Best Large Volume Return Pump Options

SBPD428 · 09/10/2018, 02:37 PM

I am setting up a 375g DT with a 280g refugium and a 90g sump. Ideally I would like to cycle about 3500gph. After looking around it looks like I’m going to have to run 2 pumps or break the bank for one that will do the job alone. Just wanted to see if anyone had any idea to throw out there!

untico · 09/10/2018, 03:08 PM

Reeflo hybrid pumps , I have a 300gal with 220 gal sump and use a barracuda. You can throttle them down with a valve on the return side. They last a good 4-5 yrs before a seal replacement is needed. Mine sits outside in a shed with 100+degrees the whole summer and no issues at all. It just keeps on pumping. They’re quiet considering their size but not for a quiet living room though.

Sent from Untico’s iPhone using Tapatalk

tkeracer619 · 09/10/2018, 03:53 PM

I second the Reeflo pumps.

What type of head pressure are you looking at?

SBPD428 · 09/10/2018, 06:41 PM

Head pressure is going to be around 10’. Sound is really isn’t to much of concern as I am in the process of converting the half of the garage behind the DT in to a fish room, so all equipment will be in there. I will also be building a manifold off of the return to run different equipment and such. If I can talk the wife into it, hopefully I will be plumbing in a frag tank too! I’ll take a gander at the Reeflo pumps. I look at some of the Dc controllable ones, mj about hit the floor when I saw the price of the Abyzz pump that would do what I needed.

d-man · 09/10/2018, 09:14 PM

Why do you want to run so much gph through your sump? Are you using a refugium? Skimmer? What?
Typically you want a lil less flow through the sump as to let filtration to do it’s job. I ran a fluval sp6 on my 860g and it was great. I used powerheads to get in tank flow.

On my 960 I’ll be doing the same except this time I’m doing 2 closed loop systems for internal flow plus 2 maybe 4 jebaos CP-150s

SBPD428 · 09/10/2018, 09:57 PM

I am going to start this tank using the Triton method. Wanted to try something new. Unless I am miss understanding they way it works, it recommends a 10X turnover of the main display, which for me would technically 3750gph. On the flip side if I buy a larger pump now and decide it’s too much I can throttle it down whereas if I buy small and decide I need to go bigger I would have to buy new pumps.

The ReefFlo pumps look great and are a heck of a lot cheaper. I still like the idea of controllability. Any thoughts on the Red Dragon pumps?

alton · 09/11/2018, 05:10 AM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1827107

Red Dragon are top of the line.

When I had my 300 I used two Pan World pumps, using one 24/7 and the other I would shut off at night. It made for a very quiet tank at night. Plus if one pump went down, the other could carry the biological load until I found another. Pan World is known to run for 10+ years with no issues. With the money you will have invested in a tank this size, definitely keep a back up/spare pump with fittings ready to go. You mentioned 10' head pressure but is that straight up or the pump has to pump a total of 10' ? If you are not pumping 10' up two 100 PXX pumps would be more than enough because Pan World just like Iwaki are true GPH versus DC and other AC pumps that claim a certain GPH until they have to climb 6' and then they drop off 50%

tom obrecht · 09/11/2018, 06:40 AM

I recently installed a red dragon on my system. After a couple of decades of using many different pump brands I have to say RD is what stands head and toes above the most popular brands. I used the Reef flo pumps years ago and had nothing but issues with leaking seals. It is a real issue that I hated dealing with. Red Dragons are silent, built like a tank and are very nice with the control box to see what you are moving flow wise. They do set you back some coin out of the gate but if I added up what I’ve spent in other brands I would be able to but the red dragon many times over.

SBPD428 · 09/11/2018, 07:07 AM

See this is where I come into conflict. I really like the idea of having two pump running for redundancy purposes and I really love how inexpensive the ReeFlo and Panworld pumps are but I have two questions, 1) do they add any heat to the tank and 2) how loud are they? I know I said earlier that noise really was not an issue because it would be in a fish room but then remembered that the Little Giant I had a one time could be heard three rooms away. However I really would like something controllable and ideally something that is submergible so if the is a leak it in theory should not cause much of an issue. I know controllability is just something else that could break but I work quite a bit and would like to be able to see what my tank is doing an if there is a problem when I am not there. So far the only two pumps that I have found that meet that criteria are Abyzz and Red Dragon, but they both hurt the wallet especially when you look at buying two for redundancy.

tom obrecht · 09/11/2018, 07:25 AM

Personally the Abyzz and RD are so well built I would not hesitate to rely on them without a backup. Of course everything mechanical can fail but once you see the workings of the pump especially the impeller I think you would comfortable. They are in a league of their own Thus the price tag.

tom obrecht · 09/11/2018, 07:28 AM

I just purchased a second RD for a second tank. Pm me your text number and I will send you some pictures of the pump before I install it so you can see the quality and engineering.

alton · 09/11/2018, 07:38 AM

I started with little giant in 1991- LOUD- The Pan Worlds 40 PX super Quiet with no fan, 50PXX super Quiet with overflow noise being more noticing. 100 PXX once again semi-quiet and overflow noise should cover it. None of the PWs pumps add any heat. Also I run a Ecotech M1 because I like the fact I can control the rate at different times and reasons. It is rated at 2,000 GPH, but my old PW 50PXX rated at 1,110 pumps more water at 6' than the M1. So do your research on advertised GPH, they don't always hold up.

SBPD428 · 09/11/2018, 07:59 AM

That's good to know about the Abyzz/Red Dragon pumps along with the Pan World.

Alton I realized that I didn't answer you question in my previous post. The 10' is approximately 6' up and the rest of the head loss would be do to fittings, angles and check valves.

I really appreciate all of the input from everybody. Is it bad that there are so many good options to pick from that you don't know where to start? This is my dream build and is the first tank I have built from the ground up starting with the custom tank. Its also the first tank that I have started that will have all new equipment from the start. Past experience has taught me to seek experience, measure twice and buy once.

lapin · 09/11/2018, 08:03 AM

I have 2 Reeflo gold pumps. The hammer/cuda is very quiet for a large pump. My ro/di booster pump makes 2x the noise. The dart/snapper is louder than the h/c, but pumps less volume.

tom obrecht · 09/11/2018, 08:40 AM

Just took some pics. Pm me your number I’ll text them to you.

tkeracer619 · 09/11/2018, 09:58 AM

There were some issues with seals a while back on reeflos, I suspect it was out of spec front bearings but who really knows. I use a US Seals dual silicon carbide seal instead of the reeflo version which is a silicon carbide seal on a ceramic seat. The US Seals SC/SC seal is very tough and should last many years without replacement.

My return pump and skimmer pump are Sequence 4600SEQ22 from 2003. Just rebuilt them with new impellers, bearings, and seals. Work like new.

Vinny Kreyling · 09/11/2018, 11:35 AM

Watch out for an internal pump adding heat to the water.
I have 250 gallons & some pumps brought me to 81 - 83 degrees.
I bought a used Red Dragon & saw maybe a 1 degree rise in temp.

SBPD428 · 09/11/2018, 03:17 PM

Ya I had that problem with a Mag 12 a while back. If you don't mind me asking what model Red Dragon are you using is 250 your total water volume or just DT volume?

Vinny Kreyling · 09/11/2018, 05:02 PM

With rocks & all close to total volume.
RD3 Speedy 80 Watt, that I run @70 W, no longer made, they now have a 100 W model.
Slief, here on RC is their rep & will gladly help any way he can.
You can contact him through their forum here on RC.

slief · 09/12/2018, 09:15 AM

SBPD428,
I got your message and sent you a PM.

Vinny Kreyling · 09/12/2018, 11:54 AM

See What I Mean-------

fishyguy7 · 09/12/2018, 03:06 PM

Reeflo is now using a new better made pump that they say is much better. Atleast that’s what they said at MACNA

09/10/2018, 02:37 PM	#1
SBPD428 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 11	Best Large Volume Return Pump Options I am setting up a 375g DT with a 280g refugium and a 90g sump. Ideally I would like to cycle about 3500gph. After looking around it looks like I’m going to have to run 2 pumps or break the bank for one that will do the job alone. Just wanted to see if anyone had any idea to throw out there!

