Lightning upgrade

[TDB]

I have a 4 ft 90 gallon display that I want to improve my SPS and LPS coral growth and color. I would like it to be LED and set on my tank and not be hung from the wall or ceiling. What would you suggest to fit those requirements

[lpsouth1978]

I love my Hydra 26 HD's and will be using them on a 75 (which is the same dimensions, just not as tall). 2 will be good for LPS and some SPS placed higher and under the fixtures. Three would be better for all SPS, and three with an Aquatic Life hybrid fixture would allow you to keep any coral you want.

[cvrle1]

Get a 48" Reefbreaders Photon V2+ unit and call it a day. Will grow anything you want, has legs to mount on the tank, has a bunch of features like dawn/dusk, 6 channels of control and costs 1/2 the price of AI, Kessil and Radions

https://www.reefbreeders.com/shop/photon-48-v2/

[TDB]

Does anyone have experience with Mars Aqua lighting ?

[lpsouth1978]

Originally Posted by TDB

Does anyone have experience with Mars Aqua lighting ?

Yes. They can get the job done, but, other than being LED, they don't meet your criteria. They can only be hung above the tank unless you are handy and can make your own mount somehow. I used them for a short time before upgrading to the Hydra's. If you want to go that route, the Reefbreeders Photon V2+ is a much better option. You can also check out the SB Reef lights.

[TDB]

Originally Posted by lpsouth1978

Yes. They can get the job done, but, other than being LED, they don't meet your criteria. They can only be hung above the tank unless you are handy and can make your own mount somehow. I used them for a short time before upgrading to the Hydra's. If you want to go that route, the Reefbreeders Photon V2+ is a much better option. You can also check out the SB Reef lights.

Got it Thanks

[cvrle1]

There is actually a really easy way to make a mount for CBBs. It doesnt look amazing, but it may be good enough for OP. Take a look at this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2622878

As for Mars Aqua lights, they are good enough, and lots of people use them with no issues. With that said, they are as basic as you can get. They have 2 channels to control lights, but you would need to buy some sort of timers from home depot or similar place. Look into Viparspectra or Bloomspect units. They come with timer built in, and price is only $10-$15 more than MA unit. They also have a bit better LED color config as well.

[TDB]

Originally Posted by cvrle1

There is actually a really easy way to make a mount for CBBs. It doesnt look amazing, but it may be good enough for OP. Take a look at this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2622878

As for Mars Aqua lights, they are good enough, and lots of people use them with no issues. With that said, they are as basic as you can get. They have 2 channels to control lights, but you would need to buy some sort of timers from home depot or similar place. Look into Viparspectra or Bloomspect units. They come with timer built in, and price is only $10-$15 more than MA unit. They also have a bit better LED color config as well.

Good information thanks

[Zacktosterone]

if you want good leds go with hydra or radion

[cvrle1]

Originally Posted by Zacktosterone

if you want good leds go with hydra or radion

Curious to hear why you think they are better than something like Reefbreaders unit, or even cheaper Viparspectra or SB Reef lights

[slief]

Originally Posted by cvrle1

Curious to hear why you think they are better than something like Reefbreaders unit, or even cheaper Viparspectra or SB Reef lights

Better control, better build quality & better quality LED’s which should result in increased longevity. There is also better post warranty support when it comes to getting parts & repairability. I’d also throw a vote in for GHL Mitras LX7206’s. They compare very favorably to the Radion G4 Pro’s but are higher build quality IMO.

[Bryanmc1988]

There is a reason why it’s $500+ over a $100 light. You get what you paid for to be honest. Some lights are cheap and that does t mean it can’t grow corals, just means your limited to the types of corals you can keep.

[Zacktosterone]

Originally Posted by cvrle1

Curious to hear why you think they are better than something like Reefbreaders unit, or even cheaper Viparspectra or SB Reef lights

I just returned my viparspectra that didn't last 3 weeks because 1. It didn't come with a power cord (i had to buy one) 2. The blue channel completely died, and 3. The customer service was terrible.

So I've run radions, kessils, ati led powermodule, and halide.

I personally run halide 400 watt 10 k. When I ran radions my results were great. Would I recommend an SB reeflight? Yes because the spectrum is good a d the actual leds arnt cheap

But SB is more expensive than your typical black box... So it doesn't cost much more to get an AI product. I've had good progress with radion g3 pros but by the time I upgraded my tank, to get the same light saturation would of cost a fortune. So my opinion comes from experience

[lpsouth1978]

Originally Posted by cvrle1

Curious to hear why you think they are better than something like Reefbreaders unit, or even cheaper Viparspectra or SB Reef lights

Let me suggest a couple more reasons why I switched to Hydra's from Mars Aqua.

1 - Already mentioned, but controlability. With the exception of the Reefbreeders, the only control you have with any of the CBB's is changin intensity on 2 channels (blue, and everything else).

2 - Disco ball effect is MUCH worse with the LED's spread over a large area. By having all of the LED's in a cluster like AI and Radions, you reduce or eliminate the disco ball effect and have less color separation.

3 - Build quality and quality control is much better, as is the research that goes into the build.

4 - Support is all but non-existent on most CBB's, with the exception of the Reefbreeders. If something comes up, good luck getting help from the manufacturer.

This does not mean that the cheap CBB's will not grow corals, they certainly will. It just means that there are definite advantages to getting I higher quality (and priced) light from the start.

[cvrle1]

Originally Posted by slief

Better control, better build quality & better quality LED’s which should result in increased longevity. There is also better post warranty support when it comes to getting parts & repairability. I’d also throw a vote in for GHL Mitras LX7206’s. They compare very favorably to the Radion G4 Pro’s but are higher build quality IMO.

Those are valid points definitely. Thanks

Originally Posted by Bryanmc1988

There is a reason why it’s $500+ over a $100 light. You get what you paid for to be honest. Some lights are cheap and that does t mean it can’t grow corals, just means your limited to the types of corals you can keep.

3W LED is a 3W LED. Corals will grow same. Many great tanks that run cheaper units, including any SPS they want.

Originally Posted by Zacktosterone

I just returned my viparspectra that didn't last 3 weeks because 1. It didn't come with a power cord (i had to buy one) 2. The blue channel completely died, and 3. The customer service was terrible.

So I've run radions, kessils, ati led powermodule, and halide.

I personally run halide 400 watt 10 k. When I ran radions my results were great. Would I recommend an SB reeflight? Yes because the spectrum is good a d the actual leds arnt cheap

But SB is more expensive than your typical black box... So it doesn't cost much more to get an AI product. I've had good progress with radion g3 pros but by the time I upgraded my tank, to get the same light saturation would of cost a fortune. So my opinion comes from experience

Thats crappy to hear about your unit failing. Surprised to hear that power cord was missing. Kinda odd I have to say. As for CS, it can be a hit and miss for some more expensive units as well unfortunately, at least from what I read on here. I think I would go with Photon V2+ before SB, as one unit is all you need for 4 foot tank, vs multiple SB or AI, or other more expensive units.

Originally Posted by lpsouth1978

Let me suggest a couple more reasons why I switched to Hydra's from Mars Aqua.

1 - Already mentioned, but controlability. With the exception of the Reefbreeders, the only control you have with any of the CBB's is changin intensity on 2 channels (blue, and everything else).

2 - Disco ball effect is MUCH worse with the LED's spread over a large area. By having all of the LED's in a cluster like AI and Radions, you reduce or eliminate the disco ball effect and have less color separation.

3 - Build quality and quality control is much better, as is the research that goes into the build.

4 - Support is all but non-existent on most CBB's, with the exception of the Reefbreeders. If something comes up, good luck getting help from the manufacturer.

This does not mean that the cheap CBB's will not grow corals, they certainly will. It just means that there are definite advantages to getting I higher quality (and priced) light from the start.

For me I dont need 6 channels, wifi, apex control ability and so on, but for some they are a must haves, which is fine. Valid points once again. Thanks

[lpsouth1978]

Originally Posted by cvrle1

3W LED is a 3W LED. Corals will grow same. Many great tanks that run cheaper units, including any SPS they want.

I absolutely CANNOT agree with this statement. It is like saying a shoe is a shoe, they both protect your feet. No one here said that the cheap LED's will not grow corals, however coral growth is only part of the equation. Other factors that make one 3W LED better than another may include efficiency, color index, size, degradation, power loss and color shift over time, and longevity. Simply put a car is not a car, a shoe is not a shoe, and a 3W LED is not a 3W LED.

Each of us is welcome to chose the light with the options that fit us and our tanks the best. This does not mean that we all need AI or Radion lights, nor does it mean that no one should use CBB's. What we consider to be the best light for our tanks is very subjective (as has been seen in this thread). However, the fact that some 3W LED's are better than others is just that, a fact.

[Bryanmc1988]

Originally Posted by lpsouth1978

I absolutely CANNOT agree with this statement. It is like saying a shoe is a shoe, they both protect your feet. No one here said that the cheap LED's will not grow corals, however coral growth is only part of the equation. Other factors that make one 3W LED better than another may include efficiency, color index, size, degradation, power loss and color shift over time, and longevity. Simply put a car is not a car, a shoe is not a shoe, and a 3W LED is not a 3W LED.

Each of us is welcome to chose the light with the options that fit us and our tanks the best. This does not mean that we all need AI or Radion lights, nor does it mean that no one should use CBB's. What we consider to be the best light for our tanks is very subjective (as has been seen in this thread). However, the fact that some 3W LED's are better than others is just that, a fact.

I couldn’t agree more. Every LED is build different from different manufacturer. In my post I stated that it can grow corals but the corals it grows are subjective on what you pick or try to grow. You get what you pay for really.

[cvrle1]

Originally Posted by lpsouth1978

I absolutely CANNOT agree with this statement. It is like saying a shoe is a shoe, they both protect your feet. No one here said that the cheap LED's will not grow corals, however coral growth is only part of the equation. Other factors that make one 3W LED better than another may include efficiency, color index, size, degradation, power loss and color shift over time, and longevity. Simply put a car is not a car, a shoe is not a shoe, and a 3W LED is not a 3W LED.

Each of us is welcome to chose the light with the options that fit us and our tanks the best. This does not mean that we all need AI or Radion lights, nor does it mean that no one should use CBB's. What we consider to be the best light for our tanks is very subjective (as has been seen in this thread). However, the fact that some 3W LED's are better than others is just that, a fact.

In all honesty I read this before on RC and the other forum, but I havent seen anyone show any proof of the said things. I am still tying to find evidence that for example Bridgelux Royal Blue (450 nm) is any different that CREE Royal Blue (450nm) What is different are optics used, but that has nothing to do with actual LEDs. I am not saying there isnt potentially any difference, but it is mostly folks who spent a lot of money on their radions, kessils and AIs that throw this into an argument, without any evidence.

Furthermore, there are cheap units that used CREE LEDs as well. See MicMol AquaPro as an example, so "better" LEDs are not exclusive to high end units only.

[Green Chromis]

Originally Posted by slief

Better control, better build quality & better quality LED’s which should result in increased longevity. There is also better post warranty support when it comes to getting parts & repairability. I’d also throw a vote in for GHL Mitras LX7206’s. They compare very favorably to the Radion G4 Pro’s but are higher build quality IMO.

Hi Slief, don't the new Reef Breeders Photons use the same LED'S as the Radion's and Mitra's? My next purchase for LED's will be the Mitra 7206 lights for my main display, and Reef Breeder Photon V2 series lights for my sump and refugium. From what I have seen and read the reef Breeders use the new Cree and Osram lights with Mean Well drivers. The only thing I didn't like about the Photon's was the ramping up and down cycles, which is not nearly as smooth as the Mitra's, and there is no disco ball effect either.

[slief]

Originally Posted by Green Chromis

Hi Slief, don't the new Reef Breeders Photons use the same LED'S as the Radion's and Mitra's? My next purchase for LED's will be the Mitra 7206 lights for my main display, and Reef Breeder Photon V2 series lights for my sump and refugium. From what I have seen and read the reef Breeders use the new Cree and Osram lights with Mean Well drivers. The only thing I didn't like about the Photon's was the ramping up and down cycles, which is not nearly as smooth as the Mitra's, and there is no disco ball effect either.

I doubt it. GHL manufacturers their lights in Germany and are very specific not only about the brand of diode but also the lot quality or binning. Most Chinese built LED fixtures tend to use cheaper diodes and depending on bins, there can be different quality levels even within the same manufacturer. This is why some cheaper fixtures have issues with diodes burning out where as the higher end fixtures don't. This is especially common with blue diodes. At least from what I have seen with some of the Chinese built fixtures and you rarely if ever hear about diodes burning out on fixtures like the GHL's, Kessils or Radions. I think the same can be said about AI's too. Then there is also the cooling. Many black boxes use lighter weight heat sinks where as the higher end fixtures tend to be heavier due to their internal heat sinks and sufficient cooling is VERY important when it comes to the longevity of these fixtures. While you can grow coral under virtually any LED fixture with a sufficient ratio or control of blue to white diodes (typically 3:1), the longevity as a result of bin quality of the LED's, the brand of the LED's used within the fixture as well as thermal management can make a big difference in longevity.

Then there is channel control. While corals get most of the photosynthetic radiation from 420-460nm which is the bluer spectrum, having the ability to fine tune some of the channels give you the ability to bring out colors in coral that you typically won't see under a light with little to no control. Control over individual channels like Hyper Violet, UV and even red and green can have a big impact on how corals appear in our tank. Case in point is that most of the corals we keep in our tanks tend to look pretty dull in the ocean but when placed under synthetic light, can take on a completely different look and show colors you don't ordinarily see in the ocean under natural light. As such, I like having additional control over the individual led channels as a little tweak here or there can really help to make some colors in corals pop.

[Green Chromis]

Originally Posted by slief

I doubt it. GHL manufacturers their lights in Germany and are very specific not only about the brand of diode but also the lot quality or binning. Most Chinese built LED fixtures tend to use cheaper diodes and depending on bins, there can be different quality levels even within the same manufacturer. This is why some cheaper fixtures have issues with diodes burning out where as the higher end fixtures don't. This is especially common with blue diodes. At least from what I have seen with some of the Chinese built fixtures and you rarely if ever hear about diodes burning out on fixtures like the GHL's, Kessils or Radions. I think the same can be said about AI's too. Then there is also the cooling. Many black boxes use lighter weight heat sinks where as the higher end fixtures tend to be heavier due to their internal heat sinks and sufficient cooling is VERY important when it comes to the longevity of these fixtures. While you can grow coral under virtually any LED fixture with a sufficient ratio or control of blue to white diodes (typically 3:1), the longevity as a result of bin quality of the LED's, the brand of the LED's used within the fixture as well as thermal management can make a big difference in longevity.

Then there is channel control. While corals get most of the photosynthetic radiation from 420-460nm which is the bluer spectrum, having the ability to fine tune some of the channels give you the ability to bring out colors in coral that you typically won't see under a light with little to no control. Control over individual channels like Hyper Violet, UV and even red and green can have a big impact on how corals appear in our tank. Case in point is that most of the corals we keep in our tanks tend to look pretty dull in the ocean but when placed under synthetic light, can take on a completely different look and show colors you don't ordinarily see in the ocean under natural light. As such, I like having additional control over the individual led channels as a little tweak here or there can really help to make some colors in corals pop.

Thanks, didn't know GHL uses a certain type of Diodes, and certain bins of the LED's. good thing to know. I just don't feel like buying the Mitra's for my sump and Refuge, probably need six more lights for them, and lighting the main display tank will be bad enough. How do you like the Mitra's as far as spread do you really get a 30" x 24" spread for each light, or should I use something like a 24" x 18" spread for each light to deal with the shadowing effect, when the SPS corals grow out.

[slief]

Originally Posted by Green Chromis

Thanks, didn't know GHL uses a certain type of Diodes, and certain bins of the LED's. good thing to know. I just don't feel like buying the Mitra's for my sump and Refuge, probably need six more lights for them, and lighting the main display tank will be bad enough. How do you like the Mitra's as far as spread do you really get a 30" x 24" spread for each light, or should I use something like a 24" x 18" spread for each light to deal with the shadowing effect, when the SPS corals grow out.

As far as I am aware, most if not all high end fixture manufacturers are very specific about the brand and diodes they use. And different NM diodes often call for different manufacturers of the diodes themselves due to quality, light output and how they hold their color over time. As such, you can expect diodes from different manufacturers in any given fixture but most high end light manufacturers choose each diode manufacturer by the quality of the diode for each color/NM where as most black box manufacturers will choose manufacturers based on the cost of the diode as opposed to output or longevity.

As for the Mitras, I really like them. I’ve got a lot of different lights that I’ve both played with and used and the Mitras top that list. As for spread, I would definitely say 30x24 is not a problem with them. They are super powerful and the 6 clusters provide great even spread. As such, raising them enough will get you better spread which you can compensate for by increasing intensity. That said, I don’t think they would be ideal for a refugium let alone a sump. Way overkill and really not an ideal spectrum mix for a refugium.

[Green Chromis]

Ok, thanks. I will go with the Mitra's for the display tank, and the cheaper Reef Breeders for the sump and fuge.

[becon776]

reefbreeders are ALLLL cree.

[slief]

Originally Posted by becon776

reefbreeders are ALLLL cree.

I think you are incorrect. The Photon V2 for example uses a mix of CREE, OSRAM and Semi LED. CREE makes arguably the best cool white diodes (watt for lumen) but not necessarily the best blue, hyper violet, 420nm UV etc in terms of light output and being true to color. This is why high end fixture companies use different manufacturer diodes for different color channels as some diode manufacturers have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to the color and output along with longevity in holding color.

Here is a great bit of information about different LED colors as it relates to our hobby and explains how even the same manufacturer LED in the same color/nm can vary from one BIN to the next. A key reason why high end fixture manufacturers actually control the LED bin lots they use in their fixtures. This article is a tad bit dated but still very relevant.
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/4/lighting