How much old sand to save?

[ReefsandGeeks]

I'm preparing to transfer my livestock to a new tank and am wondering how much of the existing sand to use "uncleaned". My plan is to clean the majority of the sand to remove built up detritus. This cleaned sand along with some new sand will be added to the new tank. I plan on saving maybe 3 or 4 cups of the current sand and transfer it straight to the new tank without cleaning it to preserve the bacteria, and tiny animals that live in the sand and make it live sand. Does anyone have any recommendations on just how much sand I should save? My current tank is a 65 gallon with 1-2 inches of sand and will be transferred to a 150 gallon tank.

My goal is to not transfer a bunch of bio waste hidden in the sand bed, but to preserve enough of the good stuff that it can repopulate.

[NikonN8]

For the volume you have and that you are going to, I would just wash it all and get a fresh seed. To keep most of your goods I think you are risking liberating an awful lot of crud.

[ReefsandGeeks]

Is the same beneficial critters in LR as there are in the sand, or are they different? If I just reuse my live rock will the beneficial critters and bacteria migrate from the LR to the sand and eventually populate the sand just like before?

[mcgyvr]

There is no magic number and any answer given by anyone is a total guess... So yeah..a few cups sounds just fine..
And yes some of the microfauna,etc may also be present in your rock...

[ReefsandGeeks]

Sounds good. I ended up transfering one solo cup of uncleaned sand to the new tank last night along with all of the cleaned sand. Didn't look as dirty as I've seen it before, so I don't think I would have polutted my tank very much from the one cup.

I remember from my past forum readings every time an experianced reefer talks about moving to a new tank, the concensus seems to be to start with new sand. To me, there's little differance between new sand and old sand cleaned well. Both will be rinsed untill clear anyways. I feel better about having saved a cup uncleaned, but would likely be fine if I didn't as well. I think the only bad answer would be to transfer all of the sand uncleaned and stir up all of the detritus from the old tank and transferring that to the new. It's interesting to think about how well the bacteria must be at processing nitrates from all of the crud thats stored in a tank. I can maintain Nitrates as low as I'd like even with this large store of crud in the sand.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by devastator007

Sounds good. I ended up transfering one solo cup of uncleaned sand to the new tank last night along with all of the cleaned sand. Didn't look as dirty as I've seen it before, so I don't think I would have polutted my tank very much from the one cup.

I remember from my past forum readings every time an experianced reefer talks about moving to a new tank, the concensus seems to be to start with new sand. To me, there's little differance between new sand and old sand cleaned well. Both will be rinsed untill clear anyways. I feel better about having saved a cup uncleaned, but would likely be fine if I didn't as well. I think the only bad answer would be to transfer all of the sand uncleaned and stir up all of the detritus from the old tank and transferring that to the new. It's interesting to think about how well the bacteria must be at processing nitrates from all of the crud thats stored in a tank. I can maintain Nitrates as low as I'd like even with this large store of crud in the sand.

yes.. well cleaned "old" sand is fine.. I personally would rather spend the little money to just buy new sand vs take the time/water/energy to clean the old stuff..

And yes..One can easily have tons of "crud/mulm/detritus" collecting in the sand bed or bottom of your sump (1/2" or more for me at this time) and not have any measurable nitrate/nutrient problem..
I would be considered "POC" particulate organic carbon or "POM" particulate organic matter.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.php

[davocean]

Most of your beneficial life will be in the top half inch of sand, That is what I'd keep, or really even just a scoop from the top half will seed the new sand.

I would take this opportunity to replace w/ new, dry sand, and I would use dry over store bought live sand.

[McPuff]

I seeded my 300 with about two cups of dirty sand from my 120. It only took about two weeks for the new sand to be fully colonized with "stuff." I could tell by looking through the bottom of the tank. Was pretty amazed at how fast it happened.

[EdgeN]

I would probably siphon off the first 1/4" or so and keep it alive in a bucket until need be. Don't really expect to dodge a cycle by doing this, but sometimes it's amazing how much life can overcome those high levels. GL.

[OurCoralReef]

Personally i would start over with a fresh cycle your tank is going to cycle anyway you might as well control what you put in and avoid putting “bad” stuff into your new system

Are you transferring your rock

Are you fighting nitrates or phosphates in your current system


I have used redsea kit on multiple tanks and very happy with great results
https://amzn.to/2SrK3Tw

Fritz is good for additional bacteria
https://amzn.to/2yKKnoz

DR Tims
https://amzn.to/2CMBptM

[AlSimmons]

Originally Posted by EdgeN

I would probably siphon off the first 1/4" or so and keep it alive in a bucket until need be. Don't really expect to dodge a cycle by doing this, but sometimes it's amazing how much life can overcome those high levels. GL.

+1

If you've got the money to kill all that what might have been in that old sand then by all means knock yourself out. (the top layer)

[davocean]

Originally Posted by OurCoralReef

Personally i would start over with a fresh cycle your tank is going to cycle anyway you might as well control what you put in and avoid putting “bad” stuff into your new system

Are you transferring your rock

Are you fighting nitrates or phosphates in your current system


I have used redsea kit on multiple tanks and very happy with great results
https://amzn.to/2SrK3Tw

Fritz is good for additional bacteria
https://amzn.to/2yKKnoz

DR Tims
https://amzn.to/2CMBptM

Lots of people swap up doubling in size, and using what they have for established LR and experience no real cycle.

[d-man]

I’d use and DID use all new sand. Keep in mind that ich falls off the fish and will sit on the sand bed/bottom of the tank. Now you are just introducing it into your new tank rather than starting fresh. But that’s with a completely new start up. If you’re using the same rock, etc, then You decide what to do. I did a full acid bath on my rock, new sand and complete QT for all my stuff so that’s just me. I cycled new rock in a dark bin for a few weeks and added that to the sand in the new tank to help seed. My tank is a lil larger(960g) so it’ll take a lil while to seed correctly anyway

[OurCoralReef]

Originally Posted by davocean

Lots of people swap up doubling in size, and using what they have for established LR and experience no real cycle.

I don’t agree
I have personally seen even small changes in an established reef cause a small cycle

[davocean]

Originally Posted by OurCoralReef

I don’t agree
I have personally seen even small changes in an established reef cause a small cycle

Well, in my 33 years in the hobby and countless swaps, as well as much of my reading here, I can easily say many of us have had positive experiences doing this.

As long as you have enough established LR going into new system it's generally not an issue.

I used to beta test equipment for a company nearby, I may not hold the record for number of swaps and upgrades but I'm probably up there!

[OurCoralReef]

Originally Posted by davocean

Well, in my 33 years in the hobby and countless swaps, as well as much of my reading here, I can easily say many of us have had positive experiences doing this.



As long as you have enough established LR going into new system it's generally not an issue.



I used to beta test equipment for a company nearby, I may not hold the record for number of swaps and upgrades but I'm probably up there!

Im sorry but really?

In your 33 years plus swaps
who sees a cycle at a swap

It seems like your trying to say you have more experience than me and since you have more experience you are right

I have about 15 years in the aquarium trade and even though thats not “33 years, many swaps and testing equipment” i have seen and dealt with my share of reef keeping

Upgrading a tank will make you have some sort of cycle
Cyano, diatoms, algae
Guaranteed

I was telling op that if you are going to go through it anyway you might as well start with clean sand and add the correct bacteria they want to start with

If you don’t agree make your point and we can let op decide

[davocean]

No my point in saying I'm not saying I hold any records or anything is trying to say I'm not treating it like a contest, I'm just saying I have a lot of years of observation, and probably a lot more swapping experience than most.

And I disagree, cyano and diatoms are not always present or considered part of a cycle

I see far too often other reefers posting on here that double up w/out issues

[OurCoralReef]

Originally Posted by davocean

No my point in saying I'm not saying I hold any records or anything is trying to say I'm not treating it like a contest, I'm just saying I have a lot of years of observation, and probably a lot more swapping experience than most.

And I disagree, cyano and diatoms are not always present or considered part of a cycle

I see far too often other reefers posting on here that double up w/out issues

Sorry if i wasn’t clear
By saying some sort or cycle meaning at least one if not all three and more

Its ok if we don’t agree
if experience taught me anything there are a bunch of ways to reef

[davocean]

Originally Posted by OurCoralReef

Its ok if we don’t agree
if experience taught me anything there are a bunch of ways to reef

I do agree w/ this, you are telling OP expect some negative side affects, and I'm telling OP it might be a positive experience w/out negative side affects...

[ReefsandGeeks]

I ended up transferring everything to my new tank and all is going well so far. I ended up first adding my new (dry) sand that was well rinsed. Then I added a cup of old unrinsed sand, then added a bunch of old but very well cleaned sand, and finally topped off with a cup of old un-rinsed sand. I also transfered over alot of LR from my last tank, and a large canister filter full of Matrix and LR rubble was rinsed in saltwater and put into my sump in the new tank.

So far, I havne't seen any signs of an amonia cycle, but will keep monitoring. About half of my rock is live and the other half not. I am keeping the same bioload as I had in my previous tank, so I think it will keep up. I'll keep eveyone posted if I find I ahve any issues from transferring this way. I made the move on Thursday night, and a few days alter the tank looks very clean and only a tiny dusting of algea on a little of the sand. I'll check the parameters and see how they are looking. All fish and coral are happy with the move though.

[davocean]

Cool, just stay on top of WC's and all should be good, keep posting and documenting as you go, maybe some pics.