Mystery Fish Mass Die-Off, Looking for Some Advice

cody6766 · 01/06/2019, 10:34 AM

I think not QT'ing my fish finally bit me after 10 years in the hobby. Within a couple of days I lost my anthias, kole tang, clown fish and coral beauty angel. Today I found my nassarius snails doing what they do best, cleaning up my dead chromis. I have a lone YWG in the tank now, and wouldn't be surprised if he croaked in a couple of days. All of this happened within a week and there were no signs of illness until the fish died.

Based on the sources of the fish, I suspect the kole tang to be the source of the illness. He was a Pet Co fish and the rest of the fish came from LFSs that QT their fish before selling them. Lesson learned...QT, especially when coming from a less than awesome source.

It sucks to lose a tank full of fish, but so goes life in the reef hobby. The last thing I want to do is toss more fish into a diseased tank. Assuming the YWG dies, how long should I let the tank sit before adding more fish? I'm sure there's a point where whatever killed the fish will eventually die off, but I don't know how long to wait. I also have no clue what killed them and I know that makes advice harder to give. I can tell you that it wasn't ick and there were no external sores/spots. The fish were very active until they died. I did notice that the male clownfish was swimming erratically right before he died. It was a rapid onset and he died shortly after. All others died over night.

So, based on what we know COULD be out there, how long should I wait for it to run its course?

Anemone · 01/06/2019, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody6766

I can tell you that it wasn't ick and there were no external sores/spots. The fish were very active until they died.

This sounds more like a poisoning/pollution issue. What do you feed? Any recent cleaning/pesticide events at home? How long did this event take? How long after you added the tang did it begin?

Kevin

ca1ore · 01/06/2019, 12:21 PM

Hard to say. The lack of observable external symptoms would seem to eliminate ich, velvet, brook or uronema. Bacterial infections usually just hit weakened fish (since the bacteria are always present). Even vibrio/marine tuberculosis will have ulceration symptoms. Worms don’t kill that fast. Some kind of poisinning seems as good a theory as any. I’d run carbon, maybe a poly filter, and give it a month and then try an inexpensive, hardy fish.

cody6766 · 01/06/2019, 02:47 PM

I feed frozen cubes, the same stuff I've been using for many months in this tank. We haven't sprayed the house in a couple of months and nobody uses cleaning products near the tank.

The whole process has been going on for a week or a week and a half. It started about a week or two after adding the tang. The clowns were the most recent addition and they took around a week to die. The anthias was the first to go, followed by the tang and angel, one clown, then the other, and finally the chromis. I don't think the clowns brought anything in. They were tank raised, from a reputable source and kept in the store's frag tank in a large group.>

Edit: I just realized that the timeline makes it look like I added the clowns while everything was starting to die. I added them a few days before the first fish died and they took around a week to die after being added, plus or minus a couple of days.

TheCamaroShow · 01/06/2019, 10:41 PM

one bad fish can ruin a whole tank always qt sorry for your loss man.

cody6766 · 01/06/2019, 11:11 PM

That's my assumption. 10 years of not QT'ing fish and it finally bit me. I can't be too mad considering all the success. I mean, it sucks that animals died, but at least my tank isn't big enough to be full of hundreds of dollars of awesome that march one by one down the toilet.

I'll probably set up a QT tank, or at least stick to the places I know QT their fish when they get them from their suppliers. I think that is what kept me safe this whole time. Luckily, OK has a bunch of good LFSs run by honest folks who try their best to sell safe critters.

BFG · 01/07/2019, 02:01 PM

Might it be stray electric causing the mass die off ? 10 years in the hobby , something might have give ?

lolgranny · 01/07/2019, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFG

Might it be stray electric causing the mass die off ? 10 years in the hobby , something might have give ?

Stray voltage wouldn’t do that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dmorty217 · 01/07/2019, 07:11 PM

Did you notice any fish hanging out in front of a powerhead? When you get fish from a wholesaler or LFS they often have low levels of copper in the system which only masks symptoms of disease unfortunately and lots of places do this. With as quickly and the mass die off it was either bacterial which you would of noticed on your fish or it was velvet which by the time you see symptoms/spots it’s usually too late

Joe0813 · 01/07/2019, 08:44 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if it was velvet that was brought in by the kole

cody6766 · 01/07/2019, 10:19 PM

I did notice the chromis hanging out with in the powerhead a day before he died. After reading up on velvet, it looks like this may be the culprit. That's good an bad news, honestly. Right now the goby is hanging on and therefore would be a carrier. Getting him out would take a tank tear down, so I'm going to have to wait for him to die or until I can catch him and let the tank lay fallow.

I never noticed any spots on the fish, but they could have been barely recognizable or not showing externally in any substantial amount.

