended)