Does a ball valve limit a pumps max lift?

eamike261 · 07/21/2018, 12:10 PM

Need some plumber knowledge here...

Buying a Hydor Smart ATO which requires SUPER slow pumps. Normally people recommend TOM AquaLifter 3.5gph but they're super old and pretty expensive now ($25+). Plus their lift height sucks.

So I want to buy a higher gph pump and stick a ball valve on the output but I'm afraid that will limit the lift height the pump is capable of. Can anyone clarify this for me?

Looking at this if it matters:
https://www.amazon.com/Shkerry-Subme...n%3A7043898011

Thanks.

RockyProndoa · 07/21/2018, 02:00 PM

Short answer, yes, any valve, or fitting for that matter will reduce flow. However, I guess I'm a bit confused here. What height do you plan on lifting the water?

The linked pump is 158gph out, and while I didn't check the head loss for your pump, I highly doubt that you will come anywhere even remotely close to restricting your flow enough to matter. I actually think that you will have way way way too much flow. Your pump will be on for such short intervals that I would worry more about damaging the pump from the very short on/off intervals.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

eamike261 · 07/21/2018, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyProndoa

Short answer, yes, any valve, or fitting for that matter will reduce flow. However, I guess I'm a bit confused here. What height do you plan on lifting the water?

The linked pump is 158gph out, and while I didn't check the head loss for your pump, I highly doubt that you will come anywhere even remotely close to restricting your flow enough to matter. I actually think that you will have way way way too much flow. Your pump will be on for such short intervals that I would worry more about damaging the pump from the very short on/off intervals.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Oh I thought I could restrict the flow as much as I want with a ball valve? Is that wrong?

I plan to lift the water about 36-48 inches. The only reason I want super slow flow is because the Hydor Smart ATO requires you to fill super slow otherwise it doesn't work and sounds the alarm.

RockyProndoa · 07/21/2018, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eamike261

Oh I thought I could restrict the flow as much as I want with a ball valve? Is that wrong?

I plan to lift the water about 36-48 inches. The only reason I want super slow flow is because the Hydor Smart ATO requires you to fill super slow otherwise it doesn't work and sounds the alarm.

You can... But I'm still falling to understand why you wouldn't use a pump that is designed to pump the small volumes an ATO requires?

I personally use the AquaLifter, and have for years, without issue. Taking a 158gph rated pump and throttling it down to literally 1 or 2 gph is asking for trouble. Not to mention dialing it down that low will be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

eamike261 · 07/21/2018, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyProndoa

You can... But I'm still falling to understand why you wouldn't use a pump that is designed to pump the small volumes an ATO requires?

I personally use the AquaLifter, and have for years, without issue. Taking a 158gph rated pump and throttling it down to literally 1 or 2 gph is asking for trouble. Not to mention dialing it down that low will be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Oh gotcha. I just can't find a single product anywhere besides the AquaLifter that is super low flow. They're expensive ($25+) and only pump water up to 30 inches which is kind of an issue because my tank is 16 inches tall. That only leaves me without about a foot to figure out an overflow reservoir underneath the tank.

Vinny Kreyling · 07/22/2018, 10:19 AM

NOT Cheap but a LitreMeter will do exactly that,
they show up in the For Sale forum occasionally

LobsterOfJustice · 07/22/2018, 11:05 AM

Get a peristaltic pump. BRS sells cheap-ish ones meant for dosing or you can pick up an old reliable cole-parmer from eBay.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

billdogg · 07/22/2018, 01:05 PM

Even if what you were thinking about would work, the pump you linked to is an unknown brand and almost certainly of less than stellar quality. (read: it's a piece of junk that will last about a week) A pump of good enough quality to last that has that output will cost considerably more than and aqualifter, and then you will be choking it back to what the aqualifter does (and does very well) so I fail to see any benefit.

The very last thing you want to cheap out on in this hobby is the equipment that keeps your system running.

eamike261 · 07/22/2018, 02:35 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'm just going pass on the Hydor Smart ATO, this is way too much headache... don't know why they don't just sell a pump that works with the damn thing.

RockyProndoa · 07/22/2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eamike261

Thanks for the responses. I'm just going pass on the Hydor Smart ATO, this is way too much headache... don't know why they don't just sell a pump that works with the damn thing.

Well, you have been provided several options (AquaLifter, MaxiJet 1200, LitreMeter, peristaltic pump), unfortunately they all are out of your price range, so I'm willing to guess that even if they did sell their own pump it would fall out of range as well.

As someone suggested above, this is an expensive hobby for better or worse, and the very last thing you want to do is skimp on equipment. Best of luck to you.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

eamike261 · 07/22/2018, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyProndoa

Well, you have been provided several options (AquaLifter, MaxiJet 1200, LitreMeter, peristaltic pump), unfortunately they all are out of your price range, so I'm willing to guess that even if they did sell their own pump it would fall out of range as well.

As someone suggested above, this is an expensive hobby for better or worse, and the very last thing you want to do is skimp on equipment. Best of luck to you.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Wait no one suggested a MaxiJet 1200! That's actually a reasonable price and has a max head of 6 feet. As long I can slow the flow rate down significantly and maintain the water pressure for lift then that would work perfectly.

laverda · 07/23/2018, 12:46 AM

The key is max head height is 6’. That means you get a trickle to no flow at 6’ of head pressure. You will not get much flow out of a maxi jet at 4’. You can reduce it further with a ball valve if needed. That will not change the head height per say, only the flow. Any fittings you add to the hose, like valves, couplings, elbows, Ts will decrease flow. In your case height is probably going to be the most significant factor.

billdogg · 07/23/2018, 10:24 AM

FWIW - the maxi jet 1200 costs the same or more than a aqualifter.

eamike261 · 07/23/2018, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

FWIW - the maxi jet 1200 costs the same or more than a aqualifter.

Yup but the the max head on the AquaLifter renders it nearly useless unless your ATO reservoir is sitting next to your tank.

eamike261 · 07/23/2018, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laverda

The key is max head height is 6’. That means you get a trickle to no flow at 6’ of head pressure. You will not get much flow out of a maxi jet at 4’. You can reduce it further with a ball valve if needed. That will not change the head height per say, only the flow. Any fittings you add to the hose, like valves, couplings, elbows, Ts will decrease flow. In your case height is probably going to be the most significant factor.

Awesome!!! Thank you! That's exactly what I've been trying to figure out

FLSharkvictim · 07/24/2018, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eamike261

Need some plumber knowledge here...

Buying a Hydor Smart ATO which requires SUPER slow pumps. Normally people recommend TOM AquaLifter 3.5gph but they're super old and pretty expensive now ($25+). Plus their lift height sucks.

So I want to buy a higher gph pump and stick a ball valve on the output but I'm afraid that will limit the lift height the pump is capable of. Can anyone clarify this for me?

Looking at this if it matters:
https://www.amazon.com/Shkerry-Subme...n%3A7043898011

Thanks.

@eamike261, save your money and buy either an Avast ATO or what I have a TUNZE 3155 and you will never have to worry about any issues what so ever! Not cheap but you know what they say - When it comes to this hobby this is totally my motto! Always use High quality products, I beleiave that 50% increase is cost definitely worthwhile, even know if you only gain another 5% of the product reliability espcally if you have a mautre tank like a lot of us! Or you can pick up a Periplastic pump from BRS for
$50.00 and

eamike261 · 07/24/2018, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLSharkvictim

@eamike261, save your money and buy either an Avast ATO or what I have a TUNZE 3155 and you will never have to worry about any issues what so ever! Not cheap but you know what they say - When it comes to this hobby this is totally my motto! Always use High quality products, I beleiave that 50% increase is cost definitely worthwhile, even know if you only gain another 5% of the product reliability espcally if you have a mautre tank like a lot of us! Or you can pick up a Periplastic pump from BRS for
$50.00 and

I get the point about always spending as much money as possible in this hobby but frankly I've found that plenty of budget solutions work perfectly (not always, but a lot of the time it's perfectly fine). Not everyone has a tank full of thousands of dollars of livestock so the blanket advice of "never buying any budget item" is unfounded and misleading (and it scares away newbies or young people so it's detrimental to the hobby imo).

Also not to nitpick but the Tunze Osmolator 3155 is about 200% more than the Hydor Smart ATO

not 50% more. Even if you add a pump and hose the 3155 is still more than double the price.

Good news though: I may have found a used 3155 in my area for a good price.

FLSharkvictim · 07/25/2018, 10:15 AM

[QUOTE=eamike261;25474711]I get the point about always spending as much money as possible in this hobby but frankly I've found that plenty of budget solutions work perfectly (not always, but a lot of the time it's perfectly fine). Not everyone has a tank full of thousands of dollars of livestock so the blanket advice of "never buying any budget item" is unfounded and misleading (and it scares away newbies or young people so it's detrimental to the hobby imo).

No that's, not my point Mate. If you're using an Aualifter for your ATO you're going to have some problems down the road ONE WAY OR another and that's a fact! Remeber, just trying to help not hate, that's not my job! Maybe you don't have as quite a bit of time and money that I have invested in my system but at least do yourself a favor and go buy a decent ATO w/ your hard earned money which will be well spent. Just b/c it's expensive that does not mean it's going to work better! Grab your self a peristaltic pump and you will be good to go.

