Problems with CaRX

vitodog · 07/02/2018, 11:35 AM

I'm running a GEO 612 reactor for my 125-gallon tank. I'm using a Carbon Doser regulator and a Cole-Palmer Masterflex #7550-30 pump. The issue I'm having is this, Co2 gas bubbles accumulating (trapped) in the reactor, causing the circulation pump of the reactor to make a "sizzle" sound. When the circulation pump makes this sound, I unplug the circulation pump, shake the reactor to move the Co2 bubbles to the top of the reactor, I then run the Masterflex pump at full throttle to remove the bubbles from the reactor. 24 hours later, I have to repeat the method. My Masterflex is set up to PUSH the tank water through (not pull) the reactor. My BPM rate is currently at 42. The effluent drip rate is 20 ml/min. It has been suggested that I am dosing too much Co2, but if I decrease the BPM, the effluent pH rises (now at 6.7). What can I do to keep the Co2 gas from accumulating in the reactor and also lower the effluent pH?

tom obrecht · 07/02/2018, 01:47 PM

I too have the exact same issue. In fact I’ve upped the co2 bubble count and the ph has not fallen. I’m still trying to dial things in and have increased the speed of the Masterflex trying to get my numbers stable. I realize that increasing the effluent rate probably needs more co2 to dissolve the media faster but it does not seem to matter on the bubbles being chopped up in the reactor.

vitodog · 07/02/2018, 02:46 PM

Hi Tom. Hopefully, we will both get some help/suggestions from the more experienced CaRX owners/users out there.

tom obrecht · 07/02/2018, 03:46 PM

Did anyone try posting on the Masterflex Calcium reactor thread?

Vinny Kreyling · 07/02/2018, 06:31 PM

Best advise I have gotten is to make the alk steady in the tank, forget the reactor ph.
I don't even use one. After the alk remains where you want it, dose to bring calcium to the level you want & the reactor will keep it there.
Fellow even went so far as to say we should be calling these units akalinity reactors.

tom obrecht · 07/02/2018, 07:46 PM

So if my alk in the display has slowly been dropping and my calcium stays about the same what do I do to keep the alk up? I’ve been bumping the Masterflex pump up a couple rpm numbers every couple of days and it still seems to drop even though my ph in the reactor is 6.5-6.6.

slief · 07/02/2018, 08:34 PM

Sounds to me like you are pushing too much Co2 into the reactor for your flow rate. If you are pushing 42 bubbles a minute with a 20ml effluent rate, I can assure you that’s the issue.

I run a Geo 818 and at 65ml/min, I’m pushing 1 Co2 bubble every 3.5 seconds at 3 psi. You’re pushing much more Co2 at 1/3 the effluent rate. That will result in excess gas buildup inside the reactor without a shadow of a doubt.

As for your pH, are you measuring inside the reactor or at the drip line? You need to measure inside the reactor. Especially if the effluent is coming in contact with air and even more so if you run a 2nd reactor to buffer the effluent. If you are measuring your pH inside the reactor, then I’d question your probe or calibration.

sfdan · 07/02/2018, 09:25 PM

I wouldn't worry about lowering the pH. Maintaining the pH with more flow does the same thing as lowering the pH with less flow.

As an example, my GEO 612 reactor (w/masterflex feed pump and carbon doser) is right now running at a ph of 6.86. I just tested right now for this thread, and the dkh coming in is 10, the dkh coming out is 14. This is with reborn media. You don't need a super low ph to dissolve it. Obviously this tank has very low usage and any high demand tank will likely require a lower ph in the reactor, but it is useful to show you don't need to target a low ph to properly dissolve the media.

In your situation I would increase the flow until the bubble situation stops without touching the co2. Test the alkalinity of your tank. Then after a day, test the alkalinity again. If it went up, decrease the co2. If it went down, increase the co2. If you have to increase the co2 rate and this causes the bubble situation to start again, go back to step 1.

Don't worry about the pH in the reactor. I think monitoring it is a good safeguard to catch issues with your regulator or running out of co2, but IMO there is no reason to target any specific pH as long as you have a precise feed pump and regulator (which you do). The only test that is important is the alkalinity of your tank (and to a lesser extent the calcium, but that should fall in line if your alkalinity is stable).

Vinny Kreyling · 07/03/2018, 08:41 AM

http://reef.diesyst.com
Read this on Calcium Reactors.

gcarroll · 07/03/2018, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

http://reef.diesyst.com
Read this on Calcium Reactors.

Calcium reactor bible there!

vitodog · 07/03/2018, 09:48 AM

Firstly, thank you, everyone, for responding to my post. So, what I am going to do is, decrease the amount of Co2 I am currently dosing, increase the effluent drip rate, not target any specific effluent pH and place more emphasis on achieving the alkalinity level I want for my tank. I know this will involve some tweaking with the Co2 and effluent drip rate until I find the right combination. Thanks again for your responses. I do feel that I now have a much better game plan.

vitodog · 07/03/2018, 10:37 AM

Thanks, gcarroll. I did read that article before, I think I will read it again.

07/02/2018, 11:35 AM	#1
vitodog Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 1,226	Problems with CaRX I'm running a GEO 612 reactor for my 125-gallon tank. I'm using a Carbon Doser regulator and a Cole-Palmer Masterflex #7550-30 pump. The issue I'm having is this, Co2 gas bubbles accumulating (trapped) in the reactor, causing the circulation pump of the reactor to make a "sizzle" sound. When the circulation pump makes this sound, I unplug the circulation pump, shake the reactor to move the Co2 bubbles to the top of the reactor, I then run the Masterflex pump at full throttle to remove the bubbles from the reactor. 24 hours later, I have to repeat the method. My Masterflex is set up to PUSH the tank water through (not pull) the reactor. My BPM rate is currently at 42. The effluent drip rate is 20 ml/min. It has been suggested that I am dosing too much Co2, but if I decrease the BPM, the effluent pH rises (now at 6.7). What can I do to keep the Co2 gas from accumulating in the reactor and also lower the effluent pH? __________________ Current Tank Info: 124.7 gal. Reef Savvy D/T, Trigger Systems 36" sump, Octo Elite 150-S, GHL Mitras LX7 x 3, Profilux3, Masterflex 7550-30 Peristaltic pump, Vector M1 return Pump, MP40w QD x 2

07/02/2018, 01:47 PM	#2
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	I too have the exact same issue. In fact I’ve upped the co2 bubble count and the ph has not fallen. I’m still trying to dial things in and have increased the speed of the Masterflex trying to get my numbers stable. I realize that increasing the effluent rate probably needs more co2 to dissolve the media faster but it does not seem to matter on the bubbles being chopped up in the reactor. __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

07/02/2018, 02:46 PM	#3
vitodog Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 1,226	Hi Tom. Hopefully, we will both get some help/suggestions from the more experienced CaRX owners/users out there. __________________ Current Tank Info: 124.7 gal. Reef Savvy D/T, Trigger Systems 36" sump, Octo Elite 150-S, GHL Mitras LX7 x 3, Profilux3, Masterflex 7550-30 Peristaltic pump, Vector M1 return Pump, MP40w QD x 2

07/02/2018, 03:46 PM	#4
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	Did anyone try posting on the Masterflex Calcium reactor thread? __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

07/02/2018, 06:31 PM	#5
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Best advise I have gotten is to make the alk steady in the tank, forget the reactor ph. I don't even use one. After the alk remains where you want it, dose to bring calcium to the level you want & the reactor will keep it there. Fellow even went so far as to say we should be calling these units akalinity reactors. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

07/02/2018, 07:46 PM	#6
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	So if my alk in the display has slowly been dropping and my calcium stays about the same what do I do to keep the alk up? I’ve been bumping the Masterflex pump up a couple rpm numbers every couple of days and it still seems to drop even though my ph in the reactor is 6.5-6.6. __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

07/02/2018, 08:34 PM	#7
slief RC Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 14,173	Sounds to me like you are pushing too much Co2 into the reactor for your flow rate. If you are pushing 42 bubbles a minute with a 20ml effluent rate, I can assure you that’s the issue. I run a Geo 818 and at 65ml/min, I’m pushing 1 Co2 bubble every 3.5 seconds at 3 psi. You’re pushing much more Co2 at 1/3 the effluent rate. That will result in excess gas buildup inside the reactor without a shadow of a doubt. As for your pH, are you measuring inside the reactor or at the drip line? You need to measure inside the reactor. Especially if the effluent is coming in contact with air and even more so if you run a 2nd reactor to buffer the effluent. If you are measuring your pH inside the reactor, then I’d question your probe or calibration. __________________ Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

07/02/2018, 09:25 PM	#8
sfdan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: San Francisco Posts: 451	I wouldn't worry about lowering the pH. Maintaining the pH with more flow does the same thing as lowering the pH with less flow. As an example, my GEO 612 reactor (w/masterflex feed pump and carbon doser) is right now running at a ph of 6.86. I just tested right now for this thread, and the dkh coming in is 10, the dkh coming out is 14. This is with reborn media. You don't need a super low ph to dissolve it. Obviously this tank has very low usage and any high demand tank will likely require a lower ph in the reactor, but it is useful to show you don't need to target a low ph to properly dissolve the media. In your situation I would increase the flow until the bubble situation stops without touching the co2. Test the alkalinity of your tank. Then after a day, test the alkalinity again. If it went up, decrease the co2. If it went down, increase the co2. If you have to increase the co2 rate and this causes the bubble situation to start again, go back to step 1. Don't worry about the pH in the reactor. I think monitoring it is a good safeguard to catch issues with your regulator or running out of co2, but IMO there is no reason to target any specific pH as long as you have a precise feed pump and regulator (which you do). The only test that is important is the alkalinity of your tank (and to a lesser extent the calcium, but that should fall in line if your alkalinity is stable).

07/03/2018, 08:41 AM	#9
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	http://reef.diesyst.com Read this on Calcium Reactors. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

07/03/2018, 09:48 AM	#11
vitodog Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 1,226	Firstly, thank you, everyone, for responding to my post. So, what I am going to do is, decrease the amount of Co2 I am currently dosing, increase the effluent drip rate, not target any specific effluent pH and place more emphasis on achieving the alkalinity level I want for my tank. I know this will involve some tweaking with the Co2 and effluent drip rate until I find the right combination. Thanks again for your responses. I do feel that I now have a much better game plan. __________________ Current Tank Info: 124.7 gal. Reef Savvy D/T, Trigger Systems 36" sump, Octo Elite 150-S, GHL Mitras LX7 x 3, Profilux3, Masterflex 7550-30 Peristaltic pump, Vector M1 return Pump, MP40w QD x 2

07/03/2018, 10:37 AM	#12
vitodog Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 1,226	Thanks, gcarroll. I did read that article before, I think I will read it again. __________________ Current Tank Info: 124.7 gal. Reef Savvy D/T, Trigger Systems 36" sump, Octo Elite 150-S, GHL Mitras LX7 x 3, Profilux3, Masterflex 7550-30 Peristaltic pump, Vector M1 return Pump, MP40w QD x 2