09/10/2018, 03:08 PM	#2
untico Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 596	Reeflo hybrid pumps , I have a 300gal with 220 gal sump and use a barracuda. You can throttle them down with a valve on the return side. They last a good 4-5 yrs before a seal replacement is needed. Mine sits outside in a shed with 100+degrees the whole summer and no issues at all. It just keeps on pumping. They’re quiet considering their size but not for a quiet living room though. Sent from Untico’s iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Louis, Pura vida mae Current Tank Info: 300gal Mixed reef, AI 52 HD LED'S /180 gal.Sump-AI 52 w/Refugium , 50gal Skimmer sump, 20gal quarantine tank. No Chiller :>)

09/10/2018, 03:53 PM	#3
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	I second the Reeflo pumps. What type of head pressure are you looking at? __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

09/11/2018, 06:40 AM	#8
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	I recently installed a red dragon on my system. After a couple of decades of using many different pump brands I have to say RD is what stands head and toes above the most popular brands. I used the Reef flo pumps years ago and had nothing but issues with leaking seals. It is a real issue that I hated dealing with. Red Dragons are silent, built like a tank and are very nice with the control box to see what you are moving flow wise. They do set you back some coin out of the gate but if I added up what I’ve spent in other brands I would be able to but the red dragon many times over. __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

09/11/2018, 07:07 AM	#9
SBPD428 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 11	See this is where I come into conflict. I really like the idea of having two pump running for redundancy purposes and I really love how inexpensive the ReeFlo and Panworld pumps are but I have two questions, 1) do they add any heat to the tank and 2) how loud are they? I know I said earlier that noise really was not an issue because it would be in a fish room but then remembered that the Little Giant I had a one time could be heard three rooms away. However I really would like something controllable and ideally something that is submergible so if the is a leak it in theory should not cause much of an issue. I know controllability is just something else that could break but I work quite a bit and would like to be able to see what my tank is doing an if there is a problem when I am not there. So far the only two pumps that I have found that meet that criteria are Abyzz and Red Dragon, but they both hurt the wallet especially when you look at buying two for redundancy. __________________ DT: 2 - MP60WQD, 2 - MP40WQD. Lighting 4 - Lumen Bright Reflectors, Ushio 10K MH SE bulbs, LuxCore 400w ballast, VHO Super Actinic & 454 bulbs, IceCap 660 ballast. 280g Refugium, 90g Sump. Current Tank Info: Custom Planet Aquarium 375g 96" x 30" x 30" (Build in progress)

09/10/2018, 06:41 PM	#4
SBPD428 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 11	Head pressure is going to be around 10’. Sound is really isn’t to much of concern as I am in the process of converting the half of the garage behind the DT in to a fish room, so all equipment will be in there. I will also be building a manifold off of the return to run different equipment and such. If I can talk the wife into it, hopefully I will be plumbing in a frag tank too! I’ll take a gander at the Reeflo pumps. I look at some of the Dc controllable ones, mj about hit the floor when I saw the price of the Abyzz pump that would do what I needed.

09/10/2018, 09:14 PM	#5
d-man Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: San Diego, ca Posts: 2,732	Why do you want to run so much gph through your sump? Are you using a refugium? Skimmer? What? Typically you want a lil less flow through the sump as to let filtration to do it’s job. I ran a fluval sp6 on my 860g and it was great. I used powerheads to get in tank flow. On my 960 I’ll be doing the same except this time I’m doing 2 closed loop systems for internal flow plus 2 maybe 4 jebaos CP-150s

09/10/2018, 09:57 PM	#6
SBPD428 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 11	I am going to start this tank using the Triton method. Wanted to try something new. Unless I am miss understanding they way it works, it recommends a 10X turnover of the main display, which for me would technically 3750gph. On the flip side if I buy a larger pump now and decide it’s too much I can throttle it down whereas if I buy small and decide I need to go bigger I would have to buy new pumps. The ReefFlo pumps look great and are a heck of a lot cheaper. I still like the idea of controllability. Any thoughts on the Red Dragon pumps?

09/11/2018, 05:10 AM	#7
alton Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Zuehl, Texas Posts: 4,460	http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1827107 Red Dragon are top of the line. When I had my 300 I used two Pan World pumps, using one 24/7 and the other I would shut off at night. It made for a very quiet tank at night. Plus if one pump went down, the other could carry the biological load until I found another. Pan World is known to run for 10+ years with no issues. With the money you will have invested in a tank this size, definitely keep a back up/spare pump with fittings ready to go. You mentioned 10' head pressure but is that straight up or the pump has to pump a total of 10' ? If you are not pumping 10' up two 100 PXX pumps would be more than enough because Pan World just like Iwaki are true GPH versus DC and other AC pumps that claim a certain GPH until they have to climb 6' and then they drop off 50%

09/11/2018, 07:25 AM	#10
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	Personally the Abyzz and RD are so well built I would not hesitate to rely on them without a backup. Of course everything mechanical can fail but once you see the workings of the pump especially the impeller I think you would comfortable. They are in a league of their own Thus the price tag. __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

09/11/2018, 07:28 AM	#11
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	I just purchased a second RD for a second tank. Pm me your text number and I will send you some pictures of the pump before I install it so you can see the quality and engineering. __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

09/11/2018, 07:38 AM	#12
alton Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Zuehl, Texas Posts: 4,460	I started with little giant in 1991- LOUD- The Pan Worlds 40 PX super Quiet with no fan, 50PXX super Quiet with overflow noise being more noticing. 100 PXX once again semi-quiet and overflow noise should cover it. None of the PWs pumps add any heat. Also I run a Ecotech M1 because I like the fact I can control the rate at different times and reasons. It is rated at 2,000 GPH, but my old PW 50PXX rated at 1,110 pumps more water at 6' than the M1. So do your research on advertised GPH, they don't always hold up.

09/11/2018, 07:59 AM	#13
SBPD428 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 11	That's good to know about the Abyzz/Red Dragon pumps along with the Pan World. Alton I realized that I didn't answer you question in my previous post. The 10' is approximately 6' up and the rest of the head loss would be do to fittings, angles and check valves. I really appreciate all of the input from everybody. Is it bad that there are so many good options to pick from that you don't know where to start? This is my dream build and is the first tank I have built from the ground up starting with the custom tank. Its also the first tank that I have started that will have all new equipment from the start. Past experience has taught me to seek experience, measure twice and buy once. __________________ DT: 2 - MP60WQD, 2 - MP40WQD. Lighting 4 - Lumen Bright Reflectors, Ushio 10K MH SE bulbs, LuxCore 400w ballast, VHO Super Actinic & 454 bulbs, IceCap 660 ballast. 280g Refugium, 90g Sump. Current Tank Info: Custom Planet Aquarium 375g 96" x 30" x 30" (Build in progress)

09/11/2018, 08:03 AM	#14
lapin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Austin Posts: 801	I have 2 Reeflo gold pumps. The hammer/cuda is very quiet for a large pump. My ro/di booster pump makes 2x the noise. The dart/snapper is louder than the h/c, but pumps less volume. __________________ Tank sizes, 2-10's a 55 and one that's about 500gal Current Tank Info: Interior decorating happening

09/11/2018, 08:40 AM	#15
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	Just took some pics. Pm me your number I’ll text them to you. __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

09/11/2018, 09:58 AM	#16
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	There were some issues with seals a while back on reeflos, I suspect it was out of spec front bearings but who really knows. I use a US Seals dual silicon carbide seal instead of the reeflo version which is a silicon carbide seal on a ceramic seat. The US Seals SC/SC seal is very tough and should last many years without replacement. My return pump and skimmer pump are Sequence 4600SEQ22 from 2003. Just rebuilt them with new impellers, bearings, and seals. Work like new. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

09/11/2018, 11:35 AM	#17
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Watch out for an internal pump adding heat to the water. I have 250 gallons & some pumps brought me to 81 - 83 degrees. I bought a used Red Dragon & saw maybe a 1 degree rise in temp. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

09/11/2018, 03:17 PM	#18
SBPD428 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 11	Ya I had that problem with a Mag 12 a while back. If you don't mind me asking what model Red Dragon are you using is 250 your total water volume or just DT volume? __________________ DT: 2 - MP60WQD, 2 - MP40WQD. Lighting 4 - Lumen Bright Reflectors, Ushio 10K MH SE bulbs, LuxCore 400w ballast, VHO Super Actinic & 454 bulbs, IceCap 660 ballast. 280g Refugium, 90g Sump. Current Tank Info: Custom Planet Aquarium 375g 96" x 30" x 30" (Build in progress)

09/11/2018, 05:02 PM	#19
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	With rocks & all close to total volume. RD3 Speedy 80 Watt, that I run @70 W, no longer made, they now have a 100 W model. Slief, here on RC is their rep & will gladly help any way he can. You can contact him through their forum here on RC. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

09/12/2018, 09:15 AM	#20
slief RC Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 14,173	SBPD428, I got your message and sent you a PM. __________________ Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

09/12/2018, 11:54 AM	#21
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	See What I Mean------- __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

09/12/2018, 03:06 PM	#22
fishyguy7 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Fort Collins,CO Posts: 426	Reeflo is now using a new better made pump that they say is much better. Atleast that’s what they said at MACNA