Can I mod Durso to Herbie with this configuration?

[rafini]

Hey Guys I have a 85g aquarium with a 30ish gallon sump with a standard Durso set up.

I know absolutely nothing about plumbing and this aquarium came already with the sump set up.
My gf keeps complaining that it is loud, and I've tried a few modifications to lessen the sound.

I like the idea of a Herbie configuration but I have 2 holes drilled and I am unable to do anymore.

I'll post a picture of the set up for specifics, but a brief description:
A standard Durso overflow that drains by gravity into the sump via a fexible plastic hose.

I was wondering if it would be possible to Branch off that one pipe for both the emergency overflow and the main ? or maybe to silence the durso in the sump?

Does anyone have any ideas and ideally a list of what I would need?

Thanks & have a great day,

Rafini

[Vinny Kreyling]

https://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow...method-basics/

Everything you need to know is there.

[Underwater man]

I'm not gonna go into details but what your describing definitely won't work. I converted my 2 hole overflow to a herbie. I had to reroute the return up and over the back of the tank. It was definitely worth it. It's silent now.

[fishgate]

Here is a video I made that should explain it all.

https://youtu.be/RYhAp6GFNz8

[rafini]

Thanks for the response guys.
I figured as much, the whole point of an additional drain is as a failsafe so combining the two would really do nothing.

Right now the aquarium is freshwater, I'm thinking of converting to saltwater in the next year or so. I'll wait until that time to drain the tank and redo the plumbing.

Thanks for the links, they were very helpful.
I'll save them

[fishgate]

Originally Posted by rafini

Thanks for the response guys.
I figured as much, the whole point of an additional drain is as a failsafe so combining the two would really do nothing.

Right now the aquarium is freshwater, I'm thinking of converting to saltwater in the next year or so. I'll wait until that time to drain the tank and redo the plumbing.

Thanks for the links, they were very helpful.
I'll save them

With an over-the-back return, you certainly can use what you have. You don't need a 3rd drain. Use both holes for a Herbie drain.

[rafini]

Hey Fishgate.

It is getting worse it’s constant gurgling sounds.
I have a canister filter return that I’m sure I could modify.

So the current drain gets cut down to about 2/3 of the tank height and a strainer added. Then the current return gets chopped to slightly above the running water line ?

Underneath the tank:
I know I need to fit a ball valve on the drain but right now it’s just a flexible ribbed hose, I’m not sure how to attach a valve to that, there is a bulkhead connection on the sump but still unsure how to attach this to the hose.

Should The emergency drain be plumber to the final chamber with the return pump?

One last question, can I find these parts I need at a hardware store like Home Depot?

Thanks!
Rafini

[rafini]

I would also like to add that there are two sizes of pipe being used, the main drain is a larger pipe and the return is 3/4” up top and I’m not sure if it’s the same below.
I did try to post a picture earlier but it didn’t work for some reason.

The guide posted above says to use the larger line for the e-drain but for me that one is plumbed into the glass with a bulkhead.
I’m not experienced with plumbing and I’d like to make the least amount of changes as possible.

[Vinny Kreyling]

You Definitely need a GATE VALVE for the main drain, use the present one, 3/4" emergency is plenty for your tank. Bigger & I would change my mind. Although a PITA the valve can be put into the flex hose with nipples on both ends secured by good hose clamps. Your return line will have to come over the back of the tank using the same size as the pump exit. Measure the inside hole of the pipe for sizes. The Gate Valve will most likely have to come from a plumbing supply house.

[fishgate]

Originally Posted by rafini

Hey Fishgate.

It is getting worse it’s constant gurgling sounds.
I have a canister filter return that I’m sure I could modify.

So the current drain gets cut down to about 2/3 of the tank height and a strainer added. Then the current return gets chopped to slightly above the running water line ?

Underneath the tank:
I know I need to fit a ball valve on the drain but right now it’s just a flexible ribbed hose, I’m not sure how to attach a valve to that, there is a bulkhead connection on the sump but still unsure how to attach this to the hose.

Should The emergency drain be plumber to the final chamber with the return pump?

One last question, can I find these parts I need at a hardware store like Home Depot?

Thanks!
Rafini

#1: Dump the canister filter!
#2: Switch to all hard plumbing
#3: Emergency drain? You have 2 drains. 1 is for a full siphon and the other is for an open channel to balance the full siphon. You do not have an emergency drain and with proper design, don't need one. Both the full siphon drain and the open channel drain should go into the 1st sump chamber. Your return pump should go into the return (last) chamber.

You can get most of what you need at Home Depot. The bulkheads and the PVC gate valves you may need to get online it depends on your local HD. I would get all slip fittings. I also suggest a couple of those compression couplings you see in my video they are great. You only need a valve on the full siphon drain. I used them on the open channel but that was just so I could do maintenance but I am finding that I never needed it so it was a waste.

Can you post pics of what you have?

[rafini]

Hey,
I can post pictures later; I’m at work right now.

I picked out a ball valve, and a rubber hose connector piece so I can clamp the rubber hose on to the ball valve.
The guy at Home Depot gave me some pieces to help figure out what size my pipes are.
I have 0 experience with plumbing and I am finding this overwhelming.
My apologies if I was confusing, it was late when I posted. I have a sump, I’m not running a canister however I have a return line from a hydor canister filter that hangs over the tank, I’ll hook that directly up to the pump as it is the same fitting I already checked.

[rafini]

Okay here we go:
This is the two lines I currently have, The flexible hose is the drain. This one will be the 'Open channel drain' The grey PVC 90 degree goes all the way to the pump chamber. This one will be modified down into the first chamber with 2x 45 degree elbows ( This is where I need the help)


This next picture is just a close up of the bulkheads, the rubber hose is to reduce vibration. I'll put a male adaptor in there and clamp it. All the grey pvc stuff is glued and I can't save it except for the long run that I could reuse. It is 3/4" Conduit (Grey pvc)


I apologize in advance for my messy cabinet, I really did not expect to take a picture but as you can see I like to feed a diverse diet to my fish
The pump return hose will go up out of that hole in the top right and hook over the back of the tank.


and Finally, this is the stuff that I picked up today, I can already tell some things are wrong.


Here are the things that I think I'll need in order from the top:
The male adaptor I got is threaded, but the elbows are only push fit (glue) as I had originally planned to put the valve right after the hose.
1* I will need to get a 3/4" non threaded male adaptor
2* non threaded 45 degree PVC elbow
3* small run of 3/4" pvc (the white is sold out, i'll have to get grey)
4* Ball Valve
5* union (need gasket?)
6* small run of pvc pipe
7* non threaded 45 degree PVC elbow
8* small run of 3/4" PVC to about 1.5-2" below water line

Other things I need

x1 Hacksaw (yes... I've been a home owner since just before covid, so I am lacking certain tools)
x2 3/4" male to male adaptor might be needed for return pump, I'll have to see
x3 Glue? what kind do you use for PVC Pipes?
x4 Teflon tape? unsure if this is necesary.

I am sorry, I know that I am asking a lot. This is an 80g system and I really don't want to flood the house. I really do appreciate the help I am receiving here, I actually made this account just to come here as I heard this was the best friendliest place to get help.

And finally, This is a local store here in my city where I can get plumbing parts for aquariums. It is about 45 minute drive for me so If I do go there I'd like to know what I'm getting. Here is their website which lists the parts they carry
https://piscespets.com/collections/p...lacement-parts

Thanks in advance, Rafini

[fishgate]

Originally Posted by rafini

Hey,
I can post pictures later; I’m at work right now.

I picked out a ball valve, and a rubber hose connector piece so I can clamp the rubber hose on to the ball valve.
The guy at Home Depot gave me some pieces to help figure out what size my pipes are.
I have 0 experience with plumbing and I am finding this overwhelming.
My apologies if I was confusing, it was late when I posted. I have a sump, I’m not running a canister however I have a return line from a hydor canister filter that hangs over the tank, I’ll hook that directly up to the pump as it is the same fitting I already checked.

Cool! Post pics when you can.

You are better off with a gate valve. Ball valves are difficult to make fine adjustments. They also tend to freeze up from lack of use eventually. They will work, but not my first choice.

[rafini]

Originally Posted by fishgate

Cool! Post pics when you can.

You are better off with a gate valve. Ball valves are difficult to make fine adjustments. They also tend to freeze up from lack of use eventually. They will work, but not my first choice.

Hey fishgate,
I posted photos late last night, I forgot to quote your post though so you probably didn’t see them, it’s right above your last reply, they came out in a huge format for some reason, they’re just cellphone pics.

I couldn’t find a gate valve in 3/4”
I don’t think I can reuse much of any of the current parts except for the long horizontal run of PVC that I can reuse

[fishgate]

Originally Posted by rafini

Hey fishgate,
I posted photos late last night, I forgot to quote your post though so you probably didn’t see them, it’s right above your last reply, they came out in a huge format for some reason, they’re just cellphone pics.

I couldn’t find a gate valve in 3/4”
I don’t think I can reuse much of any of the current parts except for the long horizontal run of PVC that I can reuse

None of the pics showed up. Did you use the paperclip icon next to the smiley face in the editor window?

PVC gate valves typically need to be ordered online local big box stores rarely stock them. Amazon has them all.

This:

[rafini]

Originally Posted by fishgate

None of the pics showed up. Did you use the paperclip icon next to the smiley face in the editor window?

PVC gate valves typically need to be ordered online local big box stores rarely stock them. Amazon has them all.

This:

Hopefully This works, This is a different system to what I've used on forums

[fishgate]

Ok they showed up this time. So that is not too bad a setup you can work with that. What you want to do is use both of those lines as drains. The black flexible line even though it is on the smaller bulkhead looks like it will be your higher flow rate so you'd want to use that one for the full siphon drain. The corresponding standpipe for that needs to be the LOWER pipe in the overflow. The other one will be your open channel that gets just a trickle of water. If they are already set up the opposite way and you don't want to change them, you could use the grey pipe as the full siphon but you will end up with a lower flow.

You'll need to move the existing return pipe to the same chamber as the full siphon and make it your new open channel drain. Then with those parts you bought, do a new return which will go over the back of the aquarium. The least problematic way to do that is to have the return very close to the surface with some sort of diffuser. If you want to have it lower in the tank, drill a small hole in the return hose just below the waterline so that if it starts a siphon backwards, the hole you drilled will stop the siphon and prevent your sump from flooding.

Do you know what rate your return pump flows? What is the make/model?

One more thing: You will need to put a valve on your main siphon to tune it.

[rafini]

Originally Posted by fishgate

Ok they showed up this time. So that is not too bad a setup you can work with that. What you want to do is use both of those lines as drains. The black flexible line even though it is on the smaller bulkhead looks like it will be your higher flow rate so you'd want to use that one for the full siphon drain. The corresponding standpipe for that needs to be the LOWER pipe in the overflow. The other one will be your open channel that gets just a trickle of water. If they are already set up the opposite way and you don't want to change them, you could use the grey pipe as the full siphon but you will end up with a lower flow.

You'll need to move the existing return pipe to the same chamber as the full siphon and make it your new open channel drain. Then with those parts you bought, do a new return which will go over the back of the aquarium. The least problematic way to do that is to have the return very close to the surface with some sort of diffuser. If you want to have it lower in the tank, drill a small hole in the return hose just below the waterline so that if it starts a siphon backwards, the hole you drilled will stop the siphon and prevent your sump from flooding.

Do you know what rate your return pump flows? What is the make/model?

One more thing: You will need to put a valve on your main siphon to tune it.

Hey fishgate, actually I was planning on leaving the flexible tube as the open channel drain as it’s going to be difficult to find parts and glue to add a valve to that. Apparently the return which is a grey 3/4 pvc will be much easier for me to plumb as a siphon drain.

Right now if I cover the air hole on the drain the tank drains significantly faster than the pump returns water, so I think the smaller drain size might work in my favour.

What do you think?
Thanks, Rafini

[rafini]

I am going to lay everything out at home, and upload a picture here later.
I have everything for the drain except for the length of pvc 3/4”.
The store has no white pipe they do however have grey, and there is grey under there right now. Would it be okay to mix white and grey?

[rafini]

Originally Posted by fishgate

Ok they showed up this time. So that is not too bad a setup you can work with that. What you want to do is use both of those lines as drains. The black flexible line even though it is on the smaller bulkhead looks like it will be your higher flow rate so you'd want to use that one for the full siphon drain. The corresponding standpipe for that needs to be the LOWER pipe in the overflow. The other one will be your open channel that gets just a trickle of water. If they are already set up the opposite way and you don't want to change them, you could use the grey pipe as the full siphon but you will end up with a lower flow.

You'll need to move the existing return pipe to the same chamber as the full siphon and make it your new open channel drain. Then with those parts you bought, do a new return which will go over the back of the aquarium. The least problematic way to do that is to have the return very close to the surface with some sort of diffuser. If you want to have it lower in the tank, drill a small hole in the return hose just below the waterline so that if it starts a siphon backwards, the hole you drilled will stop the siphon and prevent your sump from flooding.

Do you know what rate your return pump flows? What is the make/model?

One more thing: You will need to put a valve on your main siphon to tune it.

Okay Fishgate, Thank you for your patience, I have it laid out now.
Plus a cameo from my not so little helper.

My only concern now is this is going to fit very tight. I need the pipe sections to be very very small. I could only find the threaded ball valve, I may take another look tomorrow to see if I can get the non threaded kind and if it is any shorter than the one I have selected.

There are no threaded 45 degree corners, I may go to Lowes and check their selection just in case, as having threaded corners will drastically save me length.
I need the top vertical riser to be as small as possible.
This will be on the PVC 3/4" line not the flexible tubing.

Does this look okay for now?
I'll update tomorrow

[fishgate]

If what you've laid out is going to be your new return, you don't really need the ball valve. It won't hurt, but since your drains flow much faster than your return, you'll not need to valve it at this point. But you will need to add a valve to the full-siphon drain.

You want your return flow "slighly" higher than your full siphon so that you don't get a flushing effect.

And as you saw, when you drain goes full-siphon it is significantly more flow. It also should end up dead silent.

Mixing white and grey is fine one is schedule 40 and the other probably schedule 80. This just has to do with the pipe's ability to hold pressure, none of which applies to your setup since none of the pressures are anything to worry about.

The main difference between slip and threaded is that threaded is a PITA to get leak free. Get a good thread sealing compound which should be in the same section as the pipe. They have threaded 90s usually they are threaded on the inside (female). Or you can get a thread to slip adapter and glue it in.

[rafini]

Hey fishgate, what I laid out there is going to be the siphon drain. It will be attaching to the drain that is closest to the picture with the grey pvc.
Do I even need a union here? If something went wrong couldn’t I just get the parts again and remake it?

The flexible hose is going to remain as is but be the higher of the two pipes with the trickle, as it is proving impossible to get parts that will work with the flexible pipe (I don’t want to reply back that hole line as well, I have no experience with bulkheads.)

The return line is going to be a simple hook over the back.

Thanks, rafini

[fishgate]

Originally Posted by rafini

Hey fishgate, what I laid out there is going to be the siphon drain. It will be attaching to the drain that is closest to the picture with the grey pvc.
Do I even need a union here? If something went wrong couldn’t I just get the parts again and remake it?

The flexible hose is going to remain as is but be the higher of the two pipes with the trickle, as it is proving impossible to get parts that will work with the flexible pipe (I don’t want to reply back that hole line as well, I have no experience with bulkheads.)

The return line is going to be a simple hook over the back.

Thanks, rafini

Then you are golden. You could skip the union but I would use it since it allows you to spin the plumbing any direction you want so you can adjust it where you need it.

[rafini]

Originally Posted by fishgate

Then you are golden. You could skip the union but I would use it since it allows you to spin the plumbing any direction you want so you can adjust it where you need it.

Awesome! Thank you so much fishgate. I’ll pick up the rest of the stuff in need. I’m going to swap out the valve for a push fitting one to save a little room also.

I’ll let you know how everything turns out

[fishgate]

Originally Posted by rafini

Awesome! Thank you so much fishgate. I’ll pick up the rest of the stuff in need. I’m going to swap out the valve for a push fitting one to save a little room also.

I’ll let you know how everything turns out

As long as you don't mean Shark fittings or any other metal based push fittings. PVC push like larger PEX should be ok as long as there is no metal in them.