Aquavaj · 07/25/2018, 11:05 AM

The aqualifter or other pumps that use a diaphragm will be much more precise. The moment the pump stops the flow stops. This is trickier with pumps that use an impeller because there could be enough head pressure still to empty out all the water in the hose even after the pump stopped. Probably won't be an issue on large tanks but might on smaller ones.

07/21/2018, 12:10 PM	#1
eamike261 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Buffalo Posts: 315	Does a ball valve limit a pumps max lift? Need some plumber knowledge here... Buying a Hydor Smart ATO which requires SUPER slow pumps. Normally people recommend TOM AquaLifter 3.5gph but they're super old and pretty expensive now ($25+). Plus their lift height sucks. So I want to buy a higher gph pump and stick a ball valve on the output but I'm afraid that will limit the lift height the pump is capable of. Can anyone clarify this for me? Looking at this if it matters: https://www.amazon.com/Shkerry-Subme...n%3A7043898011 Thanks.

07/22/2018, 10:19 AM	#6
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	NOT Cheap but a LitreMeter will do exactly that, they show up in the For Sale forum occasionally __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

07/22/2018, 11:05 AM	#7
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	Get a peristaltic pump. BRS sells cheap-ish ones meant for dosing or you can pick up an old reliable cole-parmer from eBay. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

07/22/2018, 01:05 PM	#8
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Even if what you were thinking about would work, the pump you linked to is an unknown brand and almost certainly of less than stellar quality. (read: it's a piece of junk that will last about a week) A pump of good enough quality to last that has that output will cost considerably more than and aqualifter, and then you will be choking it back to what the aqualifter does (and does very well) so I fail to see any benefit. The very last thing you want to cheap out on in this hobby is the equipment that keeps your system running. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

07/23/2018, 12:46 AM	#12
laverda Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,902	The key is max head height is 6’. That means you get a trickle to no flow at 6’ of head pressure. You will not get much flow out of a maxi jet at 4’. You can reduce it further with a ball valve if needed. That will not change the head height per say, only the flow. Any fittings you add to the hose, like valves, couplings, elbows, Ts will decrease flow. In your case height is probably going to be the most significant factor. __________________ 240G mixed reef, 29G SPS/LPS clam tank, 50G mixed reef Current Tank Info: 300g mixed reef, 50g cube

07/21/2018, 02:00 PM	#2
RockyProndoa Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Toledo, OH Posts: 204	Short answer, yes, any valve, or fitting for that matter will reduce flow. However, I guess I'm a bit confused here. What height do you plan on lifting the water? The linked pump is 158gph out, and while I didn't check the head loss for your pump, I highly doubt that you will come anywhere even remotely close to restricting your flow enough to matter. I actually think that you will have way way way too much flow. Your pump will be on for such short intervals that I would worry more about damaging the pump from the very short on/off intervals. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

07/22/2018, 02:35 PM	#9
eamike261 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Buffalo Posts: 315	Thanks for the responses. I'm just going pass on the Hydor Smart ATO, this is way too much headache... don't know why they don't just sell a pump that works with the damn thing.

07/23/2018, 10:24 AM	#13
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	FWIW - the maxi jet 1200 costs the same or more than a aqualifter. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

07/25/2018, 10:15 AM	#18
FLSharkvictim Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Tampabay - FLORIDA Posts: 240	[QUOTE=eamike261;25474711]I get the point about always spending as much money as possible in this hobby but frankly I've found that plenty of budget solutions work perfectly (not always, but a lot of the time it's perfectly fine). Not everyone has a tank full of thousands of dollars of livestock so the blanket advice of "never buying any budget item" is unfounded and misleading (and it scares away newbies or young people so it's detrimental to the hobby imo). No that's, not my point Mate. If you're using an Aualifter for your ATO you're going to have some problems down the road ONE WAY OR another and that's a fact! Remeber, just trying to help not hate, that's not my job! Maybe you don't have as quite a bit of time and money that I have invested in my system but at least do yourself a favor and go buy a decent ATO w/ your hard earned money which will be well spent. Just b/c it's expensive that does not mean it's going to work better! Grab your self a peristaltic pump and you will be good to go. __________________ TANK INFO: Rimless 150 Mixed Reef Current Tank Info: SCA Rimless 150 Mixed Reef

07/25/2018, 11:05 AM	#19
Aquavaj Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 132	The aqualifter or other pumps that use a diaphragm will be much more precise. The moment the pump stops the flow stops. This is trickier with pumps that use an impeller because there could be enough head pressure still to empty out all the water in the hose even after the pump stopped. Probably won't be an issue on large tanks but might on smaller ones.