keeping hedgehogs w/in salt H20 design?

jellystomper · 03/14/2005, 03:21 AM

Its been known, for quite some time, that hedgehogs and reef animals coexist in a symbiotic relationship as the hedgehogs from coastal regions often wander to tide pools. One example, the "hog" benifits from the Percula clown cleaning parasites and general debris from the "hog" whilst the the hedgehog provides protection for the fish.
Is it possible to maintain hedgehogs in the aqauarium environment?

-=DieselDave=- · 03/14/2005, 04:18 AM

I say what the heck, why not, how about some chickens as well. Just donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t leaven them in to long or they will cause a spike of something nasty when they bloat and rot.

Reefmaniac1 · 03/14/2005, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellystomper
Its been known, for quite some time, that hedgehogs and reef animals coexist in a symbiotic relationship as the hedgehogs from coastal regions often wander to tide pools. One example, the "hog" benifits from the Percula clown cleaning parasites and general debris from the "hog" whilst the the hedgehog provides protection for the fish.
Is it possible to maintain hedgehogs in the aqauarium environment?

I hope that this is a joke...

delor · 03/14/2005, 11:51 AM

How do you acclimate a "hog"? Float em? Drip method? Just drop 'em in and leave 'em alone? Can I put 400 "hogs" in a 10gal tank? How about with a puffer? How often do you have to "slop" the hog?

reed_5point0 · 03/14/2005, 11:52 AM

***!

crzy4reefs · 03/14/2005, 03:16 PM

kinda early for april fools jokes

jellystomper · 03/14/2005, 11:32 PM

SPE934 had wondered about the proper acclimations protocals for coastal hedgehogs. I contacted Dr. Konstantin Petrov at the Wood's Hole project in Bulgaria. He recommended against just "throwing" the "hogs" in the tank. They wouldn't do well because they lack the capacity to derive oxygen from the water.
He insisted, however, that if a hammock were built to dip the hog into the tank periodically this would replicate the natural environment. However, he did contend that if one were to fashion miniaturized scuba gear to the hog this would allow constant interaction between the tank inhabitants and the hog.
Let me know what you discover.
Pictures would help us learn about this unique relationship.
Thanks
Jelly

delor · 03/15/2005, 07:10 AM

Are "hogs" considered Reef Safe or do they need to go in a species only tank? What kind of lighting and flow do they require? Do they eat pellets or do they only eat live food?

PoukieBear · 03/15/2005, 07:58 AM

Your kidding right??

PoukieBear · 03/15/2005, 07:59 AM

lol, i forgott about my sig. i think that sums it up!

Sloth · 03/15/2005, 09:32 AM

I know that porcupines float. Because their spines are hollow. I would imagine hedgehogs would float too. I think you would have to glue the hedgehog to liverock in order to keep it in the water.

Now do these things need direct feedings or can you just add phyto to your sump?

PoukieBear · 03/15/2005, 09:37 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sloth
[B] I think you would have to glue the hedgehog to liverock in order to keep it in the water.

baondayko · 03/15/2005, 10:23 AM

Mine died after three months in the tank. I assume he died because he was missing for some time and my nitrates skyrocketed.

Make sure you get a good clean up crew because hedgehog poop is a tad larger than the normal fish poop.

ribs · 03/15/2005, 11:07 AM

Do you guys attach it to the rock by the "foot" or the rump?
I just want it to hurry up and turn purple to match the rock.

ribs · 03/15/2005, 12:13 PM

Well, I read this from the International Hedgehog Association website
"......with an open top, it must have slippery sides that are at least 12" high and a floor space of at least l6Ã¢â‚¬Â x 24Ã¢â‚¬Â. A 20 gallon aquarium is ideal. It must also have good circulation and be well lit but not exposed to direct sunlight during the daytime. "

Would a MAG5 and one of those PAR38 lights Melevs Bulb be considered good lighting/circulation?

(Maybe this thread should be moved to the Nano forum.)

baondayko · 03/15/2005, 02:13 PM

I normally attach to the rump. The swimming action of its feet will typically allow you to get rid of at least one powerhead.

delor · 03/15/2005, 03:36 PM

Do they require a FW dip prior to placing in your tank? Can you keep more than one in a tank? How about if they are a mated pair?

jellystomper · 03/15/2005, 07:19 PM

Thank you ribs for letting us know about the I.H.A. website I was unaware that the male's "sheath" was so far up the "tummy" i thought it was a second nose.
As far as attaching the hog to rock, Dr. Petrov strongly urges against it. Although no formal documentation on the matter of "forced isolation" has been available, Dr. Petrov reminds us the hedgehog isn't a sessile creation. It needs the freedom and stimulus ro roam about.
Let us know what you discover.
Again, pictures would be helpful.

Neurosis · 03/15/2005, 07:44 PM

I'm sitting back following this thread thinking "WOW" jellystomper really seems serious about this!

Jellystomper, you aren't by anyway related to Puffer21 are you?

ribs · 03/15/2005, 08:11 PM

what is the recommended ratio for inches of habitrail per gallon of saltwater?

DASPES · 03/15/2005, 08:24 PM

Any one else thinking group buy? Also does anyone know if the Red Sea hedgehog is more aggressive?

silkchaos · 03/15/2005, 08:41 PM

Maybe this is a better creature to cycle a tank with! Think of the number of damsels that could be saved.

DASPES · 03/15/2005, 08:42 PM

And they can be used to remove aglea from the glass.

unakidney · 03/15/2005, 09:04 PM

According to the Hedgehog Environmental Liberation League, hedgehogs can be quite volatile when placed in an alien environment. They must be delicately prepared prior to the "drop". There are no hard-and-fast rules, however the following may serve as a suitable example...place the hedgehog in a supine position on a flat surface with soft lighting (preferably candle light), play soothing and intoxicating music such as one would find on a John Tesh album, open a bottle of vintage pinot noir and pour an ounce in an eye-dropper, with rubber sterile gloves (latex-free) stroke the belly of the hedgehog while whispering romantic sonnets in an Italian accent, using the eye-dropper expel the entire ounce of wine directly into the hedgehog's mouth, when the animal is fully relaxed as evidenced by the release of bowel and bladder content, carefully cradle him/her in your palms and procede to "the drop". Hope this helps.

jellystomper · 03/15/2005, 09:21 PM

Unakidney,
thankyou so much for sharing your experience. I've been working with my hogs (Lance, Mellissa, and Shady Daze) for the last several hours. There wasn't much of a response to the music until I switched "Come Flaunt With Me: the Best of John Tesh" to "The Very Serious Business Of Gettin' It On and In General Living by Barry White" The specimens responded with abandon. Mellissa found here own corner as "her" space and Lance and Shady Daze were very persistant in invading said space.
Appreciate the help,
remember photos will give us a better idea how to proceed.
Yours,
Jelly

03/14/2005, 03:21 AM	#1
jellystomper Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Romeo, Mi Posts: 42	keeping hedgehogs w/in salt H20 design? Its been known, for quite some time, that hedgehogs and reef animals coexist in a symbiotic relationship as the hedgehogs from coastal regions often wander to tide pools. One example, the "hog" benifits from the Percula clown cleaning parasites and general debris from the "hog" whilst the the hedgehog provides protection for the fish. Is it possible to maintain hedgehogs in the aqauarium environment?

03/14/2005, 04:18 AM	#2
-=DieselDave=- King of the brown sticks Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lake Stevens Posts: 335	I say what the heck, why not, how about some chickens as well. Just donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t leaven them in to long or they will cause a spike of something nasty when they bloat and rot. __________________ Thank you, David Current Tank Info: Elos System 100, Bubble King Mini160,.

03/14/2005, 11:51 AM	#4
delor Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,124	How do you acclimate a "hog"? Float em? Drip method? Just drop 'em in and leave 'em alone? Can I put 400 "hogs" in a 10gal tank? How about with a puffer? How often do you have to "slop" the hog? __________________ Surviving is different than thriving! Current Tank Info: Current: 90 gal RR reef tank, LED. Old:55gal RR, 440W VHO, 80# LR, LS, 20gal sump, SCWD. 5 gallon nano, 75 gal FOWLR

03/14/2005, 11:52 AM	#5
reed_5point0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Midland, Texas Posts: 197	***! __________________ Reefer 170 (34g) Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24847981#post24847981 Current Tank Info: In Development!!!

03/14/2005, 11:32 PM	#7
jellystomper Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Romeo, Mi Posts: 42	acclimating hedgehogs SPE934 had wondered about the proper acclimations protocals for coastal hedgehogs. I contacted Dr. Konstantin Petrov at the Wood's Hole project in Bulgaria. He recommended against just "throwing" the "hogs" in the tank. They wouldn't do well because they lack the capacity to derive oxygen from the water. He insisted, however, that if a hammock were built to dip the hog into the tank periodically this would replicate the natural environment. However, he did contend that if one were to fashion miniaturized scuba gear to the hog this would allow constant interaction between the tank inhabitants and the hog. Let me know what you discover. Pictures would help us learn about this unique relationship. Thanks Jelly

03/14/2005, 03:16 PM	#6
crzy4reefs Moved On Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: RI Posts: 2,260	kinda early for april fools jokes

03/15/2005, 07:10 AM	#8
delor Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,124	Are "hogs" considered Reef Safe or do they need to go in a species only tank? What kind of lighting and flow do they require? Do they eat pellets or do they only eat live food? __________________ Surviving is different than thriving! Current Tank Info: Current: 90 gal RR reef tank, LED. Old:55gal RR, 440W VHO, 80# LR, LS, 20gal sump, SCWD. 5 gallon nano, 75 gal FOWLR

03/15/2005, 07:58 AM	#9
PoukieBear Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 2,067	Your kidding right?? __________________ Michelle ~Poukie, I'm proud of you for throwing up that cake. ~~Mikey~~ ~You're not drunk if you can lay on the floor without holding on. ~Save the earth, there are no princesses on Mars.

03/15/2005, 07:59 AM	#10
PoukieBear Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 2,067	lol, i forgott about my sig. i think that sums it up! __________________ Michelle ~Poukie, I'm proud of you for throwing up that cake. ~~Mikey~~ ~You're not drunk if you can lay on the floor without holding on. ~Save the earth, there are no princesses on Mars.

03/15/2005, 09:32 AM	#11
Sloth Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,667	I know that porcupines float. Because their spines are hollow. I would imagine hedgehogs would float too. I think you would have to glue the hedgehog to liverock in order to keep it in the water. Now do these things need direct feedings or can you just add phyto to your sump? __________________ I glue animals to rocks.

03/15/2005, 09:37 AM	#12
PoukieBear Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 2,067	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sloth [B] I think you would have to glue the hedgehog to liverock in order to keep it in the water. __________________ Michelle ~Poukie, I'm proud of you for throwing up that cake. ~~Mikey~~ ~You're not drunk if you can lay on the floor without holding on. ~Save the earth, there are no princesses on Mars.

03/15/2005, 10:23 AM	#13
baondayko Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 368	Mine died after three months in the tank. I assume he died because he was missing for some time and my nitrates skyrocketed. Make sure you get a good clean up crew because hedgehog poop is a tad larger than the normal fish poop.

03/15/2005, 11:07 AM	#14
ribs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marlton, NJ Posts: 1,599	Do you guys attach it to the rock by the "foot" or the rump? I just want it to hurry up and turn purple to match the rock.

03/15/2005, 12:13 PM	#15
ribs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marlton, NJ Posts: 1,599	Well, I read this from the International Hedgehog Association website "......with an open top, it must have slippery sides that are at least 12" high and a floor space of at least l6Ã¢â‚¬Â x 24Ã¢â‚¬Â. A 20 gallon aquarium is ideal. It must also have good circulation and be well lit but not exposed to direct sunlight during the daytime. " Would a MAG5 and one of those PAR38 lights Melevs Bulb be considered good lighting/circulation? (Maybe this thread should be moved to the Nano forum.)

03/15/2005, 02:13 PM	#16
baondayko Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 368	I normally attach to the rump. The swimming action of its feet will typically allow you to get rid of at least one powerhead.

03/15/2005, 03:36 PM	#17
delor Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,124	Do they require a FW dip prior to placing in your tank? Can you keep more than one in a tank? How about if they are a mated pair? __________________ Surviving is different than thriving! Current Tank Info: Current: 90 gal RR reef tank, LED. Old:55gal RR, 440W VHO, 80# LR, LS, 20gal sump, SCWD. 5 gallon nano, 75 gal FOWLR

03/15/2005, 07:19 PM	#18
jellystomper Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Romeo, Mi Posts: 42	Thank you ribs for letting us know about the I.H.A. website I was unaware that the male's "sheath" was so far up the "tummy" i thought it was a second nose. As far as attaching the hog to rock, Dr. Petrov strongly urges against it. Although no formal documentation on the matter of "forced isolation" has been available, Dr. Petrov reminds us the hedgehog isn't a sessile creation. It needs the freedom and stimulus ro roam about. Let us know what you discover. Again, pictures would be helpful.

03/15/2005, 07:44 PM	#19
Neurosis Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: KCMO Posts: 399	I'm sitting back following this thread thinking "WOW" jellystomper really seems serious about this! Jellystomper, you aren't by anyway related to Puffer21 are you? __________________ "We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl year after year." --Pink Floyd Current Tank Info: Oceanic 58RR, CoralVue 250w eBallast, Pendant & 14k bulb, EuroReef RS5-2, Mag 9 return, 1" SeaSwirl, Seio 620

03/15/2005, 08:11 PM	#20
ribs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marlton, NJ Posts: 1,599	what is the recommended ratio for inches of habitrail per gallon of saltwater? __________________ Delaware Valley Reef Club - PA NJ DE area.

03/15/2005, 08:24 PM	#21
DASPES Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San diego, CA Posts: 274	Any one else thinking group buy? Also does anyone know if the Red Sea hedgehog is more aggressive? __________________ Damsels...Crunchy on crackers. Current Tank Info: 240 gal mixed reef

03/15/2005, 08:41 PM	#22
silkchaos Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 949	Maybe this is a better creature to cycle a tank with! Think of the number of damsels that could be saved. __________________ Robinson Current Tank Info: 60 Gallon Cube

03/15/2005, 08:42 PM	#23
DASPES Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San diego, CA Posts: 274	And they can be used to remove aglea from the glass. __________________ Damsels...Crunchy on crackers. Current Tank Info: 240 gal mixed reef

03/15/2005, 09:04 PM	#24
unakidney Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1	According to the Hedgehog Environmental Liberation League, hedgehogs can be quite volatile when placed in an alien environment. They must be delicately prepared prior to the "drop". There are no hard-and-fast rules, however the following may serve as a suitable example...place the hedgehog in a supine position on a flat surface with soft lighting (preferably candle light), play soothing and intoxicating music such as one would find on a John Tesh album, open a bottle of vintage pinot noir and pour an ounce in an eye-dropper, with rubber sterile gloves (latex-free) stroke the belly of the hedgehog while whispering romantic sonnets in an Italian accent, using the eye-dropper expel the entire ounce of wine directly into the hedgehog's mouth, when the animal is fully relaxed as evidenced by the release of bowel and bladder content, carefully cradle him/her in your palms and procede to "the drop". Hope this helps.

03/15/2005, 09:21 PM	#25
jellystomper Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Romeo, Mi Posts: 42	Unakidney, thankyou so much for sharing your experience. I've been working with my hogs (Lance, Mellissa, and Shady Daze) for the last several hours. There wasn't much of a response to the music until I switched "Come Flaunt With Me: the Best of John Tesh" to "The Very Serious Business Of Gettin' It On and In General Living by Barry White" The specimens responded with abandon. Mellissa found here own corner as "her" space and Lance and Shady Daze were very persistant in invading said space. Appreciate the help, remember photos will give us a better idea how to proceed. Yours, Jelly