Dmorty217 · 01/08/2019, 08:49 AM

Velvet is harder to spot than ich due to how quickly it kills and if you see spots its 99% of the time too late to save the fish. Usually its behavior that will change that indicates velvet not the spots. The goby is immune but a carrier like you said and will need to be treated before being reintroduced to the DT

01/06/2019, 10:34 AM	#1
cody6766 Super Best Friends! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 3,772	Mystery Fish Mass Die-Off, Looking for Some Advice I think not QT'ing my fish finally bit me after 10 years in the hobby. Within a couple of days I lost my anthias, kole tang, clown fish and coral beauty angel. Today I found my nassarius snails doing what they do best, cleaning up my dead chromis. I have a lone YWG in the tank now, and wouldn't be surprised if he croaked in a couple of days. All of this happened within a week and there were no signs of illness until the fish died. Based on the sources of the fish, I suspect the kole tang to be the source of the illness. He was a Pet Co fish and the rest of the fish came from LFSs that QT their fish before selling them. Lesson learned...QT, especially when coming from a less than awesome source. It sucks to lose a tank full of fish, but so goes life in the reef hobby. The last thing I want to do is toss more fish into a diseased tank. Assuming the YWG dies, how long should I let the tank sit before adding more fish? I'm sure there's a point where whatever killed the fish will eventually die off, but I don't know how long to wait. I also have no clue what killed them and I know that makes advice harder to give. I can tell you that it wasn't ick and there were no external sores/spots. The fish were very active until they died. I did notice that the male clownfish was swimming erratically right before he died. It was a rapid onset and he died shortly after. All others died over night. So, based on what we know COULD be out there, how long should I wait for it to run its course? __________________ "The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments." - John Galt Current Tank Info: Cadlights 60G Arisan II mixed reef with 2x MP40s and 24" ATI

01/06/2019, 12:21 PM	#3
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Hard to say. The lack of observable external symptoms would seem to eliminate ich, velvet, brook or uronema. Bacterial infections usually just hit weakened fish (since the bacteria are always present). Even vibrio/marine tuberculosis will have ulceration symptoms. Worms don’t kill that fast. Some kind of poisinning seems as good a theory as any. I’d run carbon, maybe a poly filter, and give it a month and then try an inexpensive, hardy fish. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

01/06/2019, 02:47 PM	#4
cody6766 Super Best Friends! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 3,772	I feed frozen cubes, the same stuff I've been using for many months in this tank. We haven't sprayed the house in a couple of months and nobody uses cleaning products near the tank. The whole process has been going on for a week or a week and a half. It started about a week or two after adding the tang. The clowns were the most recent addition and they took around a week to die. The anthias was the first to go, followed by the tang and angel, one clown, then the other, and finally the chromis. I don't think the clowns brought anything in. They were tank raised, from a reputable source and kept in the store's frag tank in a large group.> Edit: I just realized that the timeline makes it look like I added the clowns while everything was starting to die. I added them a few days before the first fish died and they took around a week to die after being added, plus or minus a couple of days. __________________ "The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments." - John Galt Current Tank Info: Cadlights 60G Arisan II mixed reef with 2x MP40s and 24" ATI Last edited by cody6766; 01/06/2019 at 03:16 PM.

01/06/2019, 11:11 PM	#6
cody6766 Super Best Friends! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 3,772	That's my assumption. 10 years of not QT'ing fish and it finally bit me. I can't be too mad considering all the success. I mean, it sucks that animals died, but at least my tank isn't big enough to be full of hundreds of dollars of awesome that march one by one down the toilet. I'll probably set up a QT tank, or at least stick to the places I know QT their fish when they get them from their suppliers. I think that is what kept me safe this whole time. Luckily, OK has a bunch of good LFSs run by honest folks who try their best to sell safe critters. __________________ "The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments." - John Galt Current Tank Info: Cadlights 60G Arisan II mixed reef with 2x MP40s and 24" ATI

01/07/2019, 02:01 PM	#7
BFG Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 700	Might it be stray electric causing the mass die off ? 10 years in the hobby , something might have give ? __________________ If you've learnt, teach. If you have, give.

01/06/2019, 10:41 PM	#5
TheCamaroShow Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: northen Wv Posts: 192	one bad fish can ruin a whole tank always qt sorry for your loss man.

01/07/2019, 07:11 PM	#9
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	Did you notice any fish hanging out in front of a powerhead? When you get fish from a wholesaler or LFS they often have low levels of copper in the system which only masks symptoms of disease unfortunately and lots of places do this. With as quickly and the mass die off it was either bacterial which you would of noticed on your fish or it was velvet which by the time you see symptoms/spots it’s usually too late __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

01/07/2019, 08:44 PM	#10
Joe0813 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Boston strong Posts: 2,766	I wouldn't be surprised if it was velvet that was brought in by the kole __________________ Joe and Jenny Current Tank Info: 180 reef

01/07/2019, 10:19 PM	#11
cody6766 Super Best Friends! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 3,772	I did notice the chromis hanging out with in the powerhead a day before he died. After reading up on velvet, it looks like this may be the culprit. That's good an bad news, honestly. Right now the goby is hanging on and therefore would be a carrier. Getting him out would take a tank tear down, so I'm going to have to wait for him to die or until I can catch him and let the tank lay fallow. I never noticed any spots on the fish, but they could have been barely recognizable or not showing externally in any substantial amount. __________________ "The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments." - John Galt Current Tank Info: Cadlights 60G Arisan II mixed reef with 2x MP40s and 24" ATI

01/08/2019, 08:49 AM	#12
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	Velvet is harder to spot than ich due to how quickly it kills and if you see spots its 99% of the time too late to save the fish. Usually its behavior that will change that indicates velvet not the spots. The goby is immune but a carrier like you said and will need to be treated before being reintroduced to the DT __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs