Naked QT tank questions

Fiish · 08/14/2020, 09:39 PM

Hello everyone, I would like to ask for advice to install a naked quarantine tank, honestly I have done badly with these tanks, the last two fish I had in quarantine died, so I would love to clear my doubts, currently I only have a HOB filter, heater (in case it's necessary), and a lot of pvc, my doubts are the following:

-Filling the quarantine tank with water from my main tank will work? Or do you think this is the first mistake I'm making?
-What should I do if I have an increase in ammonia levels?
-Changing 25% of water weekly will work? Or should I change more water?
-My plan is to quarantine angels, and I want to use Paraguard only as a preventive and then only observe and make the fish strong through feeding for 2 months. I don't want to use copper if it's not necessary.

joseserrano · 08/15/2020, 01:12 PM

You should be fine with adding tank water. Why do you want to increase ammonia levels? Ammonia is very toxic for fish. With a QT i would base WC on if you need to solve something quickly. Typically the water is medicated and you would not want to take water out, because you would have to add more medication and stress the fish out. I would suggest you look into youtube for more guidance. You may be over thinking and causing more harm than good. Angels also need a decent sized tank, well depending on the angel.

Fiish · 08/15/2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseserrano

You should be fine with adding tank water. Why do you want to increase ammonia levels? Ammonia is very toxic for fish. With a QT i would base WC on if you need to solve something quickly. Typically the water is medicated and you would not want to take water out, because you would have to add more medication and stress the fish out. I would suggest you look into youtube for more guidance. You may be over thinking and causing more harm than good. Angels also need a decent sized tank, well depending on the angel.

Hi, I'm not talking about adding ammonia, I'm asking what to do in case of ammonia spikes. I know these surges can show up in naked quarantine tanks. I only want to add paraguard to the tank for the first few days, and then I don't want to apply any medication unless it's necessary.

Sk8r · 08/15/2020, 02:12 PM

Prime. You need a bottle of Prime. Available online. It detoxs ammonia and deals with chlorine and chloramine. And cleans your hands when you've been using Clorox.

Fiish · 08/15/2020, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Prime. You need a bottle of Prime. Available online. It detoxs ammonia and deals with chlorine and chloramine. And cleans your hands when you've been using Clorox.

Thank you, I just searched for product information. Are you suggesting that I add Prime with every water change? or only if an ammonia peak appears. When I install a naked quarantine tank, I add 60% of the water from the main tank and fill the rest with new water, is this a bad start?

joseserrano · 08/15/2020, 06:05 PM

What do you mean by naked tank? no live rock or biological filtration? Most QT tanks has some form of established bio filter.

Sk8r · 08/15/2020, 06:47 PM

Bare glass, a couple of pipe elbows for shelter for fish. You can run a qt tank with no established filter if you just keep it clean and keep it from cycling. I prefer it, because biofiltration in most small tanks is pretty puny. I'd peronally rather change out filter media, but it's a case of 'choice,' not 'the only way.'

Ammonia is the thing most to fear. And its presence indicates you don't have a cycled qt OR you don't have one and you're not changing the filter medium often enough. I find pillow-stuffing from, say, Jo Ann's, makes a nice cheap filter medium, tossable. As long as it's changed regularly and kept scrupulously clean, your water will be good. Relying on a 10 to 20 gallon tank's cycled strength is possible with care, but you do have to watch it---an ammonia test patch is a good idea. But if you're gone for most of the day and didn't check it that morning, that can be a problem.

Fiish · 08/15/2020, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseserrano

What do you mean by naked tank? no live rock or biological filtration? Most QT tanks has some form of established bio filter.

I mean just a hob filter, thermostat and pvc to shelter the fish and nothing else.

Fiish · 08/15/2020, 08:04 PM

My other idea is to install two tanks of 30 or 40 gallons each, and connect them to a sump; take some rocks out of my main system and put them in the quarantine tanks with shelter for the fish supplying the pvc

Sk8r · 08/15/2020, 09:16 PM

Tanks that share a sump are the same tank. Also goes for your lfs tanks.

Fiish · 08/15/2020, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Tanks that share a sump are the same tank. Also goes for your lfs tanks.

I know, but what worries me is the ammonia peak, if it appears to me, what should I do?
In your previous post, you mentioned that changing the filter material frequently would work. But how do I create a biological strain that allows me to deal with the levels?

Fiish · 08/15/2020, 09:37 PM

This happened the last time I tried a naked quarantine tank:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2702657

Hellsangelbx · 08/17/2020, 03:12 PM

Who has had the most success with QT Tanks. WOuld love to see what you came up with

Bruno3047 · 08/17/2020, 05:06 PM

I run a sponge filter in my QT. The QT is always up and running. It’s a good idea to also have circulation in there with a powerhead and spray bar to keep the algae growth down. I’ve never had any luck with setting up my QT and then dismantling it when finished. Ammonia spikes always happened, in which case then, what’s the point? Also, I ALWAYS use DT water to fill the QT (100% water change and clean the sponge filter IN OLD TANK WATER ONLY) when I’m expecting to add a new specimen. And then of course replace the DT water with new water.

I tried to post a photo of my QT as I have a Flame Angel in there right now who I put in time-out for bad behavior. But I wasn’t able to do it. If I figure out what I’m doing wrong, I’ll post it to this thread.

Fiish · 08/18/2020, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno3047

I run a sponge filter in my QT. The QT is always up and running. It’s a good idea to also have circulation in there with a powerhead and spray bar to keep the algae growth down. I’ve never had any luck with setting up my QT and then dismantling it when finished. Ammonia spikes always happened, in which case then, what’s the point? Also, I ALWAYS use DT water to fill the QT (100% water change and clean the sponge filter IN OLD TANK WATER ONLY) when I’m expecting to add a new specimen. And then of course replace the DT water with new water.

I tried to post a photo of my QT as I have a Flame Angel in there right now who I put in time-out for bad behavior. But I wasn’t able to do it. If I figure out what I’m doing wrong, I’ll post it to this thread.

If you can get the photo of your quarantine tank, it would be great. I had read about keeping a quarantine tank running all the time, I thought it's an excellent idea, I currently have a 30 gallon tank that has a 5 "DSB and a few pounds of rock taken from my main tank, and about 20 pounds of sand also from my main system, and that tank I am going to connect to a 120 Gallon system in a few months, but I started cycling a month ago, and I only have one Chromis scotti as an inhabitant. My point is that the last two quarantine tanks that I have had they have failed due to ammonia peaks (you can see the link I put in). These tanks have only had a hob filter, pvc and water, and although I have seen several successful quarantine tanks in this way, but I think putting some rocks or even some sand in my next QT tank would help minimize the danger of ammonia spikes.

Michael Hoaster · 08/18/2020, 01:26 PM

Absolutely put a rock or two and some sand (from your cycled display) in your QT. No ammonia issue. Problem solved. I also add a macro algae or two. Not only will sand, rocks and plants keep ammonia at bay, it will make your new fish a lot less traumatized from its trip around the world to your tank.

Fiish · 08/20/2020, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Absolutely put a rock or two and some sand (from your cycled display) in your QT. No ammonia issue. Problem solved. I also add a macro algae or two. Not only will sand, rocks and plants keep ammonia at bay, it will make your new fish a lot less traumatized from its trip around the world to your tank.

Perfect, I think I'm going to use the rocks that I have in the 30 gallon tank, add a few more rocks from the main tank and some sand, and install it as soon as I get a chance.

Fiish · 01/12/2021, 12:46 PM

Hello again, I will most likely install a 50 gallon quarantine tank, I'm thinking of adding butterflies to my main tank and I definitely need a quarantine if I am to successfully keep these fish. I'm going to add biological material from the established tanks, I have a 30 gallon nano that I install for an multifasciatus or aurantia angelfish. And I'll also put up an ammonia alert clip and hiding places for the fish.
I only have doubts about the routine in the qt, I know that several use cupramine and prazi, sometimes up to two or three rounds, but I'm worried that cupramine is very aggressive, is it possible to replace it with paraguard? Besides prazi is there any other recommended medicine to combat internal parasites?

Imaexpat2 · 01/13/2021, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellsangelbx

Who has had the most success with QT Tanks. WOuld love to see what you came up with

Im mainly a coral guy but sometimes do have some smallish fish to QT. Here is my set up...

6 Gallon Cube Tank
AC 30 HOB filter
100 watt heater
Kessil A80 Tuna Blue Light

Been using this set up for a couple of years and find it to be the cats meow. I do completely drain and kill off this tank and allow it to dry several days befor I put it into action again for the next new coral or fish.

Fiish · 01/13/2021, 11:56 AM

I'm sure it is better to always run the QT tanks and not uninstall them.

Michael Hoaster · 01/13/2021, 01:11 PM

"I'm sure it is better to always run the QT tanks and not uninstall them."

Not if you want to be absolutely sure your QT is free of pathogens. If you don't start out with a 'clean slate' you'll never be sure that your QT is not the source of the problem.

For example: Uronema. This parasite needs no fish host to survive. So if you've had it, you still do. Unless you sterilize. Uronema is more and more prevalent in the hobby, and it kills very fast.

Honestly, I felt the same way you do, until I watched fish after fish succumb and die. Having a stable QT with well established bacterial filtration sounds ideal, but that is not the priority for QT. You can add sand, rocks, PVC and macro algae to help lower stress and ammonia, but once treatment is over, toss all but the PVC, which you can sterilize. Bleach sterilize everything wet.

Fiish · 01/13/2021, 06:08 PM

Excellent answer, so it suggests that I dispose of all the biological material that I added to the qt and put in new when another fish enters a new treatment, does not it?
What do you think about using paraguard instead of cupramine?

Michael Hoaster · 01/13/2021, 06:35 PM

"Excellent answer, so it suggests that I dispose of all the biological material that I added to the qt and put in new when another fish enters a new treatment, does not it?"

Yes it does.

"What do you think about using paraguard instead of cupramine?"

I'm not familiar with those products, but I think they are copper, right? In my opinion, copper is too dangerous and I use hypo salinity. Tank transfer method is maybe better. I haven't tried it.

Imaexpat2 · 01/13/2021, 07:15 PM

I kill off my QT tank everytime I am finished using it for a coral or fish for all of the reasons Michael Hoaster mentioned previously.

By kill off I drain the tank and allow everything to dry out after a good thorough rinsing and cleaning before using again. When I need to set it up again, I do a water change on my established tanks and power up things again for the next victim to do their time in the "SHU". At this point my main over riding goal is to not introduce pest to my main display tanks. Everything else is secondary and there are ways to deal with any other issues.

Fiish · 01/13/2021, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

"Excellent answer, so it suggests that I dispose of all the biological material that I added to the qt and put in new when another fish enters a new treatment, does not it?"

Yes it does.

"What do you think about using paraguard instead of cupramine?"

I'm not familiar with those products, but I think they are copper, right? In my opinion, copper is too dangerous and I use hypo salinity. Tank transfer method is maybe better. I haven't tried it.

Well, doing a quick search I find that Paraguard is aldehyde based, and supposedly not as aggressive as copper (Cupramine) so I'm opting to use Paraguard. What do you use to treat internal parasites with your fish in qt?

08/14/2020, 09:39 PM	#1
Fiish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Mexico Posts: 202	Naked QT tank questions Hello everyone, I would like to ask for advice to install a naked quarantine tank, honestly I have done badly with these tanks, the last two fish I had in quarantine died, so I would love to clear my doubts, currently I only have a HOB filter, heater (in case it's necessary), and a lot of pvc, my doubts are the following: -Filling the quarantine tank with water from my main tank will work? Or do you think this is the first mistake I'm making? -What should I do if I have an increase in ammonia levels? -Changing 25% of water weekly will work? Or should I change more water? -My plan is to quarantine angels, and I want to use Paraguard only as a preventive and then only observe and make the fish strong through feeding for 2 months. I don't want to use copper if it's not necessary. __________________ Lalo J.

08/15/2020, 02:12 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Prime. You need a bottle of Prime. Available online. It detoxs ammonia and deals with chlorine and chloramine. And cleans your hands when you've been using Clorox. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/15/2020, 06:47 PM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Bare glass, a couple of pipe elbows for shelter for fish. You can run a qt tank with no established filter if you just keep it clean and keep it from cycling. I prefer it, because biofiltration in most small tanks is pretty puny. I'd peronally rather change out filter media, but it's a case of 'choice,' not 'the only way.' Ammonia is the thing most to fear. And its presence indicates you don't have a cycled qt OR you don't have one and you're not changing the filter medium often enough. I find pillow-stuffing from, say, Jo Ann's, makes a nice cheap filter medium, tossable. As long as it's changed regularly and kept scrupulously clean, your water will be good. Relying on a 10 to 20 gallon tank's cycled strength is possible with care, but you do have to watch it---an ammonia test patch is a good idea. But if you're gone for most of the day and didn't check it that morning, that can be a problem. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/15/2020, 08:04 PM	#9
Fiish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Mexico Posts: 202	My other idea is to install two tanks of 30 or 40 gallons each, and connect them to a sump; take some rocks out of my main system and put them in the quarantine tanks with shelter for the fish supplying the pvc __________________ Lalo J.

08/15/2020, 09:16 PM	#10
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Tanks that share a sump are the same tank. Also goes for your lfs tanks. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/15/2020, 01:12 PM	#2
joseserrano Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Tustin/Santa ana Posts: 83	You should be fine with adding tank water. Why do you want to increase ammonia levels? Ammonia is very toxic for fish. With a QT i would base WC on if you need to solve something quickly. Typically the water is medicated and you would not want to take water out, because you would have to add more medication and stress the fish out. I would suggest you look into youtube for more guidance. You may be over thinking and causing more harm than good. Angels also need a decent sized tank, well depending on the angel.

08/15/2020, 06:05 PM	#6
joseserrano Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Tustin/Santa ana Posts: 83	What do you mean by naked tank? no live rock or biological filtration? Most QT tanks has some form of established bio filter.

08/15/2020, 09:37 PM	#12
Fiish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Mexico Posts: 202	This happened the last time I tried a naked quarantine tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2702657 __________________ Lalo J.

08/17/2020, 03:12 PM	#13
Hellsangelbx Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 52	Who has had the most success with QT Tanks. WOuld love to see what you came up with

08/17/2020, 05:06 PM	#14
Bruno3047 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,018	I run a sponge filter in my QT. The QT is always up and running. It’s a good idea to also have circulation in there with a powerhead and spray bar to keep the algae growth down. I’ve never had any luck with setting up my QT and then dismantling it when finished. Ammonia spikes always happened, in which case then, what’s the point? Also, I ALWAYS use DT water to fill the QT (100% water change and clean the sponge filter IN OLD TANK WATER ONLY) when I’m expecting to add a new specimen. And then of course replace the DT water with new water. I tried to post a photo of my QT as I have a Flame Angel in there right now who I put in time-out for bad behavior. But I wasn’t able to do it. If I figure out what I’m doing wrong, I’ll post it to this thread. Last edited by Bruno3047; 08/17/2020 at 06:02 PM.

08/18/2020, 01:26 PM	#16
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Absolutely put a rock or two and some sand (from your cycled display) in your QT. No ammonia issue. Problem solved. I also add a macro algae or two. Not only will sand, rocks and plants keep ammonia at bay, it will make your new fish a lot less traumatized from its trip around the world to your tank. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

01/12/2021, 12:46 PM	#18
Fiish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Mexico Posts: 202	Hello again, I will most likely install a 50 gallon quarantine tank, I'm thinking of adding butterflies to my main tank and I definitely need a quarantine if I am to successfully keep these fish. I'm going to add biological material from the established tanks, I have a 30 gallon nano that I install for an multifasciatus or aurantia angelfish. And I'll also put up an ammonia alert clip and hiding places for the fish. I only have doubts about the routine in the qt, I know that several use cupramine and prazi, sometimes up to two or three rounds, but I'm worried that cupramine is very aggressive, is it possible to replace it with paraguard? Besides prazi is there any other recommended medicine to combat internal parasites? __________________ Lalo J.

01/13/2021, 11:56 AM	#20
Fiish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Mexico Posts: 202	I'm sure it is better to always run the QT tanks and not uninstall them. __________________ Lalo J.

01/13/2021, 01:11 PM	#21
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	"I'm sure it is better to always run the QT tanks and not uninstall them." Not if you want to be absolutely sure your QT is free of pathogens. If you don't start out with a 'clean slate' you'll never be sure that your QT is not the source of the problem. For example: Uronema. This parasite needs no fish host to survive. So if you've had it, you still do. Unless you sterilize. Uronema is more and more prevalent in the hobby, and it kills very fast. Honestly, I felt the same way you do, until I watched fish after fish succumb and die. Having a stable QT with well established bacterial filtration sounds ideal, but that is not the priority for QT. You can add sand, rocks, PVC and macro algae to help lower stress and ammonia, but once treatment is over, toss all but the PVC, which you can sterilize. Bleach sterilize everything wet. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

01/13/2021, 06:08 PM	#22
Fiish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Mexico Posts: 202	Excellent answer, so it suggests that I dispose of all the biological material that I added to the qt and put in new when another fish enters a new treatment, does not it? What do you think about using paraguard instead of cupramine? __________________ Lalo J.

01/13/2021, 06:35 PM	#23
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	"Excellent answer, so it suggests that I dispose of all the biological material that I added to the qt and put in new when another fish enters a new treatment, does not it?" Yes it does. "What do you think about using paraguard instead of cupramine?" I'm not familiar with those products, but I think they are copper, right? In my opinion, copper is too dangerous and I use hypo salinity. Tank transfer method is maybe better. I haven't tried it. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

01/13/2021, 07:15 PM	#24
Imaexpat2 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chagos Arch. Posts: 474	I kill off my QT tank everytime I am finished using it for a coral or fish for all of the reasons Michael Hoaster mentioned previously. By kill off I drain the tank and allow everything to dry out after a good thorough rinsing and cleaning before using again. When I need to set it up again, I do a water change on my established tanks and power up things again for the next victim to do their time in the "SHU". At this point my main over riding goal is to not introduce pest to my main display tanks. Everything else is secondary and there are ways to deal with any other issues.