Plumbing advice

ibryson · 02/22/2019, 12:08 PM

I have a 180g reef ready tank with the Mega Flow kit. (2 overflow drains, 2 return pipes). I am using flexible tubing for everything under the stand. The overflow drains go from 1 1/4” to 1” then into the sump. The returns are 3/4”. My question is, do I really need ball/gate valves on the overflow drains if I’m using the reef octopus varios-8 DC pump? I shouldn’t have any need to regulate the overflow amount if I can just adjust the return pump, right?

This is my first time plumbing so I am a little nervous I’m going to mess it up!

ibryson · 02/22/2019, 12:10 PM

Even better, does anyone have pictures of their plumbing setup that is done with flexible tubing? I feel like mine is very simple and I’ve seen very complex manifolds done with PVC so I’m worried I’m missing something.

Conor_K · 02/22/2019, 06:27 PM

I would put valves in. Otherwise you will have to set the pump where yhe drains are happy and not where you may want the flow to be.

Plus there will certiably be times that you want to isolate the tank without letting everything draining into the sump.

The extra level of control the valves provide will be something you’ll wwant long term, no doubt.

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dkeller_nc · 02/22/2019, 07:15 PM

I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion. Because the overflows that you have don't have a secondary emergency drain, you can't convert the primary overflow into a full siphon ala a BeAnAnimal drain setup. And the flow down the drain will be solely controlled by the pump flow (regardless of where the pump flow is set).

The downside to placing a ball or gate valve in-line with an overflow drain is that they act as an obstruction to get potentially glogged with a stray algae blob or a wayward snail. And they will have to be cleaned occasionally to prevent calcifying over and becoming un-adjustable.

However, I would install a check-valve or a ball valve on the return to the tank. That prevents siphoning down into your sump when the pump is turned off for maintenance. Check valves are automatic, but require maintenance to be confident they'll seal in an unexpected power outage. Ball valves will need less frequent maintenance, but will still require soaking in vinegar to remove calcium deposits occasionally.

marcom12345 · 02/22/2019, 07:25 PM

And unions....

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ibryson · 02/22/2019, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion. Because the overflows that you have don't have a secondary emergency drain, you can't convert the primary overflow into a full siphon ala a BeAnAnimal drain setup. And the flow down the drain will be solely controlled by the pump flow (regardless of where the pump flow is set).

The downside to placing a ball or gate valve in-line with an overflow drain is that they act as an obstruction to get potentially glogged with a stray algae blob or a wayward snail. And they will have to be cleaned occasionally to prevent calcifying over and becoming un-adjustable.

However, I would install a check-valve or a ball valve on the return to the tank. That prevents siphoning down into your sump when the pump is turned off for maintenance. Check valves are automatic, but require maintenance to be confident they'll seal in an unexpected power outage. Ball valves will need less frequent maintenance, but will still require soaking in vinegar to remove calcium deposits occasionally.

Would a gate valve work just as well on the return line?

dkeller_nc · 02/22/2019, 10:21 PM

No. What you're looking for is that the tank doesn't siphon down into the sump through the return pump when it's off. In the best case, it's just annoying for the sump to fill up when you turn the pump off for maintenance and the skimmer overflows. In the worst case, your loc-line returns are far enough down in the tank that the sump fills up and then overflows when the power goes out - typically when you're at work or out of town.

ibryson · 02/22/2019, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

No. What you're looking for is that the tank doesn't siphon down into the sump through the return pump when it's off. In the best case, it's just annoying for the sump to fill up when you turn the pump off for maintenance and the skimmer overflows. In the worst case, your loc-line returns are far enough down in the tank that the sump fills up and then overflows when the power goes out - typically when you're at work or out of town.

So I wouldn’t be able to prevent a back siphon with a gate valve? I’m confused on the difference between gate and ball valves

ibryson · 02/22/2019, 10:41 PM

Never mind, a quick google search answered my question! I already ordered two gate valves and BRS doesn’t have an option to cancel my order so I’ll just return them and order a ball valve!

dkeller_nc · 02/23/2019, 07:28 AM

Don't. What you want on the return lines is a check valve. This is a passive device (i.e., you don't adjust it), and it works automatically to close the fluid path when you turn the flow off or you suffer a power failure.

Here's one example of one of these - keep in mind that you will have to either buy hose-barb fittings to glue into both sides of this valve to use it with soft tubing, or use rigid PVC for at least some of your return plumbing to incorporate it.

And I wouldn't return your gate valves, nor substitute them for ball valves. Having a gate valve on both returns in your tank will allow you to balance the flow from one pump between the two returns. That is, if you're planning on using one pump. Many folks with two returns on their tank choose to use 2 smaller pumps, one connected to one return and the other pump connected to the other return. That gives you a bit of a safety margin if one pump dies, since in most cases your heater(s) will be in the sump, so if there's no return flow to the tank, the tank water isn't heated.

dkeller_nc · 02/23/2019, 07:41 AM

One other tidbit. If this is your first tank with overflows returns and a sump, I'd highly advise watching a few of BRS's videos on plumbing. Depending on how many you watch, you might spend an hour viewing them, and that hour will pay you back by avoiding hours of potential frustration, and maybe even quite a few $$ by avoiding a mistake. Here's a few that I just googled to get you started, and you can find more on their YouTube channel or on their website:

Plumbing a Return Manifold

Plumbing and Overflows

Top Ten Favorite Plumbing Fittings

Ultra Low Maintenance Tank Plumbing

02/22/2019, 12:08 PM	#1
ibryson Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Missouri Posts: 73	Plumbing advice I have a 180g reef ready tank with the Mega Flow kit. (2 overflow drains, 2 return pipes). I am using flexible tubing for everything under the stand. The overflow drains go from 1 1/4” to 1” then into the sump. The returns are 3/4”. My question is, do I really need ball/gate valves on the overflow drains if I’m using the reef octopus varios-8 DC pump? I shouldn’t have any need to regulate the overflow amount if I can just adjust the return pump, right? This is my first time plumbing so I am a little nervous I’m going to mess it up!

02/22/2019, 12:10 PM	#2
ibryson Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Missouri Posts: 73	Even better, does anyone have pictures of their plumbing setup that is done with flexible tubing? I feel like mine is very simple and I’ve seen very complex manifolds done with PVC so I’m worried I’m missing something.

02/22/2019, 06:27 PM	#3
Conor_K Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Canandaigua, NY Posts: 152	I would put valves in. Otherwise you will have to set the pump where yhe drains are happy and not where you may want the flow to be. Plus there will certiably be times that you want to isolate the tank without letting everything draining into the sump. The extra level of control the valves provide will be something you’ll wwant long term, no doubt. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

02/22/2019, 07:15 PM	#4
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion. Because the overflows that you have don't have a secondary emergency drain, you can't convert the primary overflow into a full siphon ala a BeAnAnimal drain setup. And the flow down the drain will be solely controlled by the pump flow (regardless of where the pump flow is set). The downside to placing a ball or gate valve in-line with an overflow drain is that they act as an obstruction to get potentially glogged with a stray algae blob or a wayward snail. And they will have to be cleaned occasionally to prevent calcifying over and becoming un-adjustable. However, I would install a check-valve or a ball valve on the return to the tank. That prevents siphoning down into your sump when the pump is turned off for maintenance. Check valves are automatic, but require maintenance to be confident they'll seal in an unexpected power outage. Ball valves will need less frequent maintenance, but will still require soaking in vinegar to remove calcium deposits occasionally.

02/22/2019, 07:25 PM	#5
marcom12345 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Battle creek, Michigan Posts: 101	And unions.... Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

02/22/2019, 10:21 PM	#7
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	No. What you're looking for is that the tank doesn't siphon down into the sump through the return pump when it's off. In the best case, it's just annoying for the sump to fill up when you turn the pump off for maintenance and the skimmer overflows. In the worst case, your loc-line returns are far enough down in the tank that the sump fills up and then overflows when the power goes out - typically when you're at work or out of town.

02/22/2019, 10:41 PM	#9
ibryson Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Missouri Posts: 73	Never mind, a quick google search answered my question! I already ordered two gate valves and BRS doesn’t have an option to cancel my order so I’ll just return them and order a ball valve!

02/23/2019, 07:28 AM	#10
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Don't. What you want on the return lines is a check valve. This is a passive device (i.e., you don't adjust it), and it works automatically to close the fluid path when you turn the flow off or you suffer a power failure. Here's one example of one of these - keep in mind that you will have to either buy hose-barb fittings to glue into both sides of this valve to use it with soft tubing, or use rigid PVC for at least some of your return plumbing to incorporate it. And I wouldn't return your gate valves, nor substitute them for ball valves. Having a gate valve on both returns in your tank will allow you to balance the flow from one pump between the two returns. That is, if you're planning on using one pump. Many folks with two returns on their tank choose to use 2 smaller pumps, one connected to one return and the other pump connected to the other return. That gives you a bit of a safety margin if one pump dies, since in most cases your heater(s) will be in the sump, so if there's no return flow to the tank, the tank water isn't heated.

02/23/2019, 07:41 AM	#11
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	One other tidbit. If this is your first tank with overflows returns and a sump, I'd highly advise watching a few of BRS's videos on plumbing. Depending on how many you watch, you might spend an hour viewing them, and that hour will pay you back by avoiding hours of potential frustration, and maybe even quite a few $$ by avoiding a mistake. Here's a few that I just googled to get you started, and you can find more on their YouTube channel or on their website: Plumbing a Return Manifold Plumbing and Overflows Top Ten Favorite Plumbing Fittings Ultra Low Maintenance Tank Plumbing